Do you agree with what the title of this thread says?

I find that the bible is unclear about 'marriage' when it comes to 'pre marital' sex


I Have always questioned where interpreters came up with their definition for 'fornication' and how it included marital status,,,,

which part of the bible specifies what determines a marital status?


it certainly seems to me that the bible is frustratingly silent on what 'marriage' actually is or when it has occurred,,,

I think it is clear that sex outside of 'marriage' is wrong and sex with same sex is wrong, but beyond that, marriage is one of the great moral mysteries,, for me

ultimately, I believe a marriage must involve five things

A vow to GOD
a vow to a woman from a man
a vow to a man from a woman
witnesses
family approval

I believe , if these five things are present, the state of 'marriage' exists and sex within those confines is blessed,,,

How can we say for sure yes or no, as we can only account for three years of Jesus Christ life...

You misquoted the title of this thread.

How so, what does Christian mean?

You made reference to the personal life of the LORD Jesus, which is not the topic of this thread.

Christian is belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ correct?

Thus, Christian being Christlike correct?

If one professes to be a "Christian" then it would seem that they would honestly adhere to the teachings of Christ's life.

Premarital sex is considered to be an act of adultery, a sin in the eyes of God. So I think sex IS an un-Christian act outside of marriage.

I understand all the different points of view. For myself, as a Christian, I do not however agree that the bible is clear on certain definitions,,,,

such as what makes one a wife or husband
what constitutes a marriage
what 'fornication' is, specifically


in the old testament there are many instances of people being married upon 'knowing' (having sex with) one another

in the new testament there aren't really substantial examples of the marital process or when one goes from being pre married to married,,,


the culture and the times have changed to define lots of things as 'marriage', but I don't find a clear BLIBLICAL Definition of what constitutes a marriage except that a man and woman become 'one flesh',,,,

marriage

1. The formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.

2. A combination or mixture of two or more elements.

synonyms: union, alliance, fusion, mixture, mix, blend, amalgamation, merger

fornication

1. Sexual intercourse between people not married to each other.

synonyms: extramarital sex, extramarital relations, adultery, infidelity, unfaithfulness, cuckoldry;

I don't think times and cultures have changed so much that people don't understand what marriage or being married really means.

Nor are people so dimwitted that we don't understand what pre-marital sex or fornication is.

And even though times have drastically changed in regards to gender identification and same sex marriages or unions, the Bible is very clear on its teachings about these subjects.

If people don't agree with the Scriptures they are free to discard them and live how they like. But just because they choose to ignore Bible precepts doesn't diminish them in any way for those who still believe. Those who recognize themselves as "Christians."

Justifying our behavior by eradicating the code of conduct long held by tradition doesn't automatically make two wrongs a right. (imo)

... ...

Yeah....but the thing is many Christians do not even follow these teachings. This is where the term "hypocrisy" comes in and boy do non-believers love to throw that term right in to a Christians face.

Hmmmm... The Bible was put together by man... The books of the New Testament were put together by man.... A lot of books were discarded and kept locked up tight for people not to see.....

The whole crusade for premarital sex being unchristian, was a great attempt at mass birth-control!

I would say that it succeeded and probably sustained life on earth for a little longer before we (humans) self destruct the planet..

Thank goodness, that people were given free will and came up with things such as condoms, birth-control pills, etc ...

So, do I think it is an Christian, NO.. I think sex is one of the more natural acts that we can possibly do as humans. If it wasn't natural, I guess woman wouldn't ovulate on a regular basis..

These are just my opinions before anyone decides to go kill themselves or something...

No.

I know... not only do some Christians not follow bible teachings anymore, and we know them by their fruits... some churches that were founded on certain principles have turned their backs on their own church doctrines just to be accepted by the world. And that's when I draw the line and step away.

In the end it's all about our personal connection and how we live our lives, so being part of a group isn't a guarantee we're going to be saved. imo.

what was provided were the MODERN Definitions of words, and even they don't specify what marriage is

a formal union?

does that mean one has to involve government? that was never mentioned in the bible...


is it 'formal' enough to make a vow to God and each other before witnesses?

is it 'formal' enough to make a vow to God and each other and to our families?

these are the things done in the bible and I believe they were 'formal' in nature too,,,,

So, you don't have a biblical-based defense of your opinion about the subject being discussed.

Sure, you can come up with lots of Biblical based support for not having pre-marital sex. But the books in which they talk about it (mostly in the old testament) also say for slaves to respect their masters, that it's okay for men to have have multiple wives, that men should not cut their hair, and that it's a sin to eat shellfish.

There has been talk in the thread that came before this about FWB about hypocrisy and the idea that you are not truly a christian, or the right kind of christian if you do not follow every literal point the Bible makes about sex. And you are free to follow those points, but I hope that if you are pointing fingers at us "hypocrites", you are following all of these Biblical ideals as well.

As for me, I follow the words that Jesus spoke, which are mostly about love and forgiveness. I will continue to be opposed to slavery in any form, cut my sons' hair, eat shrimp scampi, and have pre-marital sex with girls, and still feel confident that Jesus and I are 100% cool.