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Topic: The Citizens have spoken!
no photo
Thu 11/06/14 10:02 AM


The [majority of] citizens had spoken in 2008 when they elected Obama as POTUS; most of you disavowed THAT majority voice, then.

The [majority of] citizens had spoken in 2012 when the re-elected Obama as POTUS; most of you disavowed THAT majority voice, then.


Why is the [majority of] citizens who have spoken in 2014 suddenly carrying more validity and weight than the voice of the [majority of] citizens, then?




Is the majority voice more *right*, THIS time?!? what




A vote for either of the banker/corporation/media controlled 2 parties is a loss for the people

Nothing much changes but the holder of the gavel signaling our fates

Obozo is still going to do his best to destroy America as promised only now it will be mostly by EO since Reid can no longer protect him and Holder is leaving as well.

The Emperor is about to reveal his true wardrobe


But nothing really has changed, albeit:


IF WE look beneath the surface of our public affairs, we can discern one fundamental fact, namely: a great redistribution of power between society and the State. This is the fact that interests the student of civilization. He has only a secondary or derived interest in matters like price-fixing, wage-fixing, inflation, political banking, "agricultural adjustment," and similar items of State policy that fill the pages of newspapers and the mouths of publicists and politicians. All these can be run up under one head. They have an immediate and temporary importance, and for this reason they monopolize public attention, but they all come to the same thing; which is, an increase of State power and a corresponding decrease of social power.

It is unfortunately none too well understood that, just as the State has no money of its own, so it has no power of its own. All the power it has is what society gives it, plus what it confiscates from time to time on one pretext or another; there is no other source from which State power can be drawn. Therefore every assumption of State power, whether by gift or seizure, leaves society with so much less power. There is never, nor can there be, any strengthening of State power without a corresponding and roughly equivalent depletion of social power.

Moreover, it follows that with any exercise of State power, not only the exercise of social power in the same direction, but the disposition to exercise it in that direction, tends to dwindle. Mayor Gaynor astonished the whole of New York when he pointed out to a correspondent who had been complaining about the inefficiency of the police, that any citizen has the right to arrest a malefactor and bring him before a magistrate. "The law of England and of this country," he wrote, "has been very careful to confer no more right in that respect upon policemen and constables than it confers on every citizen." State exercise of that right through a police force had gone on so steadily that not only were citizens indisposed to exercise it, but probably not one in ten thousand knew he had it.

Heretofore in this country sudden crises of misfortune have been met by a mobilization of social power. In fact (except for certain institutional enterprises like the home for the aged, the lunatic-asylum, city-hospital and county-poorhouse) destitution, unemployment, "depression"and similar ills, have been no concern of the State, but have been relieved by the application of social power. Under Mr. Roosevelt, however, the State assumed this function, publicly announcing the doctrine, brand-new in our history, that the State owes its citizens a living. Students of politics, of course, saw in this merely an astute proposal for a prodigious enhancement of State power; merely what, as long ago as 1794, James Madison called "the old trick of turning every contingency into a resource for accumulating force in the government"; and the passage of time has proved that they were right. The effect of this upon the balance between State power and social power is clear, and also its effect of a general indoctrination with the idea that an exercise of social power upon such matters is no longer called for.


These are the opening paragraphs of a book by Albert Jay Nock, "Our Enemy, The State", written in 1935 as Roosevelt put into place the most socialistic measures ever in the history of this country. Measures that today seem normal and beyond question.


In the United States at the present time, the principal indexes of the increase of State power are three in number. First, the point to which the centralization of State authority has been carried. Practically all the sovereign rights and powers of the smaller political units - all of them that are significant enough to be worth absorbing - have been absorbed by the federal unit; nor is this all. State power has not only been thus concentrated at Washington, but it has been so far concentrated into the hands of the Executive that the existing regime is a regime of personal government. It is nominally republican, but actually monocratic; a curious anomaly, but highly characteristic of a people little gifted with intellectual integrity. Personal government is not exercised here in the same ways as in Italy, Russia or Germany, for there is as yet no State interest to be served by so doing, but rather the contrary; while in those countries there is. But personal government is always personal government; the mode of its exercise is a matter of immediate political expediency, and is determined entirely by circumstances.

This regime was established by a coup d'etat of a new and unusual kind, practicable only in a rich country. It was effected, not by violence, like Louis-Napoleon's, or by terrorism, like Mussolini's, but by purchase. It therefore presents what might be called an American variant of the coup d'etat.

Our national legislature was not suppressed by force of arms, like the French Assembly in 1851, but was bought out of its functions with public money; and as appeared most conspicuously in the elections of November, 1934, the consolidation of the coup d'etat was effected by the same means; the corresponding functions in the smaller units were reduced under the personal control of the Executive.

This is a most remarkable phenomenon; possibly nothing quite like it ever took place; and its character and implications deserve the most careful attention.
A second index is supplied by the prodigious extension of the bureaucratic principle that is now observable. This is attested prima facie by the number of new boards, bureaux and commissions set up at Washington in the last two years. They are reported as representing something like 90,000 new employees appointed outside the civil service, and the total of the federal pay-roll in Washington is reported as something over three million dollars per month.

This, however, is relatively a small matter. The pressure of centralization has tended powerfully to convert every official and every political aspirant in the smaller units into a venal and complaisant agent of the federal bureaucracy. This presents an interesting parallel with the state of things prevailing in the Roman Empire in the last days of the Flavian dynasty, and afterwards. The rights and practices of local self-government, which were formerly very considerable in the provinces and much more so in the municipalities, were lost by surrender rather than by suppression. The imperial bureaucracy, which up to the second century was comparatively a modest affair, grew rapidly to great size, and local politicians were quick to see the advantage of being on terms with it. They came to Rome with their hats in their hands, as governors, Congressional aspirants and such-like now go to Washington. Their eyes and thoughts were constantly fixed on Rome, because recognition and preferment lay that way; and in their incorrigible sycophancy they became, as Plutarch says, like hypochondriacs who dare not eat or take a bath without consulting their physician.

A third index is seen in the erection of poverty and mendicancy into a permanent political asset. Two years ago, many of our people were in hard straits; to some extent, no doubt, through no fault of their own, though it is now clear that in the popular view of their case, as well as in the political view, the line between the deserving poor and the undeserving poor was not distinctly drawn. Popular feeling ran high at the time, and the prevailing wretchedness was regarded with undiscriminating emotion, as evidence of some general wrong done upon its victims by society at large, rather than as the natural penalty of greed, folly or actual misdoings; which in large part it was. The State, always instinctively "turning every contingency into a resource" for accelerating the conversion of social power into State power, was quick to take advantage of this state of mind. All that was needed to organize these unfortunates into an invaluable political property was to declare the doctrine that the State owes all its citizens a living; and this was accordingly done. It immediately precipitated an enormous mass of subsidized voting-power, an enormous resource for strengthening the State at the expense of society.


And this was more than 80 years ago and has anything changed? Yes it has, but not for the better just more and more state power. So how can we really expect any change now? In short, we can't.




mrld_ii's photo
Thu 11/06/14 10:04 AM
Actually, my questions have already been answered, resoundingly.


The answers were found in the gaping silences and repeated quoting of my questions, to deliberately NOT address them but to instead raise other *issues*.


In any event, my point's been made, so there's no need for me to continue to kick the dead elephant in the room.


drinks







no photo
Thu 11/06/14 10:19 AM
Edited by Happiness2U on Thu 11/06/14 10:17 AM

Actually, my questions have already been answered, resoundingly.


The answers were found in the gaping silences and repeated quoting of my questions, to deliberately NOT address them but to instead raise other *issues*.


In any event, my point's been made, so there's no need for me to continue to kick the dead elephant in the room.


drinks










Dead elephant!! laugh drinker

no photo
Thu 11/06/14 10:25 AM



The [majority of] citizens had spoken in 2008 when they elected Obama as POTUS; most of you disavowed THAT majority voice, then.

The [majority of] citizens had spoken in 2012 when the re-elected Obama as POTUS; most of you disavowed THAT majority voice, then.


Why is the [majority of] citizens who have spoken in 2014 suddenly carrying more validity and weight than the voice of the [majority of] citizens, then?




Is the majority voice more *right*, THIS time?!? what




I find midterm elections more telling than presidential. Different states and different candidates. Didn't we just have the biggest swing during his time in off in the past 65 years?



Don't know if it's the biggest swing, but it IS the largest Republican segment in Congress since WWII.


But, again, I ask (and, again, everyone ignores): since the citizens have now spoken and 'made a statement',


what about the statement made in 2008 and especially in 2012 that so many of you were so willing to ignore? Why does THIS "the citizens have spoken" carry more weight/validity than when "the citizens [had] spoken" back then?


They're honest and valid questions...feel free to squirm in your seats as much as you like, but they DO (eventually) deserve honest and valid answers.


drinks





Honest and valid question, not really.


Such are the antecedents of the institution which is everywhere now so busily converting social power by wholesale into State power. The recognition of them goes a long way towards resolving most, if not all, of the apparent anomalies which the conduct of the modern State exhibits. It is of great help, for example, in accounting for the open and notorious fact that the State always moves slowly and grudgingly towards any purpose that accrues to society's advantage, but moves rapidly and with alacrity towards one that accrues to its own advantage; nor does it ever move towards social purposes on its own initiative, but only under heavy pressure, while its motion towards anti-social purposes is self-sprung.

Spencer does not discuss what he calls "the perennial faith of mankind" in State action, but contents himself with elaborating the sententious observation of Guizot, that "a belief in the sovereign power of political machinery" is nothing less than "a gross delusion." This faith is chiefly an effect of the immense prestige which the State has diligently built up for itself in the century or more since the doctrine of jure divino rulership gave way. We need not consider the various instruments that the State employs in building up its prestige; most of them are well known, and their uses well understood. There is one, however, which is in a sense peculiar to the republican State. Republicanism permits the individual to persuade himself that the State is his creation, that State action is his action, that when it expresses itself it expresses him, and when it is glorified he is glorified. The republican State encourages this persuasion with all its power, aware that it is the most efficient instrument for enhancing its own prestige. Lincoln's phrase, "of the people, by the people, for the people" was probably the most effective single stroke of propaganda ever made in behalf of republican State prestige.

Thus the findings arrived at by the historical method amply support the immense body of practical considerations brought forward by Spencer against the State's inroads upon social power. When Spencer concludes that "in State-organizations, corruption is unavoidable," the historical method abundantly shows cause why, in the nature of things, this should be expected - vilescit origine tali. When Freud comments on the shocking disparity between State-ethics and private ethics - and his observations on this point are most profound and searching - the historical method at once supplies the best of reasons why that disparity should be looked for. When Ortega y Gasset says that "Statism is the higher form taken by violence and direct action, when these are set up as standards," the historical method enables us to perceive at once that his definition is precisely that which one would make a priori.
-Albert Jay Nock

Sojourning_Soul's photo
Thu 11/06/14 10:35 AM

Actually, my questions have already been answered, resoundingly.


The answers were found in the gaping silences and repeated quoting of my questions, to deliberately NOT address them but to instead raise other *issues*.


In any event, my point's been made, so there's no need for me to continue to kick the dead elephant in the room.


drinks



davidben1's photo
Thu 11/06/14 11:20 AM
to the narcissist it's but a debate to win to dazzle one self, to some who care about others it's about an equal platform for all in equality to stand upon.

but then narcissist by nature could care less about equal to and for all, it be solely about feeling as their winning for them self.

mysticalview21's photo
Thu 11/06/14 11:55 AM



King Ding A Ling Obama cant out a spin on this. The citizens have slapped him in the face today. All's we need is one more Senate seat to get the majority and we have already won the House. it's a bad day for Libbos........



laugh

:laughing:


Yea, who is Obola gonna blame this on? :laughing:




I saw a shirt right when Obama got elected for the first time ...shirt said with Bush on it Blame it on the Black guy over there lol

mysticalview21's photo
Thu 11/06/14 12:05 PM
Edited by mysticalview21 on Thu 11/06/14 12:10 PM
the republicans want the pipe line ... and are not really satisfied with all those kids... that came over the boarder ... but President wants to work on immigration ... and repubs want the health care to change ...when they help wright it lmao and some repubs say war lets do it !!!
oh and their is a surprise but I am not talking... :smile:

just shakes head ...

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