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| Topic: deadly force? | |
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They are both wrong. The cops should have seen to Mr. Gray's medical needs. Violence remains also wrong. The whole community in Baltimore are condemning the police for what was done and the rioters for what they have done. That includes all ethnicities in this area. the cops ARE the reason he needed medical attention in the first place. did they help him? no they shackled him in a patty wagon after he was already injured, then most likely drove around like a-holes on purpose to hurt him even more and teach him a lesson. while he's 6 feet under, these guys are on PAID leave. SMH |
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does anyone remember a guy by the name of eric frein? he shot 2 cops and then there was a 2 month long manhunt at the cost of over 11 million dollars. if someone was to murder you, you better be damn sure the cops arent going to spend 11 mil to find your killer. why do cops get such special treatment? so its like you kill a cop, they WILL hunt you down till they find you, no matter the cost. a cop kills you, they get a paid vacation and have it ruled justified when anyone in their right mind can tell if its justified or not. even when its all on camera and everyone can see theres no way it was justified, its gets ruled justified and the cops get away with it. everyday in this country people are murdered, beat, falsely arrested, and just f'ed over by the cops, without any consequence ever for the cops. they just do whatever they want and never have to asnwer to anyone, except other cops who will always say it was justified to protect their own. did anyone see the video of that girl who's a model and had her face smashed in, on video by police? because she was drunk and arguing with them, while she was already handcuffed the cop executed a "take down" and threw this lady down straight on her face so hard she smashed bones in the face and had multiple teeth knocked out. all on video, and it was ruled justified. anyone in their right mind can watch the video and see they in no way had to use that much force on a woman who is already handcuffed. but once again, other cops said it was justified, so its ok. this is the new normal in this country.
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The earth is becoming over populated. The Western nations live a life of waste and excess and complain when more and cheaper isn't coming. There probably isn't a child in most 3rd world countries who wouldn't gladly trade places with a bum on Western streets or a child in the worst Western ghetto. Police, like our military, experience and live a life most can't understand or begin to comprehend. Not every Vet who comes home has a psych problem, some do. Not every police officer deals with the worst of society every day, some do. Like our Vets, some become the life they live. They expect the worst from those they encounter, are aggressive and receive what they view as aggression in return. A defensive action becomes a threat, answered by superior aggression which can become fatal..... often senseless. I don't agree with the training and weapons our police are receiving. Our streets are NOT battlefields! I think our police should receive routine evaluations of their abilities to continue if there is excessive violence in their behavior or field of operation. They have at their disposal weaponry, tactics and training used in war..... and our city councils think they won't seek to use them? They are a necessary evil, with a tough job to do, and it eats at you. We allow this police state by not challenging these appropriations. By being too pre-occupied with our own lives to worry about the effects of these actions over the long haul and to what end. Sadly it is poverty, too many laws, too many regulations, corrupt government on all levels effecting education, jobs, business, the public welfare.... basically, BIG GOVERNMENT SOCIALISM that is the problem! Our forefathers saw this as a threat and gave us a Constitution limiting the scope of government and its power over the people. They gave us a Bill of Rights set forth in the first 10 amendments to protect us from what they knew governments and empires would seek to take from us in their growth, turning us from a Republic into a Democracy which they could control by the propaganda of media, influencing votes, elections, which in turn gives them power over education, the public trust. Look at the joke our safety, our Constitution, has become! What amendment within the Bill of Rights have they not violated and infringed upon? Name ONE! The police state is by our own design through their onslaught to our senses, their feeding of our excessiveness, the distractions of media offerings, sports, reality TV, bombarded by commercialism to feed our weakness. Why is half our population on food stamps? Why are we ALL in debt? The bailouts, did they do anything for you? Most people lost their jobs, their homes, 401 Ks, savings, families, so banks and corporations supporting their empire would not fail! Police are people too, and many are just like you and I, but as govt makes our streets a war zone, takes away our will, ability and tools to fight against them, the power of a badge can turn a common man into the soldier mentality..... and people, they have proclaimed us the enemy! |
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They are both wrong. The cops should have seen to Mr. Gray's medical needs. Violence remains also wrong. The whole community in Baltimore are condemning the police for what was done and the rioters for what they have done. That includes all ethnicities in this area. the cops ARE the reason he needed medical attention in the first place. did they help him? no they shackled him in a patty wagon after he was already injured, then most likely drove around like a-holes on purpose to hurt him even more and teach him a lesson. while he's 6 feet under, these guys are on PAID leave. SMH Actually he had the injuries prior to the cops from and accident and had just had surgery. He was selling drugs for being arrested. The cops did not cause the injury. When he resisted arrest, the injury did cause a problem due to the force used. He should have been in bed recovering not on the streets. The surgery was one week prior to this incident. The cops as soon as he related he was hurt should have taken him to the hospital. There is no situation like this that does not carry some fault on the victims. Ethnicity should never be a factor. |
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They are both wrong. The cops should have seen to Mr. Gray's medical needs. Violence remains also wrong. The whole community in Baltimore are condemning the police for what was done and the rioters for what they have done. That includes all ethnicities in this area. the cops ARE the reason he needed medical attention in the first place. did they help him? no they shackled him in a patty wagon after he was already injured, then most likely drove around like a-holes on purpose to hurt him even more and teach him a lesson. while he's 6 feet under, these guys are on PAID leave. SMH Actually he had the injuries prior to the cops from and accident and had just had surgery. He was selling drugs for being arrested. The cops did not cause the injury. When he resisted arrest, the injury did cause a problem due to the force used. He should have been in bed recovering not on the streets. The surgery was one week prior to this incident. The cops as soon as he related he was hurt should have taken him to the hospital. There is no situation like this that does not carry some fault on the victims. Ethnicity should never be a factor. I thought the cop said "he looked at me funny, then took off running". I never heard that they found any drugs or had a reason to arrest or detain him.. Running is NOT against the law! |
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If someone runs and looks suspicious, doesn't a cop have a right to stop him?
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Edited by
2OLD2MESSAROUND
on
Wed 04/29/15 05:22 AM
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Sojourning_Soul stated >>> The earth is becoming over populated. The Western nations live a life of waste and excess and complain when more and cheaper isn't coming. There probably isn't a child in most 3rd world countries who wouldn't gladly trade places with a bum on Western streets or a child in the worst Western ghetto. Police, like our military, experience and live a life most can't understand or begin to comprehend. Not every Vet who comes home has a psych problem, some do. Not every police officer deals with the worst of society every day, some do. Like our Vets, some become the life they live. They expect the worst from those they encounter, are aggressive and receive what they view as aggression in return. A defensive action becomes a threat, answered by superior aggression which can become fatal..... often senseless. I don't agree with the training and weapons our police are receiving. Our streets are NOT battlefields! I think our police should receive routine evaluations of their abilities to continue if there is excessive violence in their behavior or field of operation. They have at their disposal weaponry, tactics and training used in war..... and our city councils think they won't seek to use them? They are a necessary evil, with a tough job to do, and it eats at you. We allow this police state by not challenging these appropriations. By being too pre-occupied with our own lives to worry about the effects of these actions over the long haul and to what end. Sadly it is poverty, too many laws, too many regulations, corrupt government on all levels effecting education, jobs, business, the public welfare.... basically, BIG GOVERNMENT SOCIALISM that is the problem! Our forefathers saw this as a threat and gave us a Constitution limiting the scope of government and its power over the people. They gave us a Bill of Rights set forth in the first 10 amendments to protect us from what they knew governments and empires would seek to take from us in their growth, turning us from a Republic into a Democracy which they could control by the propaganda of media, influencing votes, elections, which in turn gives them power over education, the public trust. Look at the joke our safety, our Constitution, has become! What amendment within the Bill of Rights have they not violated and infringed upon? Name ONE! The police state is by our own design through their onslaught to our senses, their feeding of our excessiveness, the distractions of media offerings, sports, reality TV, bombarded by commercialism to feed our weakness. Why is half our population on food stamps? Why are we ALL in debt? The bailouts, did they do anything for you? Most people lost their jobs, their homes, 401 Ks, savings, families, so banks and corporations supporting their empire would not fail! Police are people too, and many are just like you and I, but as govt makes our streets a war zone, takes away our will, ability and tools to fight against them, the power of a badge can turn a common man into the soldier mentality..... and people, they have proclaimed us the enemy! There's a whole lot of truth in what you posted and sadly our police/sheriff departments across this great nation have gone from 'PROTECT & SERVE' to 'YOU AGAINST US' and we are armed like a private army and you are not! Reading this thread from point A to here {SMH} Tomato discussing rock throwers and explaining why someone won't get killed by that {I fully agree - those aren't PRO-ROCK THROWERS WITH PRO-SLING SHOTS} and several other are posting about why the riot gear is needed because of those rock and guns --- NOT WHAT TOMATO STATED!!! Sometimes the rhetoric just gets blown out of portion and people forget who posted what ---  Geeze I sure wish our quotation would carry the author name forward in the encapsulation...really I do! A) now that the M. Brown - Ferguson, MO situation has garnered so much media attention and the others that followed after that: Walter Scott-shot 6 times in the back/the young man shot in the park by 2 police officers/Eric Garner - NYC choked to death by police officer etc., etc., and the emotional kettle starts to simmer and it won't take much for it to boil over >>> B) the lack of those police officers being charged with any 2nd degree involuntary murder/manslaughter charges and allowed to return back to their jobs C) the consistent way that these cities have had many years of prior suppressed black profiling issues EQUALS a tinder box just waiting an issue to ignite that and issue was for this city 'MR. GRAY' and the shoddy/shameful way that he was handled and it was caught on film by someone's camera phone Doesn't it make you wonder how often these things are occurring and the public aren't catching the POLICE OFFICERS??? I don't live in those neighborhoods but I do look at the facts and search the records to see how often the police department has been brought up on charges of ABUSE... Sure there are those 'PROFESSIONAL RIOTERS' that arrive and instigate and stir the crowd into a frenzy but for all those years of suppressed racial profiling that those communities have lived through --- well, it is not for me to judge when I see how my society stands around and allows the liquored up rioting and property damage and people to get hurt after all those college sporting events; and we turn a blind eye to that! Amazing how and what we view as lawful assembly and what we hate and review as ugly and unlawful --- 
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Edited by
Sojourning_Soul
on
Wed 04/29/15 05:36 AM
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If someone runs and looks suspicious, doesn't a cop have a right to stop him? NO! Only if there is proof of a crime being committed. There are "loitering" laws in some cities, but without evidence of a crime you have every right to NOT be detained or forced to give your ID or any information...... even your name. It is the law! Check youtube for examples of those who exercised their rights in this matter. Many have false arrest or unlawful detention claims BloomingIdiotberg violated peoples rights with his "stop and frisk" policies, and it is still being debated because the liberal media propagandized (falsely) that it had lowered crime That was racial profiling at its worst! And a liberal BILLIONAIRE Mayor! He didn't do anything to help the inner-cities but spent hundreds of MILLIONS on anti-gun agendas....to this day! |
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Edited by
Seakolony
on
Wed 04/29/15 05:45 AM
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Actually running away from police gives them probable cause to stop and question nowadays. If had not of run he may not have even been stopped. If he had walked away rather than ran it may have been different. He should have been home resting after a surgery such as he had to begin with. The cops are definitely negligent in their actions as well. Probable cause especially since he had a rap sheet for distribution and manufacturing already. Police have a duty to ensure safety for those arrested. They did not fulfill their duty and are definitely negligent. There is fault on both sides. The police should lose their jobs. I see a court case coming regarding their negligence. All three will be dismissed.
Soujourning: you had this kind of surgery. How long did it take you to recover? Certainly longer than a week, I am sure. |
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Actually running away from police gives them probable cause to stop and question nowadays. If had not of run he may not have even been stopped. Yes |
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Edited by
Sojourning_Soul
on
Wed 04/29/15 06:00 AM
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Actually running away from police gives them probable cause to stop and question nowadays. If had not of run he may not have even been stopped. If he had walked away rather than ran it may have been different. He should have been home resting after a surgery such as he had to begin with. The cops are definitely negligent in their actions as well. Probable cause especially since he had a rap sheet for distribution and manufacturing already. Police have a duty to ensure safety for those arrested. They did not fulfill their duty and are definitely negligent. There is fault on both sides. The police should lose their jobs. I see a court case coming regarding their negligence. All three will be dismissed. Soujourning: you had this kind of surgery. How long did it take you to recover? Certainly longer than a week, I am sure. WRONG! You might want to learn your rights and the law a little better. There is this little thing called "probable cause" and that takes a presumption of guilt. If running is evidence of that, Joggers beware! He hadn't been charged with a crime or placed under arrest so he was not "running from police" I was up and around in 4 days. It slowed me quite a bit. I don't think I could have done any running....still can't  I might give chasing Iam around an island a try
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Ok, give us a citation, no pun, of the law.
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Ok, give us a citation, no pun, of the law. I sorta completed my incompletness above
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Actually running away from police gives them probable cause to stop and question nowadays. If had not of run he may not have even been stopped. If he had walked away rather than ran it may have been different. He should have been home resting after a surgery such as he had to begin with. The cops are definitely negligent in their actions as well. Probable cause especially since he had a rap sheet for distribution and manufacturing already. Police have a duty to ensure safety for those arrested. They did not fulfill their duty and are definitely negligent. There is fault on both sides. The police should lose their jobs. I see a court case coming regarding their negligence. All three will be dismissed. Soujourning: you had this kind of surgery. How long did it take you to recover? Certainly longer than a week, I am sure. WRONG! You might want to learn your rights and the law a little better. There is this little thing called "probable cause" and that takes a presumption of guilt. If running is evidence of that, Joggers beware! He hadn't been placed under arrest so he was not "running from police" I was up and around in 4 days. It slowed me quite a bit. I don't think I could have done any running....still can't I do now my rights, and how to fight the system. Problem is they made laws that are against the Bill of Rights. In essence taking those rights away through law and law interpretation. You know how smart I really am. It will come to war you know and I know in the eventuality. |
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Edited by
Sojourning_Soul
on
Wed 04/29/15 06:04 AM
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Actually running away from police gives them probable cause to stop and question nowadays. If had not of run he may not have even been stopped. If he had walked away rather than ran it may have been different. He should have been home resting after a surgery such as he had to begin with. The cops are definitely negligent in their actions as well. Probable cause especially since he had a rap sheet for distribution and manufacturing already. Police have a duty to ensure safety for those arrested. They did not fulfill their duty and are definitely negligent. There is fault on both sides. The police should lose their jobs. I see a court case coming regarding their negligence. All three will be dismissed. Soujourning: you had this kind of surgery. How long did it take you to recover? Certainly longer than a week, I am sure. WRONG! You might want to learn your rights and the law a little better. There is this little thing called "probable cause" and that takes a presumption of guilt. If running is evidence of that, Joggers beware! He hadn't been placed under arrest so he was not "running from police" I was up and around in 4 days. It slowed me quite a bit. I don't think I could have done any running....still can't I do now my rights, and how to fight the system. Problem is they made laws that are against the Bill of Rights. In essence taking those rights away through law and law interpretation. You know how smart I really am. It will come to war you know and I know in the eventuality. A false belief! The Constitution is the law of the land and it says certain rights are unalienable! Even by an act of congress! Merriam Webster: Unalienable: impossible to take away or give up |
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It's just another way to take power away from the people, like the way our constitutional rights have been under attack. Tom Cruise reportedly built an underground shelter and was ridiculed for it. Who's laughing now, hey? smart of him, if i had the money i would definitely do the same. $h!t is gettin crazy. well I agree.. time to get out of Dodge, Brother... so where are you heading?.. Where is that safe haven? Are you ready to give up that U.S. citizenship .. head for higher grounds?.. where exactly might that be? |
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We need lawyers on this thread. I found this nugget:
The Court was also clear to reiterate prior caselaw that running from the police, on its own, is not a suspicious enough fact to create “reasonable suspicion”, making it justifiable to stop a person and perform an investigation. Therefore, running from the police does not give them a reason to stop you. It is, however, a suspicious fact and coupled with other factors may create a reasonable suspicion. It has been held that running from police in a high crime high drug trafficking area CAN create reasonable suspicion. |
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Edited by
Sojourning_Soul
on
Wed 04/29/15 06:14 AM
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We need lawyers on this thread. I found this nugget: The Court was also clear to reiterate prior caselaw that running from the police, on its own, is not a suspicious enough fact to create “reasonable suspicion”, making it justifiable to stop a person and perform an investigation. Therefore, running from the police does not give them a reason to stop you. It is, however, a suspicious fact and coupled with other factors may create a reasonable suspicion. It has been held that running from police in a high crime high drug trafficking area CAN create reasonable suspicion. And some wonder why after making a statement of innocence, Lerner was allowed to plead the 5th even though it was a violation nullifying her right to..... and she was never forced to comply, or submit to the law as written Power has privilege..... in their own courts The law is what they say it is.....and can enforce Constitution be damned! |
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It's just another way to take power away from the people, like the way our constitutional rights have been under attack. Tom Cruise reportedly built an underground shelter and was ridiculed for it. Who's laughing now, hey? smart of him, if i had the money i would definitely do the same. $h!t is gettin crazy. well I agree.. time to get out of Dodge, Brother... so where are you heading?.. Where is that safe haven? Are you ready to give up that U.S. citizenship .. head for higher grounds?.. where exactly might that be? Welcome to Alaska!
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