"I just know that nothing I say will change the persons mind. So it's just better to not say anything so that neither of us have to get frustrated."

Brilliant.

Abra's & Feral's views are so fundamentally different....

Red wrote:
”Going over scripture, apparently, get us nowhere. So I've come to understand that when one offers to 'review' scripture with you, they are actually offering only their opinoin of a spripture of their choosing.”

It’s also a very underhanded way to drag people into reading the scripture.

What Feral seems to be unable to comprehend is that I’ve been there and done that. For me it’s beating a dead horse. However, just out of curiosity I thought I’d see if she had a rational explanation. I’m sure she doesn’t.

Spider’s explanation is totally useless. It doesn’t “explain” anything. All it claims is that God is playing games and tries to justify the act by claiming that even God will play by his own rules. This actually falls flat on it’s face because if God actually did play by his own rules then he would be guilty of having murdered all of humanity in the Great Flood and therefore he broke his own commandant, “Thou shalt not kill”.

So your “fair and just God” idea just sank to the bottom of the sea Spider. It doesn’t wash. It’s doesn’t hold water. Not to mention that if you seriously think about it it’s a rather silly idea since the whole idea of sin is the idea of displeasing God. Why should any sin need to be “punished”? That’s a sick perverted manmade idea. God could simply forgive. Period. Done deal. The idea that he would have to come and punish himself to pay for the sins of man is an utterly absurd notion.

In short, it’s completely unacceptable to me. If that’s the answer, then I denounce the story once again as being nothing more than petty mythology. Your explanation merely confirms my original conclusions.

Message wrote:
“Abra's & Feral's views are so fundamentally different.... “

I agree.

However, please keep in mind that I’m not the one who is trying to change her views.

SHE is the one who is claiming that I’m lost can’t see the light.

I seriously couldn’t care less what she believes.

Abra - just to be clear, I was not criticizing the fact of - nor motive for - discourse.

"Spider’s explanation is totally useless. It doesn’t “explain” anything. All it claims is that God is playing games and tries to justify the act by claiming that even God will play by his own rules. This actually falls flat on it’s face because if God actually did play by his own rules then he would be guilty of having murdered all of humanity in the Great Flood and therefore he broke his own commandant, “Thou shalt not kill”. "

Abracadabra,

That commandment was given by God to men, not by men to God. God sustains the life of every living thing, if God dedided He didn't want something to live, that is His right. I am just amazed at the completely illogical and misguided thinking you posted. As soon as your question is answered, you run for cover with a logical fallacy. If a parent gave their child a 10:00 PM bedtime, the parent DOES NOT have to go to bed at 10:00 PM. That rule is for the child, the adult has earned the right to stay up as late as the parent desires. Sorry, but your logic is not logical.

I understand Message.

I just felt a desire to clarify my position.

I’m not trying to change Feral’s views on anything.

But I thought maybe if I give her a shot at changing mine, and then show her that her explanation doesn’t sway me, (I’m pretty sure it won’t unless she comes up with something really original that I’ve never heard before), then maybe she’ll accept that it didn’t work and finally quit trying?

Each to their own.

Be peaceful, and calm, in your beliefs.


Re-instating your own beliefs, either strengthens them, or requires you to convince yourself.



I personally believe that None of this universe was created by a god...and I'm convinced.

Spider wrote:
“Sorry, but your logic is not logical”

I beg your pardon sir,

First you say that God came to pay for man’s sins because he’s fair and just and wants to show that he plays by his own rules.

And then you counter that by using the analogy that a parent has no need to go by their own rules?

You just shot your own logic in the foot Spider.

Seriously, I don't care what you believe Spider. More power to you! Your rationale just doesn't make any sense to me. That's all I need to say.

Just minutes ago, someone fell or jumped from a freeway overpass I was walking over. (I didn't see it,) Onto the freeway below. Paramedics giving CPR right now.

oh!

I looked down at the body and said 'that could be me' - or any of my loved ones. Which is the same words from this guy I spoke to on the next corner, who was probably the last to see him alive. Said the guy was pacing back and forth, he didn't think anything of it, and the was just gone from the bridge - he feels guilty like he should have read his mind and stopped him.

sorry to put this here - it just happened, this is where I was talking/reading....

san diego news helicopters....

whoa,that is so sad...

Just because someone is pacing back and forth on a bridge doesn’t mean they are thinking about jumping off it. I mean, there’s no way anyone could have fore-guessed what might be about to occur.

So sad.

Abra said:

I’d like to know who was paid by Jesus’ death and why was it necessary for an all-powerful God to pay anyone for the sins of man?

The Presentation of the King (The Book of Matthew)
The promise (convenant) to Abraham was that "in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed: (Gen.( 12:3) Jesus Chist, the savior of the world, is "the son of Abraham" (1:1). However, He is also "the son of David"; and as David's direct decendant, He is qualified to be Israel's King. The magi know that the "King of the Jews" (2:2) has been born, and come to worship Him. John the Baptist, the messianic forerunner, who breaks the four hundred years of prophetic silence, also bears witness of Him (Mal. 3:1) The sinlessness of the King (Christ) is proved when He overcomes the satanic temptations to disobey the will of the Father.

The Proof of the King
Authenticating His words and works are the empty tomb, resurrection, and appearances, all proving that Jesus Christ is indeed the prophesied Messiah, the very Son of God. Christ's final ministry in Judea (beginning in 19:1)reaches a climax at the cross as the King willingly gives up His life to redeem sinful persons. Jesus endures awesome human hatred in the great demonstration of divine love(Rom. 5:7,8) His perfect sacrafice is acceptable, and this gospel concludes with his glorious resurrection.

As for God.....He knew all that was going to happen....long before he sent Christ His Son to earth. Which does as others have said show how much God really loved us.

Red

I would be happy to oblige......and I actually did reference what you said in another part of this blog....

The one here you were making all the references to she being God in the Bible was so far off from what it really was....but I did honestly I thought make a comment to you...

And God does not have a gender is neither make nor female....He is GOD

And again folks just telling it like it is...what you do with it is totally your choice.

Thank you for taking the time to type in the story Feral. I’m completely familiar with how the story goes. I didn’t see the answer to my question in there anywhere. But thanks anyway.

Our time here is short. Seeing what I saw makes me feel (among other things!) thankful to be alive - this breath is precious, this moment sacred.

<<<<<Mass>>>>>>

Breathe deeply.............

Another theory: Jesus spoke the highest truth his listeners could understand. Even as it was, he was spurned and denigrated. He knew they were stuck (held back) in the Judaic interpretation of sin, and offered the 'payment' metaphor to help them move forward. He wasn't lying - it was made to be true.

I don't believe this, but its an interesting idea.