So do you think you will be placed just a bit higher in heaven because of what you have done here today. I did not mock your thread I was actually very interested and tried doing some research in between clients. Now I just feel set up! How hard is it to walk into a conversation that you have fully researched and sucker bait others into your trap...knowing that they have spent very little to no time researching it. You act like you are trying to convince people that god exists ....but it is your type that actually turns me off to religion! Maybe you should try another tactic!

Well that makes sense....another question...

Were the peoples punished with the use chilies, of the same nationality, same descent, same countires of origins?

I dont have any entrapment grand examples here, I am curious...

I used 500 years only as a number...and because it did fit with the Columbus suggestion..

My understandings, which are limited, is that Mayan Indians, as well as many other cultures, more ancient, had chilies within their diets, and medicinal uses, and that the plants may have been indigenous to many areas across the world, and may have been a 'mutation' of a much older species..

As to humans, is it not possible we evolved, right along with them? That building of tolerance?

That capsaicin levels may have been a lot less 7000 BC,(just a number, no relevance to anything in particular)?

Don't mind him fresh, he always tries to prove his superiority.

Nobody but him can't be right anyway.

Abracadabra and FreshMountainAir,

I never once mentioned God, I asked a question. And yes, I researched the subject, because I didn't want to ask a stupid question. I didn't mention intelligent design, a creator or anything else that I thought would be objectionable. I haven't once said "It could only have been GOD!". I asked a question about evolution. Now you guys can be offended, think I'm stupid or whatever, I really don't care. But if you feel entrapped, go back and re-read the thread and think about why you might feel that way. I asked a question about evolution that science cannot currently answer, that is all. Could it be that by questioning evolution, I have questioned your religion?

invisible,

I asked a question, sorry if you feel that asking a question is me trying to prove my superiority. Seems to me that you have esteem issues, just about anything I post is somehow a personal attack against you.

FreshMountainAir,

"I did not mock your thread"

In retrospect, I believe that you were just joking along with another poster and you probably weren't trying to insult me or mock the original post. I'm sorry for saying that you were, that was my mistake.

"Every argument you guys (who love and know SOOOOOO much about evolution) made was absolutely silly and I would be ashamed to anwser a question about a belief I held so dear with such thoughtless and obviously uninformed answers."

First nobody asked me my opinion of evolution or god before entering this conversation....so don't asume to know what I do or don't hold dear in my life. Secondly, if you were baited into a conversation that one side had fully researched and you not given the chance to research then you also would look like an idiot! This is where I believe you put yourself off to be arrogant and better than everyone else....I do not believe that my god would act the way you have!

FreshMountainAir,

I wouldn't enter a thread and post if I didn't understand the subject matter, but that's just me. I didn't bait anyone, it's really sad that you say that. I asked a question. By your defintion, anyone who asks a question and already has a position on the subject is "baiting" people into a conversation. Most people who ask a question already have a position on the subject, but want to get other people's opinions. Anyways, I'll leave you to being the victim, I have better things to do.

O.k. well I thought these religion threads were to help people and to talk of positive things....maybe learn a thig or two. Guess I was wrong....so from now on (since I am not the most educated person here on religion) I will just stay out of them! I'm sure that everyone goes to church, not to learn, or to become a better person, but to show that they already know everything and are grandier compared to others......

That is not how I was raised Spider and I don't think that you should pretend to be "all knowing" because you seem quite ignorant to me!

Geeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzz....some things stay the same...

SO are chilies an ancient plant or aren't they?

I suspect they are, and we evolved right alongside them, however most who know me, know my beliefs are not based in God based theories...


Doesn't mean that I am not interested to learn how another arrives as their OPINION/ BELIEFS.

FreshMountainAir,

"O.k. well I thought these religion threads were to help people and to talk of positive things....maybe learn a thig or two"

Seriously, how was this thread so evil? Everyone who posted a theory of how humans got the ability to digest capsaicin, I responded to add facts. I didn't mention my beliefs or God, so running down that trail is a non-sequitor. I asked a question and pointed out the flaws in the responders answers.

"I'm sure that everyone goes to church, not to learn, or to become a better person, but to show that they already know everything and are grandier compared to others...... "

I don't go to church and church has nothing to do with asking a question about evolution. As is pointed out frequently, evolution isn't necessarily opposed to religion.

"That is not how I was raised Spider and I don't think that you should pretend to be "all knowing" because you seem quite ignorant to me! "

Every time someone loses a debate here, they resort to the "Spider thinks he's all knowing!" arguement. No, the simple fact is that before I enter a debate, I make sure I know the facts, so that I can present them clearly and make an effective argument. So my big flaw is that I'm prepared. Silly me, earlier when you said "maybe learn a thig or two", I thought you meant everyone and not just Christians.

Well....There then...you just stated the biggest problem:

"the simple fact is that before I enter a debate, I make sure I know the facts, so that I can present them clearly and make an effective argument. So my big flaw is that I'm prepared. Silly me, earlier when you said "maybe learn a thig or two", I thought you meant everyone and not just Christians."

Nobody told me this was a debate thread ......had they warned me that this was a debate, I would have been more prepared. I thought it was just a disscussion of an interesting topic. My bad! Next time I will know that if it is your thread....that it is meant to be a debate! No hard feeling hope you have a "grandier" evening!

Jess642,

Chilis have been cultivated for the past 7,000 years, according to scientists. The problem is that before 500 years ago, they were not available to anyone outside of the Americas.

"Doesn't mean that I am not interested to learn how another arrives as their OPINION/ BELIEFS."

Now please, try to be open minded for a moment. If someone told you that the earth was flat, you wouldn't respond that it's round? I wasn't insulting anyone or attacking their beliefs, I was simply pointing out the flaws in their arguments. I swear that if you read my posts and everyone elses with an open mind, I wouldn't seem as terrible as you and others have made me out to be. Nothing I said was based on beliefs, but rather known facts. Chilis weren't introduced to the Old World until around 500 years ago. Evolution couldn't have had anything to do with it. It honestly has nothing to do with how hot and spicy the chilis are, it's the fact that capsaisin is toxic even in small doses to most mammals and no other mammal has the ability to detoxify capsaicin that humans have.

"Geeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzz....some things stay the same... "

Look, "Well spider, it's certainly not because "GOD" made it so " ...that's Invisible saying that all Creationists are 100% wrong. Where was your outrage when she posted that? She was, I believe, the first person to mention God in this thread. As I keep pointing out, I was asking a question, I wasn't pushing an agenda. Anyone here could have researched the subject (I spent maybe 30 minutes researching it) and answered from a knowledgeable perspective. But I won't have someone say that Piper Nigrum is related to chili peppers, because that is simply false.

Spider...a question....or three..or maybe more..

This topic was posted by you, so therefore, something sparked your interest enough to investigate it, and to look at a few interesting things attached to the topic. Would I be close to correct so far?

That then became a train of thought that sits parallel to your belief system?

And without making wild assumptions on my part...Do your beliefs lay somewhere in the Bible, God concepts, and less in the Darwinian concepts?

For all posters, not only Spider..

Something I have noticed is when some speak in absolutes, with no possible room for the structure of their theory to be explored or even refuted...bam....people get a little steamed.

Personally I get a little more cautious when a poster chooses the term 'debate', rather than 'discussion', or conversation...

I know I am capable of becoming inflamed easily, with absolutes, and debates...

Is there an easier way, without this kind of stuff happening?

Spider, apologies, that part of my post was directed to all, not specifically to you...the geeeez comments...

and I come with olive branch...although understand I have history here with you...in a much less appealing light on my part.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

But we can talk about one subject: "Chili Pepper as relates to human evolution" without discussing creationism.

"Something I have noticed is when some speak in absolutes, with no possible room for the structure of their theory to be explored or even refuted...bam....people get a little steamed. "

Exactly. If you read my post that followed Invisibles "It wasn't God" post, you will notice that I was a little ticked off. But if you backtrack from there, you won't find me making any absolute statements of belief, but absolute statements of fact based on science.

I have read the whole thread a few times, and am not going to condemn any...or all..is not my right...and no it is not a fellowship, a buddy thing...you have istory with different posters...so that is between you and them.



As to chilies...I do find it fascinating that we are the only mammal with this resistance to the toxicity of capsaicin...nd I appreciate one explanation of why this is so...

So non of the primates..none of that (I cant think of the correct word) species (?) are known to be able to tolerate capsaicin?



A small side note, Spider, your absolutes may be scientific facts, but were presented as your words...perhaps quoting the section relevant to your opinion? May help the errr tension that can occur?

actually dude it was a thinly veiled metaphor, and frankly i dont mind mocking people, Especially since fresh mountain air already gave further proof to my thoughts on capseisin in india
which was wht i was arguig 4 the most part

and honestly when did anyone call u a hitler?

Furthermore i chose not to combat ur ignorance when u (spider) said that there was no connection between hiv and aids that was proven nearly 20 years ago

lizardking19,

Sorry man, but capsaicin is only found in Chili Peppers. Chili Peppers were only found in South America until about 500 years ago. I'm absolutely serious.

http://www.foodnavigator.com/news/ng.asp?id=47807-why-heat-appeals
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Capsaicin, only found in chili peppers, is an extremely powerful and stable alkaloid produced as a crystal by glands at the junction of the pepper's placenta and pod walls, said Dave DeWitt in recent article for the American Chemical Society.
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http://ushotstuff.com/history.htm
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The New World genus Capsicum is a member of the Solanaceae, a large tropical family. Various authors ascribe some 25 species to the genus but this is only an estimate with anticipated new species to be discovered and named as exploration of the New World tropics expands. Exploration and plant collecting throughout the New World have given us a general but false impression of speciation in the genus. Humans unconsciously selected several taxa and in moving them toward domestication selected for the same morphological shapes, size, and colors in at least three distinct species. Without the advantage of genetic insight these early collectors and taxonomists named these many size, shape, and color forms as distinct taxa giving us a plethora of plant names that have only recently been sorted out reducing a long list of synonymy to four domesticated species. The early explorations in Latin America were designed to sample the flora of a particular region. Thus, any collection of Capsicum was a matter of chance and usually yielded a very limited sample of peppers from that area. Only with the advent of collecting trips designed to investigate a particular taxon did the range of variation within a species begin to be understood. One needs only to borrow specimens from the international network of herbaria to appreciate what a limited sample exists for most taxa, particularly for collections made prior to 1950. The domesticate Capsicum pubescens, for example, that is widespread in the mid-elevation Andes from Colombia to Bolivia, is barely represented in the herbarium collections of the world. Most herbarium collections of Capsicum, with the exception of Capsicum annuum holdings, are woefully inadequate. Furthermore, besides Capsicum annuum, very little attention has been paid to the many cultivars of each of the domesticated species. Often material is unusable because it was collected only in fruit neglecting the most important and critical characters associated with floral anatomy and morphology. With the advent of germplasm collecting programs during the past three decades, and concomitant improvement in herbarium collections we have come to better understand the nature of variation in the genus Capsicum. The increasing number of Capsicum herbarium specimens permits renewed interest and debate on the proper species classification.
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So on and so forth. Capsaisin is only found in genus capsicum and genus capsicum is native to the Americas.

Jess642,

"As to chilies...I do find it fascinating that we are the only mammal with this resistance to the toxicity of capsaicin...nd I appreciate one explanation of why this is so... "

All mammals can handle various amounts of capsaicin, but humans are the only species that chooses to eat chili peppers and we are also have a high tolerance for capsaicin.