really? I hear this repeated often that our country is so divided,,, as if its a new thing.

I don't find it anymore divisive than ever, I believe instead that there is more social media shining a light on the divisiveness and showing it to the world,, dispelling the 'united' states image.

thinking about it

native Americans probably felt plenty divided,, but their segregated status and struggles allowed others privileges of a superior standing/power

then, slaves and indentured probably felt plenty divided, but their segregated status and struggles allowed others privileges of a superior standing/power

then, negros probably felt plenty divided, but their segregated status and struggles allowed others privileges of a superior standing/power


then, those who felt community should take care of community and labeled 'socialist' felt plenty divided, but their segregated status and struggles allowed others privileges of a superior standing/power


then we had those of Russian descent or 'communists', who felt plenty divided , but their segregated status and struggles allowed others privileges of a superior standing/power


then Mexican immigrants probably felt plenty divided, but their segregated status and struggles allowed others privileges of a superior standing/power



now, its muslim americans who get to feel divided, but their segregated status and struggles allowed others privileges of a superior standing/power





difference, in my observation , is that in the past America was able to budge just a little for ONE group at a time,,, groups took turns with their struggles and social platforms,,, but with the introduction of the first minority president, different groups all felt emblazoned ,, and no longer held to the one at a time rule


suddenly, in the space of a few years, homosexuals, blacks, immigrants, and muslims all started pushing back,, and it was just too much to handle


all those who had an inherited/entitled superior standing, began to feel that standing was being threatened,, of course if all these other people are able to take a few steps closer than what happens to the superiority that has always been the foundation?

its not so much the divisiveness that I believe to be a tipping point here in America, as mush as actual 'equality' and how it impacts those who have relied on divisiveness to be superior

I'm hoping that there is more social media shining a light on the divisiveness and showing what stupidity it is to try and put a stop to top/government down enforcement of equality and diversity and unity.

I mean

And you forgot Asians and women and middle easterners and non slave Africans, and Irish, and orphans, and Germans, and many others (especially religious) in there.

And each time one group is granted special privileges or considerations it ultimately creates a new group to start the process over again.


It's called appeasement so people don't revolt or stop playing the "Okay, I'll pay taxes, and vote to keep you in power" game.


No group has ever held any kind of "one at a time" rule.
At best you are presented each groups problems one at a time in history class (or in the media).
This week/month is black history month, this week/class we are discussing the civil war, this week it's Irish americans, next week wwII the holocaust and japanese concentration camps in america, this week we're discussing native american issues,
this chapter has to do with segregation, next chapter is suffrage.


Immigrants (who built the railroads?) and blacks have always been "pushing back."
"Homosexuals" have been pushing back since at least the 60's.
There have been mosques in this country for a long time.
One of if not the oldest was near where I grew up in Iowa.

At best you are presented with a story in the media, one at a time, then other news agencies chase the ratings that story may generate, and then other groups in that plight try to take advantage of the media coverage to push their agenda.

But they are always working out of the media eye for what they want.


Divisiveness is the only way to prove victimhood.
Victimhood gets people free crap.
People will always cry for free crap.
Oh, I'm a woman and I am seen completely as an equal to men?
Oh, I'm a black woman and I am seen completely as an equal to any other race and men?
Oh, I'm a black lesbian female and I am seen as anyone else, the same, completely equal to any other race, orientation, or gender?
Oh, I'm a black lesbian female and my kid is going to public school while my neighbor can afford to send her kid to private school?! That's not fair! My kid should be afforded the same education that other kids have! It's because I'm black, or female, or a lesbian that they MUST be keeping my kid from the "good" education! It's institutional why I can't get the job to afford to pay for my kids school, gimme a voucher!


Equality is a myth.
Since we're on a dating site it's no different than when men believe women have an advantage in dating and come up with all sorts of "shoulds" to try and "level the playing field" e.g. women pay, women ask out.

There is no equality, there is only a desire to inhibit a perceived competitive advantage in others, while either having no effect on their own or enhancing their own.

You see a lot of black people and women wanting proportional representation.
They make up a certain percentage of the population.
That should be reflected in government, in jobs, in CEO's, in pay, in everything.
But that works both ways.
Should black people be fired from professional sports to make sure there is always a proportional representation of national race makeup?
How about government employees which are disproportionately black and female? Fire them from those jobs and put some of them in private sector jobs which guarantees a lot aren't employed seeing as the government is the biggest employer?
Guy takes off 1,2,3+ months for personal reasons, he gets fired, determined a loser.
Woman takes of 1,2,3+ months for pregnancy, she gets legal protection, paid leave, medical coverage, called courageous, supported as a single mom.

It's always "It's not fair. We want proportional representation. So you have to give up x,y,z and we should just get that."

That's why equality will always fail and divisiveness will always be here.
If anyone is not happy they will always look for something that will make them happy.
And it will always be at the cost of some one or some other group where they can spot any difference no matter how small or pointless.

And people learned hundreds of thousands of years ago if you want something that someone else has then it's best to be a part of a group to go after it.

New whiny groups will always be formed creating divisiveness the more there is a push for equality, especially government enforcement of it.

of course semantically, I am not speaking in terms of numerical equality,, as in IDENTICALNESS

I'm speaking in terms of just , as in business, employment, healthcare, justice systems, housing, opportunity,,etc

people should be judged and treated in a JUST manner instead of being treated inferior simply because of the nationality or race or gender'

and they should not have to be two or three times as good to start, just so they can achieve 'equality' in the face of the history of exclusion they faced previously


but since it hasn't been that way since the founding,,,finding what is just while taking inconsideration where the past injustice has left a demographic,, is harder to attain


I have said it before,, if you had a relay race, and the first five of seven laps the smiths weren't allowed to run, and then suddenly they are able to join

them simply being able to run like everyone else,, doesn't make it just,, without some accommodation for the five laps in which they were left out,, because those five laps will kind of leave them at a five lap disadvantage unless they run five times as fast to make it to the same point

Except that, in real life, the Smiths have already been accommodated, and, yet, they continue to demand more accommodation.

Plus, the race has been re-started, with everyone starting at the same place at the same time.

Now, if the Smiths are losing, then it is because they are slow runners.

no, the smiths weren't accommodated


they were just permitted to join the race

and its a continuous race, it never 're starts'

Meanwhile, back in this universe . . .

yes, this universe

where the families who historically were segregated to urban and impoverished communities didn't suddenly one year have their children upgraded to the suburbia that their racial counterparts were able to enjoy

nor those children born into a historical trend of suburban life made to go live on equal grounds with those in impoverished areas

nor share the networks they were inherently born into




this universe


where decades of inherent superior status bestowed upon those in power wasn't suddenly stripped from them to share with those who had been opporessed, nor were those oppressed suddenly lifted to the equal ststus of those who had the advantage of systemic favoritism to put them in power and KEEP them in power




this universe

where all the images of all the typical roles the inferiors had always been cast to and the historical impoverishment and segregation they endured worked to keep them 'inferior' enough that any criminal amongst them continued to work to reinforce the stereotypes of their imminent danger and need to be controlled and feared collectively




I'm always talking about this universe,, even when the lack of similar experience or exposure makes it hard to believe

There CAN BE no 'perfect' solution to peoples who have been abused, for short times, or for centuries. There can only be partial attempts at restitution or adjustment, combined with some sort of acceptance on all participants' part, that the solutions will be incomplete.

So. No, it is NOT remotely fair, that the people of THIS generation, who's parents were abused and limited, should be told "suck it up and start racing from where you are."

But nor is it remotely fair to tell THIS generation of descendants of abusers, to tell them that they must be artificially set back from the starting gate, to suffer for the sins of their fathers.

There isn't even any way to accurately calculate where a people would have been had they never been abused. So even an attempt to start by granting immediate compensation, followed by ignoring the past, and starting the 'race' from where everyone is, wont make everything right.

It's going to take many generations of suffering all the way around, to reach true equality. But denying that inequality still exists in the mean time, is pig-headed and insistently ignorant, NOT a logical way to guide us towards true healing.

OMG! I can't believe it. I agree with Igor. Scary

Terrifying. I do at least TRY, to always follow wherever logic and facts lead, rather than taking sides for political or other sentimental reasons. I have found that this has the result commonly, that all sorts of people decide that I'm biased on the other side of whichever one they are on. I suppose because so many people ARE biased.

Sometimes I'm accused of being a wild eyed liberal, other times a close-minded conservative. I even had one fellow go on at length in another forum, lambasting me for being a white racist. Most amusing.

I agree on all points, there is no simple solution

and not having a simple solution should not be excuse not to attempt ANY improvements

I agree on all points, there is no simple solution

and not having a simple solution should not be excuse not to attempt ANY improvements

Improvements start at home.

Slightly off the rock, if you all don't mind..

explains why Angela Merkel threw open the doors to Syrian refugees.
found that Aryan supremacy was no longer huh..,huh,
going to drive Germany to new heights of the Bismarck glorious days
"no drive left in them. All they think of is fast cars & chilled beer"

so when steel does not work what does one do?
add some Islamic chrome and get stainless steel.
"why not? look at America, she says; we all started from the same starting block just few decades ago and they are light years ahead.
can you believe it?

"so then we broke the wall and brought in E.Germans
and then what happened?
more chilled beer sloshing around."

"then we tried opening boundaries in Europe
but you know what?
the Greeks and Spaniards wanted us to pick up their tab

with these Syrians we just can't fail
they are after all prohibited from drinking
and al that pork

"the mistake we made was we kicked out the wrong Jews.
could have won the war you know? Einstein for instance. hah?"
--xx--

what Ms. Merkel does not know is
with all those Syrians packed in
could turn into another overcrowded India.
pouf!!

Patriot Sassy will have a field day reading..

I hope this post makes you feel better.

I know I feel better after reading it.

Don't forget, OP, to watch out for the people who are USING the various prejudices and social divisions here, to distract people from their own plan to sneak to our pocketbooks, while we are busy fussing about what equality really means.

THAT is the primary political game going on these days, not any GENUINE struggle for rights or understanding.

Was a light hearted joke.

Yes, it's a courageous post Msharmony has started.
overall yes, diversity brings a richness and a strength in
unexpected ways.

Just wondering exactly what "equality" you are talking about? Is it the "superior power/equality" of rich and powerful blacks like Justice Thomas, Obama, Rev. Jackson etc that have so much more power and wealth over whites living in abject poverty?

Or maybe its the superior power and wealth of Indians like Bobby Jindal or Mexicans like Richardson over poor blacks and whites?

Maybe it's the superior power and wealth of Latinos like Cruz and Rubio over whites and blacks?

Seems to me having a black president shows that "inequality" is a figment of ones own delusions as an excuse why they don't succeed.

Every race that has come to America has had their struggles and by accepting and becoming a part of society has over come those "inequalities".

To blame "whites" for black slavery and making "restitution" is ridiculous.
Slavery in America was initiated by black tribal leaders in Africa.

When tribes would fight each other, the winner would massacre and kill all the males and older woman in the opposing tribe(still goes on today)until one day the tribal leaders found they could make money from selling the defeated instead of hacking them all to death.

So every slave that came to America would have been killed by their rival tribe if they stayed in Africa, they got a new chance to live.

So they got to start in the race at lap 5, but that's better then being hacked to death!

All in All you won't find another country in the world that has more "equality" for ALL their citizens...period.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/367903/white-ghetto-kevin-d-williamson

I would've heartily agreed with your conclusion as in the last line
having worked in 3 continents for few years but for one fact.

The process by which you arrived, Sir, appears flawed. Sounds more like Ted Cruz when he said that he would carpet bomb the Middle East, and find out "if sand can glow in the dark."

now here is the economists point of view:
the people who were moved out of Congo and Ivory Coast were transported on British, Dutch ships. America then had no ships.
sold to farmers in Virginia
who grew cotton & sold to Brits who operated the mills
which reduced the intake of Indian cotton significantly
and the textiles made in UK's mills were sold back to
India (the Brits had invented the 'gin')

similar thing with tobacco
the Imperial Tobacco Company (UK)
still runs their plant in Richmond Virginia
although shareholding pattern may have changed over years.
tobacco production dropped in India
British rolled cigarettes still sell in India
although shareholding pattern may have changed over years.

then some Americans threw the tea chests out to sea
and tea production dropped in India

we could start from here right up here
and go on up to WWII
because the real prize for Germans when they took the Island
would be overnight masters of the vast empire (including India).

my point is maybe less than 5% of Americans were the market
for slaves then.
and in the civil war, Virginia was totally burnt down for her 'sins'
apart from colossal loss of lives on both sides

These days of course no cotton farms not textile mills in US
comes from Bangladesh & China (ans a tiny bit from India)

the Chinese government works them as slave labor; don't last more than 45; i say these cause a friend of mine was in China 10 years ago.