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| Topic: Don't break down in Palm Beach FL | |
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hanging is a death penalty
some have definitely formed an opinion that the cop was in the wrong,,, |
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Edited by
germanchoclate1981
on
Mon 10/26/15 01:16 AM
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a situation that has long concerned me and is hopefully a one off Q. If two people both have 'license' to carry, and if both have a reasonable belief that the other is 'reaching' for their weapon,,, how do we prove who was in the wrong when the other winds up dead? Blanket response: Gnome, how could Raja be not guilty if he didn't identify (he didn't) the van had no lights or identifying features (it didn't) and Mr. Jones didn't discharge his weapon (he didn't)? .... Good question Ms. Moe it does matter even if only one person has a gun. R A I'll give you credit for mention of who will be investigating the shooting itself but that doesn't exactly answer Ms' question. It's relevant because this is what happened here but once again the lack of operational cameras body or dash (Raja was out of uniform and off duty) obscures what would otherwise be an open and shut case. We could have seen and possibly even heard exactly what happened that morning. The person who draws his weapon first isn't necessarily the last man standing or the one who lives to tell the tale. Raja did miss Jones 3/6 times he pulled the trigger. Had Jones intended and acted to defend himself forcibly he could be alive and the officer dead. Things would have been much much more complicated had that happened. For all gun owners, 3am your car breaks down and your waiting along an interstate ramp for a tow truck. You have your legal licensed weapon should anyone try to rob you or worse. Ask yourselves these questions: If a 15 passenger van with tinted windows and no i.d. markings pulls up unannounced a guy in jeans and a t-shirt jumps out and starts questioning you without telling you he's an officer or showing any badge or i.d. and he reaches for his gun what would you do? Would you tell him you have a gun? Would you show your gun? Would you draw and would you fire? Heres the biggie... IF you feeling threatened did fire and hit this dubious character that just showed up when your car was disabled and you had no other recourse when things got hairy, would you have been wrong, criminal, guilty of attempted murder or murder, then of an officer since he was never identiftied to you as such? The answer is the same no matter if he lives or dies. YOU LOSE. What's wrong with this? Unless you're claiming to have witnessed the event, you don't know, that Raja didn't identify himself as law enforcement. Unmarked vehicle, plain clothes, big deal. Raja still has a badge, and more importantly, an identification card, that identify him as a police officer. You have nothing, that says Raja failed to identify himself. You have nothing, that says Jones didn't pull his weapon on the officer. The only facts known, are that Raja was in an unmarked vehicle, and in plain clothes. Jones had a concealed carry permit, and can reasonably be presumed "armed". And somewhere in the wee hours, Raja shot and killed Jones. As you weren't there, you don't know if the shooting was unjustified. As I wasn't there, I don't know that it was justified. So yeah. It's a big fat IF, if Raja is guilty of an actual crime. Perhaps, when the investigation is completed, it'll have been determined to be a case of NHI. So given your response, any registered gun owner can be presumed 'armed and dangerous' by an unidentified police officer, shot and killed and you're ok with that because he has a badge? We do know that Jones didn't fire his gun, and it wasn't until the FBI was mentioned that we learned he at least owned a legal registered gun. 1. You're not smart enough to think for me. So, don't even try. I won't presume to think for you. 2. You're speculating, that Raja didn't verbally identify himself as law enforcement. You're speculating, that Raja didn't show his law enforcement credentials; badge and police identification card. 3. Any person with a concealed carry permit, IS presumed "armed". That is, after all, the whole point of having the permit. To be armed. 4. A permit to carry, doesn't exempt anyone from following commands of law enforcement. 5. I didn't speculate on Raja's guilt, or innocence. Matter of factly, I clearly stated, that if Raja is indeed guilty, as determined in a court of law, he should be put to death. Just like any other murderer. Might wanna work on your reading comprehension skills. 
But, since you wanna play the speculation game... With the evidence and testimony you've provided, Jones' death is clearly a case of suicide by cop. Wait! With the evidence and testimony you've provided, Jones sucked so badly as a drummer, Raja was clearly doing a favour for society. You won't presume to think for me but you'll attempt to speak for me in the very next sentence... I say speak because you obviously didn't think that through. As for reading comprehension, or the lack thereof, if you read what you're claiming where I'm thinking for you it was actually a QUESTION I was asking you. So given your response, any registered gun owner can be presumed 'armed and dangerous' by an unidentified police officer, shot and killed and you're ok with that because he has a badge? Also you seemed to have missed the 'dangerous' in 'armed AND dangerous'. Those words arranged as such in a phrase over police radio or other comms change the situation more than just an officers awareness. A person can be armed with a fly swatter or a butter knife but that doesn't equate to being warned by dispatch that the person is 'armed and dangerous'. I'm not speculating anything. The local media released the details of the case that have been released so far. Jones didn't fire his weapon. They didn't say in certain terms that the gun had even been drawn or even loaded for that matter. We do know that this wasn't a police cruiser, or a vehicle that could be ascertained to be a genuine police vehicle removing any doubt of Raja's status as a genuine law enforcement official. Jones was on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck, if he wasn't high or drunk he would have no reason to draw his weapon, if it was even on his person which we also do not definitively know. The officer could have called in a cruiser or set flares to avoid anyone else colliding with Jones or his car. That's pretty much protocol for any accident or disabled vehicle on or near a busy curvy or high speed road. To speculate that Jones would draw or reach for his weapon knowing that Raja was an officer that WAS there to help him or keep him safe is, well, pretty damn stupid. Had he wanted to rob assault or shoot Raja, he'd be stranded at the scene of the crime and his only means of escape a fifteen passenger van. I can't see that happening. If Jones had his gun drawn because he didn't know Raja was an officer, plain casual clothing no badge no markings or lights on the van as it was, what would make Raja skip defusing the whole situation by saying, "Look, I'm an officer with this department, I called it in so my dispatches know where I am and have your plates and physical description. I'm off duty so I'm going to show you my badge and no one has to get hurt. I'm here to help." This is exactly the type of de-escalation that officers are trained to do. Had Raja said or done so what possible reason would Jones have to shoot (which he never did) or keep his gun pointed at Raja? 0. Nobody is discussing what Jones did to Raja because those would have been the first details at the first press release and the department would have no reason to keep the family in the dark for 38 hours. They would have put up a name and a picture immediately and shown whatever wounds Raja sustained in the fight/shooting. We would have gotten the 'regrettably things got out of hand and officer Raja did what was necessary to defend himself' and that isn't something police or sheriff's departments forget to do. |
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