I am amused by these gun grabbing arguments.

The vast majority of these atrocities are taking place in soft targets.. ie.. gun free zones..

Schools.. theaters.. churches...

I don't recall anyone shooting up a 'Gun Nut' NRA meeting...

I wonder why that is?

Chicago.. Baltimore.. so on and so forth.. strict gun laws... does that stop the violence? Ughhh.. the statistics don't show that.

I just have to ask.. did prohibition stop people drinking alcohol? NO

Did it create a very wealthy and connected criminal class? Ask the Kennedys.

How about that war on drugs? Has prohibition stopped people from selling or indulging in drugs? NO

Has that led to a wealthy and connected criminal class? See Mexican Drug Cartels... or the Colombians that ran South Florida..

Will banning all weapons stop people from selling or buying guns? NO

Will it lead to a very wealthy and connected criminal class? See Mexican Drug and then Weapons dealing cartels..

Isn't it ironic that the gun grabbers want a ban, but are they smart enough to realize that their love of open borders will allow a steady flow of illegal weapons pouring in from Mexico?

You can't stop people from drinking.. doing drugs.. or buying weapons..

But what it does create are wealthy criminals that won't hesitate to use those weapons. And you damn sure can bet they won't hesitate because no one else will have any.. including you gun grabbing nimrods.

And in conclusion... More people die year after year because of drunk drivers than hand guns...

But keep beating that gun ban drum and love you some open borders..

there is really no way to tell, I have been assaulted twice in life, never with a gun, and never had a gun, and everyone walked away to see another day

pro gun advocates will pick statistics and time frames to show how useful and necessary guns are,, gun opponents will select time frames and numbers to show how destructive they have been

I believe in more impoverished areas, where people are more desperate, it is likely more dangerous to 'walk the streets',,,,

but those who arent impoverished can be hyper paranoid and armed with a gun are very unpredictable when they may fire because they are angered or feel a 'threat'


yearly 100000 people are shot ,about thirty percent die,,,

so in a country with 300,000,000 . its a small section dying from guns or being shot with guns

Demographically Speaking; the high crime ratio and mass population = what you'll read and hear about on any given evening news segment about violent crimes in America. I live in rural/small town central KS {heartland of America}...where we are most commonly owners of hunting weapons and keep them at ready access for varmints {high ratio of rabid animals in the hot summer months} and for putting wild game on our tables.

But we do suffer from the repetitive number of 'METH LABS/DRUG BUSTS' for the pure number of acres per law enforcement is out of balance. And often some of those 'druggies' wander into homes that they are just too 'FOGGED UP MENTALY' to understand that they are now staring at a barrel of a loaded weapon that will end their life! **BANG** another druggy snuffed out because they just couldn't understand 'HALT/STOP'...

From RebelArchers link & post >>>


Ergo...the NRA loves to quote stats & data; and yet when the stats & data prove something else then it's all just JUNK SCIENCE and never should be taken at value. Or better yet...to quote something 'COMMON SENSE' as a factual given when the flip side of that 'COMMON SENSE' will equally prove they're thinking and BS as just more MANURE that they spread!

Hmmm...he had clarity of thought...spoke with victims while reloading - considered not going through with his mission - and confessed to the killing of 9 and wounding of 3 others!
There won't be a 'INSANITY' plea filed by his attorney's NOW!


http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/charleston-church-shooting/dylann-roof-almost-didnt-go-through-charleston-church-shooting-n378341

This boy wasn't making a statement about gun control...this boy wasn't making a statement about the side effects of a prescription drug, this boy swan't making a statement on religion....this boy was filled with hate and acted on that hatred.

Why it will be the only thing really discussed, the "why" doesn't really matter.

Can a drug make you act aggressively - sure. Does the drug give you a philosophy or agenda - nope.

Does a gun give you the ability to kill more easily -sure (which is the sole purpose of this tool). Does a gun give you a philosophy or agenda - nope.

Does hatred make you act aggressively and give you the ability to kill more easily - sure. Does hatred give you a philosophy and an agenda - SURE!

He wasn't "sick" in praying with them for however long before opening fire. He went there with the intention of doing what he did, he was prepared. He sat with them mustering the courage to act, something he would not have had to do had the medicine caused to his actions.

In summary, guns didn't cause this, medicinal side effects didn't cause this. The intentional acts of a young white man DID cause this.

And to the credit of the comments of Invictus - the boy didn't target a gang of "thugs" who would have had the guns and the moxy to fight back. He chose a "soft" target so he would encounter little chance of failure in acting on his hatred of blacks.

It would be interesting to know how this hatred grew. He obviously has a very low IQ and his positions are usually learned from others.

EXACTLY --- what quite a bit of the prior posts were about;

Tomato provide the info about Dylann's prior prescription drug abuse and issues! And the conversation flowed from there!

seems the Idiot is another Charles Manson!

http://www.youngcons.com/dylann-roof-tells-police-why-he-killed-9-people-and-the-reason-is-horrible/

But now,of course,we take the Firearms away from all the Lawabiding Citizens!
We always do it with Drunk-Driving,taking Vehicles from sober Drivers!
Makes sense!

pretty nasty Stuff!
Wonder if he was on it legally,or if he was using the Stuff Illegal-like!

We can't agree on gun control.

We can agree that our mental healthcare needs improvement.

NRA offered to help fund mental healthcare in U.S. if they stopped trying to ban magazines/firearm accessories/put further restrictions on average citizens.

If politicians wanted to help decrease gun violence, leave guns alone, and go after mental healthcare. Everybody wins.

Ordinarily I would take the time to fix all the script screw-ups before posting but this was a little long for that. I did try to insert the images....

So let's put the blame where it lays.... at BIG PHARMA, crooked politicians, and the DC lobbyists

Guns are only a tool! And regulations are only as good as enforcement..... and they only selectively enforce the laws and regulations already on the books when an "agenda" is called for

WND Exclusive
Big list of drug-induced killers
Charleston church shooter may be just the latest


As WND has reported, Charleston church shooter Dylann Roof was a known drug user who was caught with the powerful mind-altering narcotic Suboxone when apprehended by police during an incident on Feb. 28.
Suboxone is used to treat addiction to opioid drugs such as heroin. It has a host of adverse side effects including irrational, violent behavior.

According to a data set of U.S. mass shootings from 1982-2012 prepared by Mother Jones magazine, of 62 mass shootings carried out by 64 shooters, the majority of the shooters (41) were noted to have signs of possible mental illness - the precise kinds of mental illnesses that psychotropic medications are prescribed for.
It is a well-documented fact that in the 1980s, a shift occurred in the direction of treating the mentally ill. Rather than institutionalize them, the preferred method was to "mainstream" them, encouraging them to function in society while being treated with a mind-numbing array of new anti-depressants being developed by the pharmaceutical industry.

WND has compiled a list of killings committed by persons who had used mind-altering drugs or recently come off of them at the time of their crimes:

Bradley Stone, a former Marine in suburban Philadelphia, shot and killed his ex-wife Nicole Stone, her mother and her grandmother, and he "chopped" Nicole's sister, her husband and their 14-year-old daughter to death with an ax. Nicole Stone's 17-year-old nephew was the lone survivor of the three-home massacre. Stone was being treated for mental health issues. After the six slayings, he committed suicide with a lethal mixture of depressants, antidepressants and schizophrenia medications, his autopsy revealed. Police found Bradley Stone's body in the woods a week before Christmas, 2014, a day after he killed his six victims, police told the New York Daily News.

Aaron Ray Ybarra, 26, of Mountlake Terrace, Washington, allegedly opened fire with a shotgun at Seattle Pacific University in June 2014, killing one student and wounding two others. Ybarra said then he "feels he identifies with one of the Columbine killers, whom he identified as Eric Harris," counselor Deldene J. Garner wrote later in a chemical dependency assessment filed in Edmonds Municipal Court. Ybarra had been referred to the counselor following his arrest in July 2012 for driving drunk on an Edmonds sidewalk. He reported "being diagnosed with Psychosis and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder," the report said. On occasion, "voices scared him," Ybarra told the counselor. He said he'd been prescribed with Prozac and Risperdal to help him with his problems.

Jose Reyes, the Nevada seventh-grader who went on a shooting rampage at his school in October 2013 was taking a prescription antidepressant at the time, and had told a psychotherapist that he was teased at school, the Associated Press reported. Reyes, 12, opened fire Oct. 21 at Sparks Middle School, killing a teacher and wounding two classmates before committing suicide. His doctor had prescribed 10 mg of Prozac once daily, according to police reports. Toxicology reports indicated that at the time of autopsy the suspect had a generic form of Prozac, Fluoxetine in his system consistent with the prescription given.




Adam Lanza, the 20-year-old shooter who killed 20 students and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School on Dec. 14 in Newtown, Connecticut, had been prescribed several psychiatric drugs, including Fanapt, a controversial anti-psychotic medicine, the Business Insider reported. "Fanapt is one of a many drugs the FDA pumped out with an ability to exact the opposite desired effect on people: that is, you know, inducing rather than inhibiting psychosis and aggressive behavior," Business Insider reported.

Reno Hospital shooter Alan Oliver Frazier, 51, killed his doctor and wounded one other person before killing himself in December 2013 in Reno, Nevada. Frazier took Prozac but didn't like being dependent on the medication and would sometimes stop using it, his ex-girlfriend told the Associated Press.

Navy Yard shooter Aaron Alexis sprayed bullets at office workers and in a cafeteria on Sept. 16, 2013, killing 13 people including himself. Alexis had been prescribed Trazodone by his Veterans Affairs doctor. Trazadone is a generic antidepressant that is seldom used anymore to treat depression but is widely prescribed for insomnia, experts told the Washington Post.




Aurora movie theater shooter James Holmes killed 12 people and wounded 58 in the July 20, 2012, tragedy in Aurora, Colorado. Thirty-eight days before the attack, the psychiatrist treating suspect James Holmes told a police officer that her patient had confessed homicidal thoughts and was a danger to the public, according to court documents unsealed in April 2013 and reported on by the Denver Post. The psychiatrist, Dr. Lynne Fenton, also told the officer that Holmes had stopped seeing her and had been threatening her in text messages and e-mails, the documents state. The officer, Lynn Whitten, responded by deactivating Holmes' key-card access to secure areas of University of Colorado medical campus buildings, according to search-warrant affidavits. Police found medications in his apartment, including sedatives and the anti-anxiety drug clonazepam. They also found the antidepressant sertraline, the generic version of the antidepressant Zoloft.

A 20-year-old woman accused of opening fire and shooting three people in a Gig Harbor, Washington, grocery was charged with murder in October 2012, after one of the victims died. Laura Sorenson appeared in Pierce County Superior Court, where prosecutors filed a charge of first-degree murder against her two months after the death of David Long, 40. Sorenson is accused of walking into the Peninsula Market just before 1 p.m. on Aug. 11, 2012 and firing at customers until she was tackled to the ground. Witnesses told police that Sorenson said something about "killing" people prior to pulling out a revolver from her purse and firing four to five shots. After the shooting, Sorenson revealed to detectives she has a mental condition and is on medication, court documents said, adding she wanted to kill herself and wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone else first, the Komo News reported.

The mentally ill gunman who killed a worker and wounded several others at a University of Pittsburgh Medical Center psychiatric hospital in March 2012 had previously threatened staff at an affiliated hospital with a baseball bat. Medical records and other information show 30-year-old John Shick, held a grudge, believing he had misdiagnosed illnesses ranging from a bad ankle to pancreatitis to erectile dysfunction, Allegheny County District Attorney Stephen Zappala Jr. said. Shick twice went to UPMC Shadyside hospital in February with the bat and threatened the staff, and yet Pittsburgh police were not called, Zappala told the Associated Press. Zappala said investigators hadn't yet determined why Shick targeted UPMC's Western Psychiatric Institute and Clinic, where he was treated twice after he was kicked off the Duquesne University campus for harassing female students with repeated requests for dates. At the second visit, a clinic doctor urged Shick to resume medication for schizophrenia - after his mother told doctors he stopped taking it months before. Shick walked out and skipped a follow-up appointment in December." His contacts at UPMC began to get more serious and disturbing after that," said Deputy District Mark Tranquilli, who handles homicide cases for Zappala. In Shick's apartment, investigators found 43 drugs used to treat 20 conditions, from anti-depressants to medicines for intestinal worms.

Mohamed Merah fell in a hail of bullets in a March 22, 2012 raid after shooting seven people at a Jewish school in Toulouse, France, after telling police who sought his surrender that he regretted not "going back to the Jewish school" which would have enabled him to kill more children, according to comments reported by the French newspaper Journal du Dimanche. Merah had been prescribed psychotropic drugs and sleep aides "to calm his stress," a doctor said.

It was reported in March 2012 that Staff Sgt. Robert Bales had killed 15 innocent civilians in Afghanistan, a horrific crime that men in his unit said went beyond the pale even for someone suffering from PTSD. It was later revealed by his wife that Bales was being treated with anti-depressants. She and her husband were both on antidepressants, "as is the rest of the army population. okay maybe not everyone. Just the ones that have been in for several years now, the ones who will actually admit when things are really screwed up," she told the Daily Beast.


Anders Breveik of Norway spent a year playing "World of War Craft" and was being treated with anti-depressants.
Anders Breivik of Norway spent a year playing "World of War Craft" and was being treated with a cocktail of pharmaceuticals.

Anders Breivik, known as Norway's "laughing gunman," killed 92 people, many of them children, in 2011. Norway officials amassed pages and pages of analysis of the horrific crime, but almost nobody noticed that the smirking Breivik was taking large quantities of mind-altering chemicals, the Daily Mail reported. In this case, the substances are an anabolic steroid called stanozolol, combined with an amphetamine-like drug called ephedrine, plus caffeine. The authorities and most of the media were more interested in his non-existent belief in fundamentalist Christianity, the Mail reported.

Anabolic steroids were also used heavily by David Bieber, who killed one policeman and tried to kill two more in Leeds, England, in 2003, and by Raoul Moat, who last summer shot three people in Northumberland, killing one and blinding another. Steroids are strongly associated with mood changes, uncontrollable anger and many other problems.

Jeff Weise, culprit of the 2005 Red Lake High School shootings, had been taking "antidepressants."

Columbine mass-killer Eric Harris was taking Luvox - like Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor and many others, a modern and widely prescribed type of antidepressant drug called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, or SSRIs. Harris and fellow student Dylan Klebold went on a hellish school shooting rampage in 1999 during which they killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 24 others before turning their guns on themselves. Luvox manufacturer Solvay Pharmaceuticals concedes that during short-term controlled clinical trials, 4 percent of children and youth taking Luvox - that's 1 in 25 - developed mania, a dangerous and violence-prone mental derangement characterized by extreme excitement and delusion.


Eric Harris
Columbine shooter Eric Harris

Patrick Purdy went on a schoolyard shooting rampage in Stockton, California, in 1989, which became the catalyst for the original legislative frenzy to ban "semiautomatic assault weapons" in California and the nation. The 25-year-old Purdy, who murdered five children and wounded 30, had been on Amitriptyline, an antidepressant, as well as the antipsychotic drug Thorazine.

Kip Kinkel, 15, murdered his parents in 1998 and the next day went to his school, Thurston High in Springfield, Ore., and opened fire on his classmates, killing two and wounding 22 others. He had been prescribed both Prozac and Ritalin.

In 1988, 31-year-old Laurie Dann went on a shooting rampage in a second-grade classroom in Winnetka, Ill., killing one child and wounding six. She had been taking the antidepressant Anafranil as well as Lithium, long used to treat mania.

In Paducah, Kentucky, in late 1997, 14-year-old Michael Carneal, son of a prominent attorney, traveled to Heath High School and started shooting students in a prayer meeting taking place in the school's lobby, killing three and leaving another paralyzed. Carneal reportedly was on Ritalin.

In 2005, 16-year-old Jeff Weise, living on Minnesota's Red Lake Indian Reservation, shot and killed nine people and wounded five others before killing himself. Weise had been taking Prozac.

47-year-old Joseph T. Wesbecker, just a month after he began taking Prozac in 1989, shot 20 workers at Standard Gravure Corp. in Louisville, Kentucky, killing nine. Prozac-maker Eli Lilly later settled a lawsuit brought by survivors.

Kurt Danysh, 18, shot his own father to death in 1996, a little more than two weeks after starting on Prozac. Danysh's description of own his mental-emotional state at the time of the murder is chilling: "I didn't realize I did it until after it was done," Danysh said. "This might sound weird, but it felt like I had no control of what I was doing, like I was left there just holding a gun."

John Hinckley, then age 25, took four Valium two hours before shooting and almost killing President Ronald Reagan in 1981. In the assassination attempt, Hinckley also wounded press secretary James Brady, Secret Service agent Timothy McCarthy and policeman Thomas Delahanty.



Andrea Yates

Andrea Yates, in one of the most heartrending crimes in modern history, drowned all five of her children - aged 7 years down to 6 months - in the family bathtub near Houston. Insisting inner voices commanded her to kill her children, she had become increasingly psychotic over the course of several years. At her 2006 murder re-trial (after a 2002 guilty verdict was overturned on appeal), Yates' longtime friend Debbie Holmes testified: "She asked me if I thought Satan could read her mind and if I believed in demon possession." And Dr. George Ringholz, after evaluating Yates for two days, recounted an experience she had after the birth of her first child: "What she described was feeling a presence - Satan - telling her to take a knife and stab her son Noah," Ringholz said, adding that Yates' delusion at the time of the bathtub murders was not only that she had to kill her children to save them, but that Satan had entered her and that she had to be executed in order to kill Satan.Yates had been taking the antidepressant Effexor. In November 2005, more than four years after Yates drowned her children, Effexor manufacturer Wyeth Pharmaceuticals quietly added "homicidal ideation" to the drug's list of "rare adverse events."



Christopher Pittman murdered his grandparents at age 12 and was sentenced to 30 years, a punishment his defenders said was excessive for someone his age who was being given heavy doses of anti-depressants leading up to the shooting.

12-year-old Christopher Pittman struggled in court to explain why he murdered his grandparents, who had provided the only love and stability he'd ever known in his turbulent life. "When I was lying in my bed that night," he testified, "I couldn't sleep because my voice in my head kept echoing through my mind telling me to kill them." Christopher had been angry with his grandfather, who had disciplined him earlier that day for hurting another student during a fight on the school bus. So later that night, on Nov. 28, 2001, he shot both of his grandparents in the head with a .410 shotgun as they slept, then burned down their South Carolina home, where he had lived with them. "I got up, got the gun, and I went upstairs and I pulled the trigger," he recalled. "Through the whole thing, it was like watching your favorite TV show. You know what is going to happen, but you can't do anything to stop it." Pittman's lawyers would later argue that the boy had been a victim of "involuntary intoxication." They said his 30-year sentence was excessive for someone his age and claimed the "heavy doses of anti-depressants he was taking sent his mind spinning out of control." Doctors had him on Paxil and Zoloft just prior to the murders. Paxil's known "adverse drug reactions" - according to the drug's FDA-approved label - include "mania," "insomnia," "anxiety," "agitation," "confusion," "amnesia," "depression," "paranoid reaction," "psychosis," "hostility," "delirium," "hallucinations," "abnormal thinking," "depersonalization" and "lack of emotion," among others.

The preceding examples are some of the best-known offenders who had been taking prescribed psychiatric drugs before committing their violent crimes - there are many others logged at SSRI Stories: Anti-Depressant Nightmares.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/06/big-list-of-drug-induced-killers/#50lY3CiciPx8AVKW.99

OK....I went back and fixed it....crap!.... should be easier to read now tho

Way to nit pick the part of article that fits your agenda. I purposelyy posted the whole article to show disparagy from BOTH sides of the. argument....and BOTH sides play the "righteous" game. If you would read the entire article, 100,000 uses of firearms in self defense a year isnt a reach. But, like I said earlier, if it was only 5, it wouldnt matter....it is my right under our constitution to own a firearm and protect myself. And, also like I said earlier.....I DARE a politician to run for President with gun control as a major talking point.

Ill say this slowly....There. Is. No. Logical. Reason. For. A. Law. Abiding. American. Citizen. To. Not
Be. Permitted. To. Own. Firearms.

Ivictictus & RegularFella ,thank you for getting this thread back on track & putting things into perspective.
Veering off in all directions with "Why?" & " Political Agendas ", in MY mind & culture is just a blatant disrespect for the dead.
* Which I'm guilty of myself *

So I abandoned MY own thread. And did NOT post the names of dead, as I had intended.

Bless those who mourn so that they may be comforted.


* Carry on everyone *

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2uir3e_who-are-the-victims-of-the-charleston-shooting_news

Why does he "obviously" have a low IQ? Because his views don't agree with yours? Stop pandering.

Who knows why his hatred grew. Maybe he was ill received as a rapper, perhaps he was the victim of a bully who happened to be black, maybe he latched on to racism as his expression of teen angst.

The why doesn't matter. People were murdered. And understanding his particular "why" is no indicator of anyone else's why.

When racists terrorized another ethnic group without the use of guns they used methods like rape, hanging, dragging behind trucks or gangs of "thugs" to corner and beat another to death.

This isn't a platform for gun control.

This is simply a senseless act that fails reason.

"" Dylann Roof, the man accused of gunning
down nine parishioners at a historically black
church in Charleston, South Carolina, has
been charged with nine counts of murder and
illegal weapons possession, police said.
Roof confessed to the horrific killings at
Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church
in downtown Charleston on Wednesday night,
two sources confirmed to NBC News.
Roof, 21, has told police that he "almost
didn't go through with it because everyone
was so nice to him," sources told NBC News.
And yet he decided he had to "go through
with his mission."
Roof was captured
in Shelby, North
Carolina, on
Thursday morning
during a traffic
stop. He agreed to
be taken back to
South Carolina.
He was being held
Friday at the Al
Cannon Detention
Center in North
Charleston, and was
expected at a bond hearing via closed circuit
television at 2 p.m. ET Friday. A sheriff's
spokesman told NBC News that Roof's cell at
the detention facility neighbored that of
Michael Slager, the white South Carolina
officer charged with murder for shooting
Walter Scott, an unarmed black man.
Police have called the killings a hate crime,
and the Justice Department' will open a civil
rights investigation that will parallel the state
probe.""
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/charleston-church-shooting/dylann-roof-almost-didnt-go-through-charleston-church-shooting-n378341?cid=sm_tw&hootPostID=0d887bb20ff2596957427cb8c1dce9c8

http://drhurd.com/54279/

The Bodies Not Yet Cold, Obama and Biden Exploit a Tragic Event

Had the shooters bond hearing broadcast live. Several victims family members allowed to speak and several forgave shooter.....very touching.
Should be able to be found on some news sites or youtube if anyone wanys to view it.

Uh no, they're acknowledging the ridiculous loss of life that once again divides the country, this should not be happening, and a small percentage of you should not own weapons, doesn't matter what your constitution says, you're all hostages in a game of chance because of it, hoping your number doesn't come up early by some mental case that was given a tool to kill by his just as pucked up "dad"

It's statements like this that have caused the problems we face today.

You liberals believe it is best to control than to create or prosper, you stifle competition and the creative, competitive spirit that produces progress, and kill the desire and ability of people to think, tend, and act for themselves