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Topic: The 10 Commandments
Manskirt's photo
Tue 10/21/14 08:12 AM

After the resurrection of Jesus, wich occurred on the first day of the week...the Lord's disciples began observing the Sabbath on the first day of the week...Sunday(act 20 :7)
Christianity is not about keeping the law though...or even the ten commandments, it is about fulfilling the law through the spirit of love...just saying..


Yes, Messiah was seen early on the first day of the week, but He did not tell or instruct anyone that He was changing the Sabbath day. Also just because the Apostle Paul had dinner with people on the first day of the week, does not mean that the 7th day was changed. It was a dinner. Time shared before he had to leave on his next trip.

Manskirt's photo
Tue 10/21/14 08:16 AM
Edited by Manskirt on Tue 10/21/14 08:40 AM

Isaiah 1:13 The new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity.
Matthew 12:2 Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat and drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon; or of the sabbath days.


All of the Scripture that you quoted is indeed correct, but Paul wasn't referring to actual days kept but how they were to be kept. The Jews wanted the new converts not only to believe in Messiah but keep there traditions that they had put around all of the days. It wasn't that the days were done away with.

Matt. 5: 19 Messiah said " Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these Commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven.

James 2: 10,11 "For whoever shall keep the whole law and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said "Do not commit adultery" also said "Do not murder" Now if you do not commit adultery but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law (The 10 Commandments)

no photo
Tue 10/21/14 08:48 AM
nice

TBRich's photo
Tue 10/21/14 01:12 PM


Isaiah 1:13 The new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity.
Matthew 12:2 Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat and drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon; or of the sabbath days.


All of the Scripture that you quoted is indeed correct, but Paul wasn't referring to actual days kept but how they were to be kept. The Jews wanted the new converts not only to believe in Messiah but keep there traditions that they had put around all of the days. It wasn't that the days were done away with.

Matt. 5: 19 Messiah said " Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these Commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven.

James 2: 10,11 "For whoever shall keep the whole law and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said "Do not commit adultery" also said "Do not murder" Now if you do not commit adultery but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law (The 10 Commandments)


Did not Jesus say this is the whole of the law:1. Love the Lord thy g-d; 2. Love one another. This is first found in the Noahide code, which James instructs Paul (in Acts) that his gentile converts should follow, not laws specifically relating to Jewish people.

In Isaiah 1:11 you read "To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats."

Here one can begin to see that it is not rote ritual that is wanted, but a heart full of love and life. You are to remember the Sabbath day in your heart and keep it holy, not rotely mark off a day on the calendar. BTW, JMHO

Manskirt's photo
Tue 10/21/14 01:26 PM
Edited by Manskirt on Tue 10/21/14 01:30 PM
He was referring to the physical laws such as circumcision, the washing of utensils and such. That had nothing to do with the Commandments. The Commandments are a separate law from all the other laws. When Messiah said I give you the two Greatest laws, the first one was to Love G-d with all your heart and soul, mind. The other is like it to love your neighbor as yourself. Since Messiah came as the example are we to follow Him or what man says. Is there one place in Scripture that shows Messiah not keeping the Sabbath or where He changed to be just any 7th day. If Scripture doesn't support Scripture then what is left is what man has come up with to justify his life style.

TBRich's photo
Tue 10/21/14 01:39 PM

He was referring to the physical laws such as circumcision, the washing of utensils and such. That had nothing to do with the Commandments. The Commandments are a separate law from all the other laws. When Messiah said I give you the two Greatest laws, the first one was to Love G-d with all your heart and soul, mind. The other is like it to love your neighbor as yourself. Since Messiah came as the example are we to follow Him or what man says. Is there one place in Scripture that shows Messiah not keeping the Sabbath or where He changed to be just any 7th day. If Scripture doesn't support Scripture then what is left is what man has come up with to justify his life style.


Historical background[edit]

See also: Biblical law in Christianity § History and background and Circumcision controversy in early Christianity § Jewish background

The Council of Jerusalem is generally dated to around the year 50 AD, roughly twenty years after the crucifixion of Jesus, which is dated between 26 and 36 AD. Acts 15 and Galatians 2 both suggest that the meeting was called to debate whether or not male Gentiles who were converting to become followers of Jesus were required to become circumcised (presumably in accord with Genesis 17:14, a law from God which, according to Genesis 17:13-19, God said would be everlasting). However, circumcision was considered repulsive during the period of Hellenization of the Eastern Mediterranean.[2]

At the time, most followers of Jesus (which historians refer to as Jewish Christians) were Jewish by birth and even converts would have considered the early Christians as a part of Judaism. According to Alister McGrath, the Jewish Christians affirmed every aspect of then contemporary Second Temple Judaism with the addition of the belief that Jesus was the Messiah.[3] Unless males were circumcised, they could not be God's People. The meeting was called to decide whether circumcision for gentile converts was requisite for community membership since certain individuals were teaching that "nless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved".[4]

Circumcision as a mandate was associated with Abraham (see also Abrahamic covenant), but it is cited as 'the custom of Moses' because Moses is considered the traditional giver of the Law as a whole. The circumcision mandate was made more official and binding in the Mosaic Law Covenant. In John 7:22 the words of Jesus are reported to be that Moses gave the people circumcision.

Issues and outcome[edit]

The purpose of the meeting, according to Acts, was to resolve a disagreement in Antioch, which had wider implications than just circumcision, since circumcision is the "everlasting" sign of the Abrahamic Covenant (Genesis 17:9-14). Some of the Pharisees who had become believers insisted that it was "needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses", according to the popular KJV translation[5] while the Unvarnished New Testament[6] translates: "They have to be circumcised; we have to proclaim and keep the law of Moses".

The primary issue which was addressed related to the requirement of circumcision, as the author of Acts relates, but other important matters arose as well, as the Apostolic Decree indicates. The dispute was between those, such as the followers of the "Pillars of the Church," led by James, who believed, following his interpretation of the Great Commission, that the church must observe the Torah, i.e. the rules of traditional Judaism,[1] and Paul the Apostle, who believed there was no such necessity. (See also Supersessionism, New Covenant, Antinomianism, Hellenistic Judaism, Paul the Apostle and Judaism)

At the Council, following advice offered by Simon Peter (Acts 15:7–11), the apostle James submitted a proposal, which was accepted by the Church and known as the Apostolic Decree:


It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.[2] For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath. (Acts 15:19–21)

The Western version of Acts (see Acts of the Apostles: Manuscripts) adds the negative form of the Golden Rule ("and whatever things ye would not have done to yourselves, do not do to another").[3]

This determined questions wider than that of circumcision, particularly dietary questions, but also fornication and idolatry and blood, and also the application of Biblical law to non-Jews. It was stated by the Apostles and Elders in the Council: "the Holy Spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things, to abstain from things sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper." (Acts 15:27-28) And this Apostolic Decree was considered binding on all the other local Christian congregations in other regions.[7] See also Biblical law directed at non-Jews, Seven Laws of Noah, Biblical law in Christianity, and the Ten Commandments in Christianity.

The writer of Acts gives an account of a restatement by James and the elders in Jerusalem of the contents of the letter on the occasion of Paul's final Jerusalem visit, immediately prior to Paul's arrest at the temple, recounting: "When we had come to Jerusalem, the brothers received us gladly. On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present." (Acts 21:17-18, ESV) The elders then proceed to notify Paul of what seems to have been a common concern among Jewish believers, that he was teaching Diaspora Jewish converts to Christianity "to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs." They remind the assembly that, "...as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality." In the view of some scholars, the reminder of James and the elders here is an expression of concern that Paul was not fully teaching the decision of the Jerusalem Council's letter to Gentiles,[8] particularly in regard to non-strangled kosher meat,[9] which contrasts with Paul's advice to Gentiles in Corinth,[10] to "eat whatever is sold in the meat markets."(I Corinthians 10:25)[11]

Historicity[edit]

See also: Historical reliability of the Acts of the Apostles

The description of the 'Apostolic Council' in Acts 15, generally considered the same event described in Galatians 2,[12] is considered by some scholars to be contradictory to the Galatians account.[13] The historicity of Luke's account has been challenged,[14][15][16] and was rejected completely by some scholars in the mid to late 20th century.[17] However, more recent scholarship inclines towards treating the Jerusalem Council and its rulings as a historical event,[18] though this is sometimes expressed with caution.[19] Bruce Metzger's Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament includes a summary of current research on the topic as of about 1994:


In conclusion, therefore, it appears that the least unsatisfactory solution of the complicated textual and exegetical problems of the Apostolic Decree is to regard the fourfold decree[20] as original (foods offered to idols, strangled meat, eating blood, and unchastity—whether ritual or moral), and to explain the two forms of the threefold decree[20] in some such way as those suggested above.[21] An extensive literature exists on the text and exegesis of the Apostolic Decree. ... According to Jacques Dupont, "Present day scholarship is practically unanimous in considering the 'Eastern' text of the decree as the only authentic text (in four items) and in interpreting its prescriptions in a sense not ethical but ritual" [Les problèmes du Livre des Actes d'après les travaux récents (Louvain, 1950), p.70].[22]

As the last line reads- not ethical but ritual; Is this not a major subject in the teachings of Jesus- that the law should NOT be ritual but ethical?

Manskirt's photo
Tue 10/21/14 04:23 PM
Dude I am really impressed with your research, It shows me that there is a will to learn inside of you. Amen! It's true that the Gentiles did not have to keep the food or ritual laws as the Hebrews. I don't keep the food laws or any of the ritual laws. I am Commandment Keeper and I keep Passover just as Messiah taught us what most call the last supper. I will pray that G-d keeps you in His Hands my Friend. I have not seen such dedication to study the Word as you have shown me today, Amen!!! I also don't keep xmas or easter, but that subject is for another day. You have my up most Respect, May G-d Bless you abundantly!

Manskirt's photo
Tue 10/21/14 04:25 PM
Dude I am really impressed with your research, It shows me that there is a will to learn inside of you. Amen! It's true that the Gentiles did not have to keep the food or ritual laws as the Hebrews. I don't keep the food laws or any of the ritual laws. I am Commandment Keeper and I keep Passover just as Messiah taught us what most call the last supper. I will pray that G-d keeps you in His Hands my Friend. I have not seen such dedication to study the Word as you have shown me today, Amen!!! I also don't keep xmas or easter, but that subject is for another day. You have my up most Respect, May G-d Bless you abundantly!

CowboyGH's photo
Wed 10/22/14 10:40 AM



Isaiah 1:13 The new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity.
Matthew 12:2 Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat and drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon; or of the sabbath days.


All of the Scripture that you quoted is indeed correct, but Paul wasn't referring to actual days kept but how they were to be kept. The Jews wanted the new converts not only to believe in Messiah but keep there traditions that they had put around all of the days. It wasn't that the days were done away with.

Matt. 5: 19 Messiah said " Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these Commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven.

James 2: 10,11 "For whoever shall keep the whole law and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said "Do not commit adultery" also said "Do not murder" Now if you do not commit adultery but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law (The 10 Commandments)


Did not Jesus say this is the whole of the law:1. Love the Lord thy g-d; 2. Love one another. This is first found in the Noahide code, which James instructs Paul (in Acts) that his gentile converts should follow, not laws specifically relating to Jewish people.

In Isaiah 1:11 you read "To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats."

Here one can begin to see that it is not rote ritual that is wanted, but a heart full of love and life. You are to remember the Sabbath day in your heart and keep it holy, not rotely mark off a day on the calendar. BTW, JMHO


Exactly and is why Jesus never spoke of "rituals" and spoke against sacrificing to him. Jesus spoke purely about faith and love, one can not have one without the other. Faith is what you "want" to be true and love is in the sharing of that faith. That's all Jesus/God wants, is our hearts. Actions and words can be spoken and done in vein. God know's what's in our hearts so it makes no nevermind for the rituals and stuff of that nature.

CowboyGH's photo
Wed 10/22/14 10:44 AM




Isaiah 1:13 The new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity.
Matthew 12:2 Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another; another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat and drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon; or of the sabbath days.


All of the Scripture that you quoted is indeed correct, but Paul wasn't referring to actual days kept but how they were to be kept. The Jews wanted the new converts not only to believe in Messiah but keep there traditions that they had put around all of the days. It wasn't that the days were done away with.

Matt. 5: 19 Messiah said " Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these Commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven.

James 2: 10,11 "For whoever shall keep the whole law and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said "Do not commit adultery" also said "Do not murder" Now if you do not commit adultery but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law (The 10 Commandments)


Did not Jesus say this is the whole of the law:1. Love the Lord thy g-d; 2. Love one another. This is first found in the Noahide code, which James instructs Paul (in Acts) that his gentile converts should follow, not laws specifically relating to Jewish people.

In Isaiah 1:11 you read "To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats."

Here one can begin to see that it is not rote ritual that is wanted, but a heart full of love and life. You are to remember the Sabbath day in your heart and keep it holy, not rotely mark off a day on the calendar. BTW, JMHO


Exactly and is why Jesus never spoke of "rituals" and spoke against sacrificing to him. Jesus spoke purely about faith and love, one can not have one without the other. Faith is what you "want" to be true and love is in the sharing of that faith. That's all Jesus/God wants, is our hearts. Actions and words can be spoken and done in vein. God know's what's in our hearts so it makes no nevermind for the rituals and stuff of that nature.


Now he did speak for the "Sabbath". But that is not a "ritual". That is keeping a day for not worrying about money and or Earthly things. But giving even just one day to purely God/Jesus in worship and thanks for what he has done for us. But as for the burnt offerings for forgiveness and or other purposes God does not enjoy and never instructed us to do. He wants us to do what's right and not have to ask for forgiveness and or sacrifice things in search of forgiveness. He wants us to have the faith and the love to follow that faith in him in all his glory.

Manskirt's photo
Thu 10/23/14 05:45 AM
G-d and Messiah, wish for the sacrifice of the heart, which means do as they have instructed, out of Love for them and not grudgingly. But the same 7th day then is the same 7th day today. We all admit, to keeping the other nine because those don't involve a certain day, but an attitude of a righteous Spirit. But since the 7th day is actually a day set aside for Remembrance and Worship, this is the one that got change. It was the easiest one to change so the many would follow. All the history books on Biblical and Christian teachings also say the 7th day is the Sabbath and that Constantine had changed it. So since G-d, created it and sanctified it why did man change it. It wasn't because authority was given him. So why do the many follow it? Food for thought. To all have a Bless Day :-)

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