It seems I need to be careful in this post.

After reading several posts on a particular religion and not seeing much evidence to support his so-called Ideas on the LDS faith I am asking those of you who have also been reading these posts what you feel about them?

I ask for one reason, it seems I would never be able to disprove his posts since most of the information is false, and since some of the information has some truth to it.

I would welcome some feedback on this so as to see if it would even be worth it to reply to any of the BS?

Some of you might say I am LDS, since I am defending this religion, in the true form of the religion I would have to say No, I am not Mormon, I do on occasion go to thier services, just as I go to other religious services when I feel the need (ie baptist,catholic,protestant, christian based religions)

I am curious how many of you would be able to defend your religious beliefs if it seemed someone spent the majority of the day attacking your religious beliefs?



G

I interpret most attacks on someone's beliefs as originating in envy or fear of those beliefs. Generally, the fear arises from a lack of knowledge or understanding. The best method of defending your beliefs is by educationg the person attacking them, if they are willing to be educated. Another point,it is difficult to "defend" your religious beliefs because they are the summation of your personal experiences and feelings. No one else can jusdge from your experiences because they have to base their judgements upon their own experiences. If someone chooses to attack my personal beliefs and standards, they may feel free to do so. I only pity them for being so close-minded as to feel they are superior to me because of theirs. I am not an atheist, Muslim, Jewish, nor Hindu, but, having associated with all of the previous, I respect their beliefs and do not attack them..As for the Christian aspect, Is not tolerance for all a major part of the christian dogma?

i might be mistaken but i think he said that he use to be apart of that religion and his statements are his take on his experiences. if you feel attacked gryphyn i would say ask him where he got his information from so that you have some references to go by. if he can't provide references for his info then i don't think you should worry because he most likely has the wrong idea.

Willy,
Yes tolerance is the basis for most if not all religious beliefs. Even those who have called for a Jihad use tolerance to put thier point across. It may be in-tolerance that they preach of the infidels, however it is still tolerance.

As for educating someone, since someone has made statments to attack a religion and claims to have been a member and is not searching for education, this leads me to believe he is attempting to sway some by using scare tactics to get his point across.

A point was made that each man in the LDS faith could become a god of his own universe. Do you know how silly that sounds? I would tend to believe that this statement was taken from one of the leaders talks on the subject of heaven, and was taken out of context to use in his own way.

I have been reading most his posts and since most of it is distorted in some way, I decided to let him know how I feel about distorting the truth.



G

King,
I don't feel attacked at all, I only wish to enlighten those that may read some of the BS, that the majority of it is BS. Make no mistake most of what he has posted is from outside sources that also make certain claims.

My main point is as I have explained to so many others is that the LDS faith is not much different from any other christian faith, with the exception that they are far more strict and in being strict they are not as forgiving to those who repeatedly refuse to follow a stringent religious regime.



G

I have noted that the poster claims to have been a member of the Mormon religion. I hae done a considerable quantity of research on many christian and non christian religions, in an effort to understand their practices and beliefs. I have found very few of the statements made in the posts to be verifiable in my previous research. What I have found about the Mormons and their lifesyle is that they live longer, divorce less, and have lower crime rates among their members than any other population sector in the US. That is partly what fascinates me about them.

I too have seen the indifferences in many posts here,, I am not one for posting in this section, because i at times am still searching my soul for the unknown answers, I was raised in a Christian home, yet my extended Family is Mormon I have attended services durning my summer vacations back home to Utah,, I for one can say When asking the Bishop in my home town questions as to right and wrong, Hoping to further my knowledge in the faith I was welcomed with open arms,, well most of the time he has known me since I was a child, lol,, I will continue to read and learn and grow here,, hoping that what enlightens me comes with knowledge and truth.

what is lsd faith?

The Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints (( Mormon )))


Miguel

sorry!!!!!!!!!! for my ignorance

oh Miguel not ignorance sweetie

hugs to you

I personally welcome all posts and any info for finding the information. How else can one come to their own decision/conclusion regarding what is correct and what is incorrect. If you find his information to be total BS, please refute it.

Gryphyn, Hi. I have somethings to say, and I hope you will read my entire post before you allow yourself to give in to any emotion.

I'm not here very often lately. So very much going on right now in my personal life. About a week ago I checked in, even if I don't post, I like to 'hear' my friends chatting. I noticed all the posts about Mormons so I checked them out to see what all the chatter was about. The first one was a single poster listing a bunch of information.

My take as I read through several of the posts was this.
Wow - someone who seems to have read and researched and found almost all the same data I had found. Now mind you, the last time I researched, before JSH, was about 23 years ago.

I actually have a spiral notebook of notes and misc comments I had made during my research. I did quite a bit of it because I was so intently enthralled with the psychological view of seeing exactly how a new religion is born and how it gathers followers. And here before me was a religion with unpresidented growth in a short time. Not only that, but it bagan and grew at a time not far removed from our lifetime. It's historical data is profound because it came into being and grew at a time in history that provided large amounts of data, including media, pictures, biagraphies, and history and backgrounds on all those important figures dealing with it's conception and growth. What's more it was all in my native language no need to interpret words or thoughts or ideas. I also have a few pamphlet type things from seminars I had visited.

The data I accumulated is in direct line with almost all that person had to say. My research was my own, I did not get all my information by word of mouth, it was documented, and most of it came from a public library in Missouri.

I even made a comment to one of his posts, regarding a couple whose names I had forgotten.

I then went to another topic, and it was more of the same, and another and to be honest I stopped reading. Here is why.

After having discussion with you, some regarding a bit of the information I had posted in reply to someone, I realized that my research was 23 years old and that in 23 years, it's possible that this religion has grown or changed or that the divisions within it have been profoundly altered.

Any of those reasons could cause someone to question where all that rediculous information comes from. I decided then, that YOU are not one of the Mormons of the original faith, and I saw no reason to confront or conflict with your views. They are your views, your beliefs, you are entitled to them and just like any other belief system, there are going to be changes.

I have always respected your views and attempting to attribute distant belief dogma to your faith made no sense since it is not what you encompassed as part of your belief.

I found much of what was posted to match much of my own research. But you and several others I've heard from in other forums, seem to have no connection with that information. I can not tell you why, and I would never argue with you these points. I'm just telling that much of what I read by that poster can be found in many other valid forms in information.

Also, just as there are religious fanatics, I think there are also 'anti'-religious fanatics, some of whom have a personnal ventetta against a particular belief. This is what I felt reading those posts, and I did not want any part of that.

I hope you know, it's because I have gotten to know you, that I took my leave of those topics.

We can not condemn one faith, simply because the religion it is associated with, has had past conflict.

Just as I do not hold LonlyWalker accountable or even required to know the past conflicts or history of the Catholic faith.

What you believe is yours and yours alone, and your actions are all that can speak to others about who you are. Your actions here have been worthy of friendship.

I don't imagine many got too far into those posts, it all came off a lot too preachy and with a bit too much anger behind the words. DONT FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE TO ARGUE ANY OF THOSE THINGS. They are obviously not part of your beliefs.

G..ya know in my world it don't matter what you are, what matters is heart and soul..you got both and share them greatly with your friends and family, which I am a part of. Give TG a big ol hug for me too

I will do that Poet, I hope you and yours are doing well.
{{{{{{{{{POET}}}}}}}}}
And you know we are of the same family, souls of a feather flock together.

Red,
I understand you have done reasearch on the LDS faith. It is as far as I know one of the few that has been as successful in these modern times, the growth is unbelievable.

I learned a little bit about you in our other posts and found you very open minded in regards to quite a few things and have learned not to jump the gun on your posts. I will make a few brief comments in regards to the Mormon faith and hope you understand most of the things I have posted in regards to this faith are not necessarily my views or opinion on this faith.

You are correct in saying I am not of the original Mormon Faith. I say that for one main reason, and to put it simply, the "Original Mormon" faith is not really being practiced by the Followers of the group of LDS that Followed Joseph Smith when the seperation occurred in the early days of this religion.

Those who followed Joseph Smith were chastised, beaten, killed, etc by those who would keep this new religion from gaining a foothold in christian society. As a result of things that occurred during the early days of this religion there were many modifications made to the original sect in order to try and fit in with mainstream christian society.

There are many journals that are available in any of the bookstores that are backed by the LDS church (Deseret Bookstores). They tell of the history of the church and why certain policies/practices were changed over the last 200 yrs or so. There is nothing to hide from anyone who wishesd to know the truth, as many passages tell seek and ye shall find.

As for me being Mormon? I was raised Mormon, of the original Joseph Smith Following and know the history and scriptures of the Bible and the Book of Mormon well enough to tell you they teach the same thing, however do I believe everything that the LDS faith teaches? The jury is still out. They both attempt to teach the ten commandments and the golden rule. There isn't much of a difference other than being written by authors who are not in the Bible. We all know that the bible tells of a second coming and that the apocolypse will be in the latter days. I don't rattle off scripture I think its a waste of time, however when I see someone make claims that they can not back up you know I will chime in.

It would be impossible for anyone in this day to say they follow the original LDS faith. In the 1970's and 80's the leadership decided to come out of the closet so to speak and as a result many changes have taken place in how they interpret scriptures and how they are dealing with protagonists. In the past the leadership closed it's eyes and didn't worry about what was going on outside the church. They were happy behind the closed doors and didn't care what the world felt of them.

The LDS faith has grown in leaps and bounds for a good reason, and to be honest with you I would like to be able to say I believe the entire teachings of the LDS faith.

I have read many books over the years and in my own reasearch have come to several conclusions. One of them being that when someone attacks any thing I have knowledge of to be false I will confront them. I have read some of the literature that was quoted in earlier posts, however if you do a little reasearch on those who wrote those books you just might find those books are those of the opinions of the author that wrote them, and in as much thier beliefs are not what the church doctrine was at that time, could they be considered false information too? I have knowledge of several people and very well know authors that made claims that never were policies of the Mormon faith, and as a result others take that false information and pass it on. After enough times being passed on it is believed to be something it isn't.

I think you can understand more of why I do what I do by this post. As for conflicting with my Beliefs? So far I have found my beliefs keep changing, like others I am still searching for the truth and where I find it is a mystery to me, so please don't feel that you should not be conflicting in your views. I am like others here who enjoy your views.

I found much of what was posted to match much of my own research. But you and several others I've heard from in other forums, seem to have no connection with that information. I can not tell you why, and I would never argue with you these points. I'm just telling that much of what I read by that poster can be found in many other valid forms in information.

I have read of what you speak, and much more, I love reading that is why I am still looking for more spiritual growth. Dig a little deeper and you might find out why I say most of it is BS.



G

Gryphyn, Thanks for giving my post attention. We both now agree that the mormon faith has had to struggle and survive many empasses. It's obvious that there had to have been changes.

As I said before, I came to study the LDS faith in an attempt to gain a foothold into the psychology of those who follow religious doctrine. What you have brought to light, makes following the faith that much more interesting.

Imagine all the change that has taken place within a fairly short time in just this one religion. And the growth shows that many were anxious to find a choice that was not so deeply rooted in a faith of corruption, the other Christian faiths.

I think, if the LDS faith follows historically the path of other faiths, given enough time and distance, even the LDS faith will become as full of holes and sects and differing views and opinions as the the ancient Christian faiths have become. But it will serve a purpose, should humanity live that long. For here is a faith with multitudes of documentation, proofs that can not be denied in the future. While the Christian faith can not prove all that it believes has roots in reality, things like birth records, and the multitudes of colaborating evidence, there can be no question about how a faith begins and how it grows. And in the end, if it continues on the same path, the LDS faith will also become as corrupted. It seems to be the nature of organized religions.

Don't get me wrong, there will always be the faithful, just as there are in Christianity and Judaism. And for them the value will be the main focus, God and their relationship to Him. That too, is the nature of faith.

For this reason, I will not condemn another for their beliefs, but I will fight any who attempt to use their faith to control a society and it laws. The freedom to have equality under the laws must be the way of the future. Any religion that focuses on placing their doctrine before societal equality in the law, will only serve to create more division, more hate and more violence.

Overall, I appreciate the Mormon faith above all others, because it answers everyone's question about faith - If God were so smart, why didn't he come at a time when mass media could have documented the events for history to record, so that there would be no question. Well here we have a faith whose beginnings were in that time. What a guide to how a new religion takes root.

There is a lesson in all this for everyone. Those who protest, the believs of another, too loudly have an agenda. It is to force acceptence of their own beliefs,by declaring the falseness of others. To fight against such claims only adds fuel to the fire, for no one cares, execpt those who are in the midst of the battle. The battle serves to bring bigotry and hate into the rest of society. I personnally think faith is an individual conviction and those who would slander it and falsify it, are not worthy of comment.

In an open discussion where minds are interested, curious, stating and supporting one's beliefs is a generous contribution, just as I have appreciated your contributions in these posts. However, anything else is an attempt to force one's views on another.

May logic and peace reign on us all and may all those with faith be allowed the continued freedoms to persue, as an individual, whatever gives them peace.

Once again Red we are in agreement. It may not be a total agreement of all that we discuss, however once again I take into submission all that we discuss and add it to the whole of the information gathered to try and make sense of a small portion of it.

I do like a good discourse from time to time.



G

Di writes:

"There is a lesson in all this for everyone. Those who protest, the believs of another, too loudly have an agenda. It is to force acceptence of their own beliefs,by declaring the falseness of others. To fight against such claims only adds fuel to the fire, for no one cares, execpt those who are in the midst of the battle. The battle serves to bring bigotry and hate into the rest of society. I personnally think faith is an individual conviction and those who would slander it and falsify it, are not worthy of comment."


Ahem.

From an American Atheist press release covering comments made by Gordon B. Hinckley, prophet and President of the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints:

"Mormon President
Calls for New
Battle Against Atheism

9/2/96

Speaking to a meeting of the American Legion yesterday, the President of the Mormon Church (Church of Latter-day Saints) called for a "battle" against Atheism, and conjured "an unequivocal trust in the power of the Almighty to guide and defend us." According to a report in today's Salt Lake Tribune, Gordon B. Hinckley praised veterans of various U.S. wars, "but warned that their sacrifices may be in vain unless the nation turns itself again to God."

The event was the 78th national convention of the American Legion being held in Salt Lake City. Hinckley praised those "who have been defenders of our liberty at great cost," but warned that "those battles are over and another battle goes on."

"The new battle is one against atheism," noted the Tribune.

President Hinckley remarked: "As you once knew so well, there are no atheists in foxholes. In times of extremity, we plead for and put our trust in a power mightier than ourselves." "

In 2004, in a speech while visiting a new Temple in NYC, he said:

"We've brought Zion to Babylon."


Lastly, although they've repudiated much of their past racism after being threatened with loss of their tax-free status (in the late sixties if I remember correctly), there are some pretty racist passages in the Book of Mormon. Google "Mormon Racism" for some unbiased references.

I've exchanged discourse over the years with local Mormons on the Internet, and I've found them to be no where near as accomodating to other points of view as you suggest.

YMMV.

-Kerry O.

Kerry O wrote: "there are some pretty racist passages in the Book of Mormon. "

Which is sad but not is it unusual? Many organized religions have a very "us" vs. "them" concept- eg. there are "chosen" people and "sinners" or "infidels".

I don't necesarily like it but I would say: religions are made and evolved by man. They are therefore subject to all the weaknesses and ignorence and hatred that is in those that made it.

This is why I personally tend to avoid organized religions, although I feel that the concept of coming together to discuss morals and build a community seems like such a nice thing...I havenot seen it practiced often.

My own church is quite disorganized- a free for all, anything goes as long as you respect others kind of affair.
________

The issue I did have with these posts was that there were SO many about identical topics which, I felt, drowned out the voices of other posters, other topics. I asked the poster to stop making so many simultaneous, similar, threads. I don't want to hurt anyones feelings or attack anyone but enough was too much imo.

Kerry O A good fit against my post, was it not?

Ain't that just a kick in the head. Perhaps I should send them my rhetoric!

There are so many like LonlyWalker, Gryphyn, even myself, a lesbian athiest, and others, who associate with a heading or a label that sets them up to be viewed that way. We can't help but have a preconceived idea about an individual when we hear they associate themselves with a particular label.

At JSH, many of us have been fortunate to have been posting long enough to recognize that some people still think for themselves. Even though a label is present or admitted to, it does not always mean they agree with every notion that falls into that catagory.

Getting to know poeple takes communication and time. The more we leave preconceived notions behind, the better we are for it.