So some minglers may recognize my user name, others maybe not. However I am an Atheist and have full right to be. You may be thinking that I need to be burned to a stake but your ways are not mine. I am a more civilized human being with a significantly above average IQ and won't drop down to the level of others unless its for my own amusement.

This is the story of God as told to me in the many arguments I have had with other people from different beliefs. This is the "story" they have told me so far.

So it all starts at the beginning. 4000BC Approx God creates the world from Nothing. He creates everything! Around this part is the "story" of Adam and Eve. He created the entire planet from nothing but needed one of Adams Ribs to create Eve. Eve takes a bite out of an apple from a forbidden tree (not forgetting she was convinced to do so by a talking snake) and thus Adam and Eve are banished from the garden of Eden which is believed to be in the region of the hanging gardens of Babylon (which might be the garden of Eden?)

So 2000 years later, some 2000BC... God hates the world that Adam and Eve have bred to create. God talks to Noah to build an Ark as God plans to wipe the slate clean and start again. Noah gathers 2 of every animal (fish are also animals so did he get 2 whales?) which totals over a million species multiplied by 2 giving us over 2 million animals (excluding fish because what would be the point, its a flood) on a water tight wooden boat. If he has also supplied food for all 2 million species on board then he would need more than 2 gazelles to feed the lions and that's just one specie that gets fed so he likely needed about 10 million animals to feed them for 40 days and nights and needed relevant and countless pens to prevent animals from killing each other for each others food but I am forgetting, this is a story. So after 40 days and 40 nights and stormy weather at sea on a wooden boat whilst everyone has almost starved to death the rain stops and all hungry animals are let off the boat to find..... food. That would be one huge free for all.

So anyway another 2000 years later we arrive at year 0. This is the story of Jesus Christ. Born to a Virgin, Jesus arrive in a manger. 3 strangers bring 3 gifts of Gold, Frankincense and Myrrh. These gifts are then never heard of or seen again. Not much is told to me by others about Jesus growing up so I don't know what he did but at some point he turns water into wine. Quite a neat party trick but when it mentions in the bible that he "could" move mountains then why didn't he do that instead as that would have been way more impressive. Anyway I'm babbling again, so Jesus had his last supper somehow knowing he was going to die the next day. He is nailed to a cross and bleeds to death after around 4 hours. Although completely dead, they found it necessary to bury him in a cave behind the heaviest boulder that they could find, instead of burying him the ground in a wooden box like we do today. Anyway 3 days later, Jesus lifeless body springs back to life and seemingly the wounds in his hands and feet have healed, and he moves the boulder blocking him that took countless people to move in place and he then travels to almost all around the world before ascending to heaven. He even goes to America where Christianity didn't exist and instead was later home to the ancient Aztecs before being discovered by Christopher Columbus. So after the death of Jesus for our sins (so that god didn't have to do another clean slate) A book is written about the remarkable things that Jesus did and even included things that happened 2000 years ago and 4000 years ago. The book has words written by some or all of Jesus' Disciples. Although in the middle east (near Egypt/Jordan/Syria) Jesus had companions named Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, Peter, Phillip. About 80% of people are called Mohamed over there but none the less Jesus found many Western Europeans to be his disciples.

So what happened then was 2000 years later (about 16 years ago) and then was the story of the Millennium. George Bush becomes President of USA, Vladimir Putin becomes President of Russia, Concorde Crashes in France Killing 113 People, Sydney Hosts Olympics, Belgium/Netherlands host Euro 2000, The Pyrenean Ibex becomes extinct, Personal Home Computers break the 1GHz barrier, 3 Astronauts Reach International Space Station for First Time, Human Genome is Deciphered and the Millennium Bug didn't occur. Not sure which of these will be the next "Story" to enter the Bible for what happened after Jesus, Noah and Adam & Eve but my vote is possibly Putin. Speculation around Jesus' return has been a hot topic somewhat. He has been believed to return on 47 occasions and has failed to show and is still believed to have just 5 more dates in the dairy to return, is this when we all give up hope of his return or do we just estimate a tonne more dates just to keep us going.

So there you have it, the world is just 6000 years old and this is the story of God as told to me. I have only added a few questionable points in there but the whole story is what I have been told by other people. If this story is marginally askew or it is way out then please enlighten your misguided cult.

I leave you with news that we have dinosaur bones aging from between 10 to 15 million years ago on display in museums in the world. Bones that existed before the planet did.

Next Topic is : The Evolution of God

God has been around long before Jesus entered the story books. However even God has evolved. Here's how:

Old Belief: God created the World - The World is Flat

Pythagoras Discovers Earth is Round - Approx 525BC
Aristotle 384BC - 322BC also confirms Earth is round
Christopher Columbus reaches America - 1492

New Belief: God created the World - The World is Round

Galileo Discovers Jupiter - 1610 - Creates Solar System Theory

New Belief: God created the Solar System - The Sun, The Moon & The Stars

Edwin Hubble Discovers Universe - 1929

New Belief: God created the Universe and everything in it

The more we learn with Science, the more God creates but tell me, Who created God?

Time is our greatest Ally at the moment. With this time we can use it to advance our species into the universe and beyond and perhaps answer all lifes questions sooner and develop more questions along the way, before another species does and uses their more advanced knowledge against us, but we need to replace all the time we waste with religious bull crap with some much needed integrated sciences, the sooner the better. Not quite sure how accurate the image is but it can't be far off.

Before you go any further with your ranting about what is written in The Bible why don't you read it,then at least you can level your criticism at what is in the Bible and not hearsay.We already know about your IQ even though the story has changed in the last two weeks.For someone who claims to have a significantly above average IQ I'm surprised you couldn't work out for yourself that there was no need to have whales on the Ark unless Noah was worried that they might get wet with all the rain.For your information there are closer to 10 million species of animals not 1 million.Most of your stories are very inaccurate so your criticism is not based on what is written,merely what you remember from what other people have told you.You will find that the Bible said 3000 years ago that the earth was a sphere and that God created the earth and the sun and the stars and also that he stretched out the universe.These writings have not been changed,so I don't know where you are getting your misinformation from.I am not a Christian and I do not accept many of the things that are in the Bible but at least I read it before I started criticizing it.The Old Testament is more a history of the Jewish people than a religious handbook with instructions from God.With that high IQ of yours you should be able to see that much of what you remember is not accurate.

a person with a significantly above average IQ, who is confident in their
own beliefs and convictions, should see no necessity in disparaging those
beliefs that are held by others....unless as you say "stoops down for your
own amusement".....

as that seems to be the case here, i do believe you
have severely over-rated yourself, lu10nt...

As an Atheist, you pronounce the word "God" more than any believer
i wonder whether you see God in your dream - i mean after thinking about God this much

Just what is supposed to be accomplished by this thread?

Also, just who told the OP the things he says in his opening post?

By the way, am I to take it on faith that a person has significantly above average IQ when I see no evidence of it?

Here is what atheist and Medievalist Tim O'Neill says about the above-posted chart.



Quote Source

This highly gifted individual is either dropping down to the level of others for his own amusement or is trying to enlighten us less intelligent morons about what he believes is written in The Bible.He has previously stated on the Forum that he will not disclose his IQ other than to say that he held the second highest IQ score in his school.I suspect he may have attended a "special school". I think his posts provide ample evidence of his IQ so you don't have to rely on faith alone.

Quite so.

As an Historian myself, I would find it much more interesting and informative, to explore what political and social forces were at work, which led to so many people for so long, mythologizing Imperial Roman cleverness to the point where anyone DOES think that the "dark ages" were a reset to pre-Roman technology and science.

You don't seem to read very well. I never said that whales needed to be on the Ark but since it only specified 2 of every species of animal this is a bit vague and doesn't say 2 of every land animal. Also this is the story told to me through many arguments with others, this isn't just what I remember but what "evidence" other people have tried to convince me of gods existence. So to say that everything I have said is inaccurate is obvious because this is what other people have told me and other peoples interpretations of the bible are clearly wrong. There are likely millions or billions of interpretations and everyone worships their own god in their own way however this is the story so far by other people and if it sounds a bit misinformed then that says a lot about those that have told me these stories.

It was several different people through many arguments. I did a test once at school along with the whole school and came second. Gutted I didn't come first but that was because of my brainy friend Adam, this isn't a joke about Adam and Eve that is his name. Although I do have my certificate upstairs, I only know how to add images on here from google. Difference is, I can see my evidence, I can smell the piece of card it is on, I can touch my evidence and when I do I can hear it as I slightly bend it and if I wanted to, I could taste it. At least my evidence exists. I have seen posts of a fish in a fish bowl, denying the existence of water. This is to somehow relate to us. We do not live in water but on land and are almost always surrounded in several gases known as Oxygen, Nitrogen, Carbon Dioxide. After many science test, I do not see evidence of god in any of these gases. Still waiting for your proof peoples.

It might not have set us back too much or at all, It is however quite a well heard of theory. The fact or point is that if we stop bible bashing and perhaps learn more science that our species could perhaps progress quicker than it is doing. Whether we were set back by the dark ages or not is somewhat irrelevant, but the fact that we are could be doing something about speeding up our development but are too busy bashing bibles pretty much means we are creating our own dark age. Sure science and technology is progressing even whilst I am typing this message but instead of wasting time "trying" to prove gods existence with a perfectly flawed book you could utilize some skills and science knowledge to go out their and find him for sure and obtain undeniable proof of his existence but it is clear that bible bashing is the more "intelligent" way to go about proving how pointless that book is.

It is of course extremely easy to insult another person, I do wish it was that easy for you to provide evidence of the existence of god though instead. So put the Bible down, get your lab coat on and get proving!

How about some quotes to put some light onto the subject.

* * *

Stephen Jay Gould, evolutionary biologist: "Science tries to document the factual character of the natural world and to develop theories that coordinate and explain these facts. Religion, on the other hand, operates in the equally important, but utterly different, realm of human purposes, meanings and values – subjects that the factual domain of science might illuminate but can never resolve."

"Darwin did not use evolution to promote atheism or to maintain that no concept of God could ever be squared with the structure of nature. Rather, he argued that nature's factuality, as read within the magisterium of science, could not resolve, or even specify, the existence or character of God, the ultimate meaning of life, the proper foundations of morality, or any other question within the different magisterium of religion."

"The universe, for all we know, may have an ultimate purpose and meaning . . . and these ultimates may be set by a rational transcendent power legitimately called God, but the resolvable subject matter of science falls into another realm below the purview of such philosophical (and probably unknowable) generalities."

* * *

Kenneth R. Miller, biologist: "My friends and colleagues in nonscientific disciplines will often claim science as their authority. Clearly they believe that scientific inquiry has ruled out the divine. Unfortunately for them, as I will argue, nothing of the sort is true. Their attitude towards religion and religious people are rooted not so much in science itself as in the humanist fabric of modern intellectual life."

* * *

Mark Buchheim, biologist: "Science is indeed a powerful tool, but science is, by default, mute with regard to anything outside the natural world. The late Stephen J. Gould introduced the concept of NOMA, or non-overlapping magisteria, to describe how science and faith co-exist in 'mutual humility.' The point I'm making here is that science, stripped of any philosophical assumptions about the exclusivity of the natural world, can tell us nothing about our faith."

* * *

Mark A. Foster, sociologist: "Because a scientist recognizes the operational limitations of science does not make her or him an atheist."

"Like virtually all scientists (physical, biological, or social), I am a methodological naturalist. However, I am not an atheist (an ontological naturalist). As a methodological naturalist, I reject that science can be used to demonstrate the existence of God. I do not reject that the existence of God can be demonstrated through other means."

* * *

John Wilkins, agnostic philosophy professor: "A final form of naturalism is ontological naturalism. This is the opinion that all that exists is natural. Many scientists are also physicalists. They argue that if we do not need to postulate the reality of non-physical processes for science, then we can conclude that there are no such things. This argument is too quick. The claim that 'if A then B' explains B may be true, but there may also be a C that explains B. Moreover, many things in the physical world are cause by many things together rather than just a few. So, we might say that a physical event is caused by both God and by physical causes, without being logically inconsistent."

* * *

Keith Augustine, atheist philosopher: "In utilizing methodological naturalism, science and history do not assume a priori that, as a matter of fact, supernatural causes don't really exist. There is no conceptual conflict between practicing science or history and believing in the supernatural."

* * *

Quote Sources

Stephen Jay Gould, Rocks of ages: Science and religion in the fullness of life (Ballantine: 1999), p. 4.

Ibid., p. 192.

Ibid., p. 199.

Kenneth R. Miller, Finding Darwin's god (Cliff Street Books: 1999), p. 19.

Mark Buchheim, "Letter to the editor: an educated response", The Collegian Online (University of Tulsa: 2005), http://www.utulsa.edu/collegian/article.asp?article=2569 .

Mark A. Foster, "The Captain's Personal bLog", My Looking-Glass Selves (Sociosphere: 2001), http://editorials.sociosphere.com/arc20020301.html .

John Wilkins, Naturalism: Is it necessary? (TalkOrigins: 1997), http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolphil/naturalism.html .

Keith Augustine, Naturalism (Infidels: 2009), http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/nontheism/naturalism/ .

well,Old Son,according to Debating-Rules,you have raised the Topic,so it is up to you to prove your Point!
So far,you have done as bad a Job at it as those who are trying to prove the opposite!

I think you are missing something important in this line of reasoning.

That is, that the people who are intent on either "bashing" or trying to prove the factuality of tomes such as the Bible, are NOT capable of alternatively moving hard science forward anyway. In a way, you're breaking your own sense of what to do, by taking time out of your own life, to try to push them to do anything else.

Here's a fundamental bit of simple logic for you to consider:

it is not LOGICALLY possible to prove, or to disprove, anything which is defined as magic. That is, you can't use logic OR facts to prove that something which is, by definition, neither logical nor subject to the laws of physics, is or is not whatever someone says it is.

Nor is it possible to go the other way, and prove that magic things are real, using facts or logic, for the same reason.

The reason why ALL "Bible bashing" fails, isn't because the BOOK is immutable, or is impervious to criticism. The reason it doesn't work, is that the people who believe in it's contents do not accept YOUR rules, or other outsiders rules, as having sway over what's in their articles of faith.

And this doesn't mean there's anything fundamentally wrong with them, either. Ironically, people who continually bash their own heads against the walls of any faith, using ideas which have nothing at all to do with the faith, are the ones who's rationality are suspect.

Finally, there are at least as many anti-religion people getting in the way of scientific progress, as there are religious ones. Sometimes even more. So it doesn't make sense, even in a basic numbers sense, to waste energy chasing after the believers.

I don't agree with your analysis Conrad.People are merely pointing out the inconsistencies and inaccuracies in his posts.I don't see anyone trying to prove God exists.Perhaps we are curious to see what revelation someone with "a significantly above average IQ" can cast on a complex subject.

Its quite easy to pick up on some empty spaces that I might leave in a single message and for you to fill in the blanks like you always seem to do and when you talk about inconsistencies and inaccuracies these surely relate primarily to the stories that were told to me because they are illogical and fundamentally flawed and you can keep jeering IQ all you want but it doesn't make you smarter by doing so, nor do is prove the existence of god, nor does it rectify the gaping holes in the "stories" of the bible, nor does it increase your own IQ. I think I am struggling to understand everyone elses points raised by mine, sure I might not have all my facts right, because lets face it, I am not a historian, a scientist, a priest. I am just a young lad working away in a corner shop, working hard to put money in the bank to put food in the stomach to allow me to get to old age and then to occupy a small wooden box 6ft underground. God didn't build the shop, stack the shelves, provide the shop with hungry customers, provide all the stock and he won't provide a small wooden box for my remains. Somehow though he did plan all that by creating Adam and Eve. All life is, is everyone trying to make ends meet and whether we build a new shop or church or science lab, its all down to supply and demand and making ends meet and if people want to waste their time on their knees with their head in their hands then feel free but as always, I have mouths to feed and praying is not going to put a crumb on any of these plates.

lu10nt,

I could be mistaken, but it appears to me that you are trying to pick a fight with people who believe in God's existence. Why you would wish to do so I do not know.