The USA has lots of paranoid people. So, what's new?

"Are we bending over backwards to do business with China ..." IV

"knowing they are violating copyright and counterfeiting trademarks, etc?" IV

"I am not a believer that they are capitalists ..." IV

"or are moving away from Maoist ideology." IV

"The Art and Science of Military Deception"

His point comes from his belief in the modern progressive narrative that the Roman empires willingly transformed into diverse societies. According to these theories they were open borders people and welcomed other cultures with open arms and were much better off for it. They didn't fall... they progressed... haha..

It had nothing to do with military defeats... an over taxed failing economy or pi$$ poor governance..

", is that the people who indulge in that bedtime nightmare story game, know nothing of actual Roman history." IF

Not even REMOTELY correct.

I really wish people wouldn't claim to know what's in my mind without first at least reading what I say.

No, the reason I poo-poo every version of "Watch out! It's Just Like the Fall Of The Roman Empire!" crap, is that the people who indulge in that bedtime nightmare story game, know nothing of actual Roman history.

Most obvious, but always ignored fact:

The Roman civilization as an identifiable political entity/state, lasted from about 750 BC, until about 1450 AD. That's OVER TWO THOUSAND YEARS. The United States can only claim to have existed for about 250 years.

If you want to "play tough," and just talk about the Roman Empire itself, that ran from about 27BC, to 1450. Still almost 1500 years.

If you want to play tougher still, and talk JUST about the time it took for the Empire to go from it's furthest extent, to the official end of the Western half of the Empire, that would be from about 200 AD to about 450. That is a little closer to matching the US, but then the US didn't reach IT'S peak, until about 1945, so the comparison is still off by quite a bit, just in time alone.

More important in playing the "OMG Roman Empire" game legitimately, you have to compare like with like, one aspect at a time, AND you have to demonstrate clearly that the particular item you choose to point to, can be shown to have directly caused the "fall" you are talking about. I've never ever seen anyone do that. Instead, they all select something from NOW, which they already don't like, and then say "the Romans did that too, and now they are GONE!!!" Usually, the item they select to point to, actually ISN'T something that the Romans dealt with, so it's silly on it's face.

The history of PLAYING the "OMG Fall of the Roman Empire" game, goes back the beginnings of the peoples who destroyed it, even as they deeply admired it. The reasons why people still play the game, are as complex as the true story of it's decline. Ironically, most of the people who play the game, are actively doing some of the very things that did contribute to the Empire's decline, such as declaring that some significant subset of the current nations populace should be seen as enemies. That, or focusing on one very small aspect of the health of the entity, while ignoring the overall health of it.

What DID kill the Roman Empire? Everything it did. As with individual people, many of the same things which caused the Empire to reach it's zenith in territory controlled, were the things which tore it apart. Egotism of the leaders, greed, the fact that it DID become an Empire, failure to face up to the natural and logical consequences of the methods it chose in order to achieve seeming greatness to begin with. That sort of thing.

LTme:

I disagree with some of what you've said about China. As for the official subject of this thread, the US, whatever we are talking about there has become rather confused.

I stand by my earlier comment, that the opening post had too much error in it to make it possible to debate or discuss directly. And again, I have no patience with the "let's give up" routine, intrinsic to playing the "It's BROKEN!" mantra.

Instead, I WILL affirm that I also find the U.S. to be seriously off course nowadays. I do think that some of what the OP complained about, are real concerns which need to be intelligently addressed. I do NOT find that anyone in a current significant leadership position has enough things right, that I would energetically want to put them in charge of the whole shebang.

China: I firmly disagree that they "graciously" hosted the Olympics. They did not. They presented the Olympics with a place to compete. But in order to do so, they made temporary huge changes to a single area or group of areas in China. They did NOT allow free roaming by the visiting nations. They had to do a lot of things to make their environment safe to HAVE the Olympics there.

As for China's dramatic economic progress, that's been a very uneven record as well. They still do not permit their people to organize in any way, to decide the course of their local economies, or to decide upon things like safety for workers, or decent working conditions. It's still a top-down society there. They still manipulate the currency markets in order to arrange favorable trade exchanges. They still benefit tremendously from the US refusal to require goods manufactured overseas, to be made with the same standards as we require here. In essence, China has benefited from American refusal to recognize how capitalism actually does and doesn't work, rather than because they have been creative and industrious.

They still steal intellectual property from the rest of the world, in order to cater to the desires of the amoral capitalists who seek only cheap labor, and higher profit margins.

Admiring that nation for these things is a huge mistake.