Topic: DRIVING A MOTOR VEHICLE" IS A CITIZENS RIGHT
Dodo_David's photo
Mon 06/17/13 12:54 PM
Seems some on here have no idea what being "free" or having "rights endowed by their creator", or "unalienable" means


Wow. That statement seriously begs the question.

msharmony's photo
Mon 06/17/13 12:57 PM
Edited by msharmony on Mon 06/17/13 12:58 PM
'free' is a cliche

life is not 'free' it comes with consequence and responsibility

'free' only means there can be no outside obstruction to that BASIC action or a complete BAN or restriction on that action,,

I can travel without a license, by traveling with someone who HAS one,,,so my right to travel is not impeded when I am asked to have a license TO OPERATE a vehicle,,,


and how does the 'creator' endow a right to a man made feature?,,,,''

perhaps some dont know what 'endowed by their creator' means,,,,

Dodo_David's photo
Mon 06/17/13 01:00 PM

'free' is a cliche

life is not 'free' it comes with consequence and responsibility

'free' only means there can be no outside obstruction to that BASIC action or a complete BAN or restriction on that action,,

I can travel without a license, by traveling with someone who HAS one,,,so my right to travel is not impeded when I am asked to have a license TO OPERATE a vehicle,,,


and how does the 'creator' endow a right to a man made feature?,,,,''

perhaps some dont know what 'endowed by their creator' means,,,,


:thumbsup:

Conrad_73's photo
Mon 06/17/13 01:10 PM
Freedom



What is the basic, the essential, the crucial principle that differentiates freedom from slavery? It is the principle of voluntary action versus physical coercion or compulsion.

Freedom, in a political context, has only one meaning: the absence of physical coercion.


Since knowledge, thinking, and rational action are properties of the individual, since the choice to exercise his rational faculty or not depends on the individual, man’s survival requires that those who think be free of the interference of those who don’t. Since men are neither omniscient nor infallible, they must be free to agree or disagree, to cooperate or to pursue their own independent course, each according to his own rational judgment. Freedom is the fundamental requirement of man’s mind.

A rational mind does not work under compulsion; it does not subordinate its grasp of reality to anyone’s orders, directives, or controls; it does not sacrifice its knowledge, its view of the truth, to anyone’s opinions, threats, wishes, plans, or “welfare.” Such a mind may be hampered by others, it may be silenced, proscribed, imprisoned, or destroyed; it cannot be forced; a gun is not an argument. (An example and symbol of this attitude is Galileo.)

It is from the work and the inviolate integrity of such minds—from the intransigent innovators—that all of mankind’s knowledge and achievements have come. It is to such minds that mankind owes its survival.

Foggy metaphors, sloppy images, unfocused poetry, and equivocations—such as “A hungry man is not free”—do not alter the fact that only political power is the power of physical coercion.


Freedom, in a political context, means freedom from government coercion. It does not mean freedom from the landlord, or freedom from the employer, or freedom from the laws of nature which do not provide men with automatic prosperity. It means freedom from the coercive power of the state—and nothing else.


The issue is not slavery for a “good” cause versus slavery for a “bad” cause; the issue is not dictatorship by a “good” gang versus dictatorship by a “bad” gang. The issue is freedom versus dictatorship.

Do not be misled . . . by an old collectivist trick which goes like this: there is no absolute freedom anyway, since you are not free to murder; society limits your freedom when it does not permit you to kill; therefore, society holds the right to limit your freedom in any manner it sees fit; therefore, drop the delusion of freedom—freedom is whatever society decides it is.

It is not society, nor any social right, that forbids you to kill—but the inalienable individual right of another man to live. This is not a “compromise” between two rights—but a line of division that preserves both rights untouched. The division is not derived from an edict of society—but from your own inalienable individual right. The definition of this limit is not set arbitrarily by society—but is implicit in the definition of your own right.

Within the sphere of your own rights, your freedom is absolute.



http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/freedom.html






Why a Permit to drive on Public Highways!
Because you ain't the only one driving there,Smartiepants!laugh
It ain't your private Road!

Sojourning_Soul's photo
Mon 06/17/13 01:12 PM
Edited by Sojourning_Soul on Mon 06/17/13 01:13 PM
slaphead

And you profess to be an American? I won't get into the religious aspects of it......

Not talking about you Con..... bigsmile

no photo
Mon 06/17/13 01:49 PM

'free' is a cliche

life is not 'free' it comes with consequence and responsibility

'free' only means there can be no outside obstruction to that BASIC action or a complete BAN or restriction on that action,,

I can travel without a license, by traveling with someone who HAS one,,,so my right to travel is not impeded when I am asked to have a license TO OPERATE a vehicle,,,


and how does the 'creator' endow a right to a man made feature?,,,,''

perhaps some dont know what 'endowed by their creator' means,,,,



life is not 'free' it comes with consequence and responsibility


Freedom to live is a natural right.

Having responsibility or experiencing consequences of your actions has nothing at all to do with it.

I created (manifested) myself, and I claim natural freedom to live. No one has the right to take my life from me.

That is what freedom means. The freedom to live without being at the mercy of some master who has the right to take your life when ever he pleases. That is called slavery.

I am free.






no photo
Mon 06/17/13 01:50 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 06/17/13 01:53 PM
Conrad:

Freedom, in a political context, means freedom from government coercion. It does not mean freedom from the landlord, or freedom from the employer, or freedom from the laws of nature which do not provide men with automatic prosperity. It means freedom from the coercive power of the state—and nothing else.

drinker drinker :banana:

It is not society, nor any social right, that forbids you to kill—but the inalienable individual right of another man to live.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

msharmony's photo
Mon 06/17/13 01:51 PM


'free' is a cliche

life is not 'free' it comes with consequence and responsibility

'free' only means there can be no outside obstruction to that BASIC action or a complete BAN or restriction on that action,,

I can travel without a license, by traveling with someone who HAS one,,,so my right to travel is not impeded when I am asked to have a license TO OPERATE a vehicle,,,


and how does the 'creator' endow a right to a man made feature?,,,,''

perhaps some dont know what 'endowed by their creator' means,,,,



life is not 'free' it comes with consequence and responsibility


Freedom to live is a natural right.

Having responsibility or experiencing consequences of your actions has nothing at all to do with it.

I created (manifested) myself, and I claim natural freedom to live. No one has the right to take my life from me.

That is what freedom means. The freedom to live without being at the mercy of some master who has the right to take your life when ever he pleases. That is called slavery.

I am free.









I agree, life would be one 'freedom' we are endowed with

and if thats THE definition of 'free' to you,, than we are free

the conditions of how we live amongst others though, is not God endowed, but constructed by the environment and society we live in,,,

no photo
Mon 06/17/13 01:54 PM



'free' is a cliche

life is not 'free' it comes with consequence and responsibility

'free' only means there can be no outside obstruction to that BASIC action or a complete BAN or restriction on that action,,

I can travel without a license, by traveling with someone who HAS one,,,so my right to travel is not impeded when I am asked to have a license TO OPERATE a vehicle,,,


and how does the 'creator' endow a right to a man made feature?,,,,''

perhaps some dont know what 'endowed by their creator' means,,,,



life is not 'free' it comes with consequence and responsibility


Freedom to live is a natural right.

Having responsibility or experiencing consequences of your actions has nothing at all to do with it.

I created (manifested) myself, and I claim natural freedom to live. No one has the right to take my life from me.

That is what freedom means. The freedom to live without being at the mercy of some master who has the right to take your life when ever he pleases. That is called slavery.

I am free.









I agree, life would be one 'freedom' we are endowed with

and if thats THE definition of 'free' to you,, than we are free

the conditions of how we live amongst others though, is not God endowed, but constructed by the environment and society we live in,,,



I think you should carefully read Conrad's post.
THAT IS WHAT FREEDOM IS ABOUT.



msharmony's photo
Mon 06/17/13 02:04 PM


its why I have a 'drivers' license and not a 'traveling' license


and a way to identify that we are of the legal age (certainly driving is not a universal RIGHT which should be withheld until the age of 18 or which should be granted to grade schoolers,,lol)

and have the proper knowledge of operating the vehicle (Certainly wouldnt want bus drivers using their RIGHT to drive to transport my kids if they dont know how to drive)


So you are saying people have no common sense and the gov't MUST dictate, award and control our rights as they see fit....not our constitution or our creator?

Then why do we vote? Sounds like a dictatorship to me.... not the Republic we were awarded by the blood of our patriots



constitution was WRITTEN BY THE GOVERNMENT,,lol

it relates to FEDERAL LAWS< and whats not SPECIFICALLY there is up to the states

and common sense has NOTHING to do with operating a motor vehicle,,,


we vote in the people we want, and if they dont do what we want than we gripe and complain about 'freedoms',,,,,because of course, there is going to be a decision one day that will please all 300 million americans and what they feel they should be 'free' to do,,,laugh

if it was a dictatorship, why would there be 'promises' broken?

our government is over five hundred people who are all ELECTED by americans,, time to deal with it as a reflection of AMERICANS And not some outcast 'dictator' group

no photo
Mon 06/17/13 02:17 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 06/17/13 02:18 PM
It is not a dictatorship yet.

But all the laws and ammunition are in place for it to become one in a New York minute.

The government and the NSA and the IRS are all armed to the teeth. Even the Social Security Administration folks are armed to the teeth. All the while they are working to disarm the citizens.

We are the enemy and they continue to monitor and watch us as the enemy.

These are the facts.


msharmony's photo
Mon 06/17/13 02:21 PM
facts because they are found on google,,,,,


love that internet,,,

no photo
Mon 06/17/13 02:29 PM

facts because they are found on google,,,,,


love that internet,,,



So are you implying that the Internet has no facts at all?

Where then would you look for facts? A library? What particular library? How old do you think the books in the library are?

I just love it when people resort to making fun of the Internet and imply that it is not a reliable source of information.


no photo
Mon 06/17/13 02:30 PM
P.S. FYI "google" is simply a SEARCH ENGINE. It is not "the Internet."

Its a search engine.


Sojourning_Soul's photo
Mon 06/17/13 02:33 PM
Edited by Sojourning_Soul on Mon 06/17/13 02:41 PM

our government is over five hundred people who are all ELECTED by americans,, time to deal with it as a reflection of AMERICANS And not some outcast 'dictator' group


How long has it been since "people" were actually the ones who "decided" who the "nominees" should be for office?

The banks, wall street, their media, and small groups of "appointed" elitists select who will run, those selected are then vetted and sold to us by a $$$ sponsored media who cater to the almighty dollar and NOT so much the will of the people.

If you think that isn't so, recall the Ron Paul campaigns where he was black-balled by the media, conspired against by the "old guard" of his own party, yet the only one who has for years warned of everything that has happened and is happening in our current events of today.

Because he was able to proceed against all odds, the RNC even passed new rules to prevent such a thing happening again! Now "THEY" will choose who the candidates will be!

The 2 party system controls the rules, and "the peoples choice" is NOT invited to the game!

Some choice....death or torture.... the results are pretty much the same.

Baron Von Rothschild said it best.... "Give me the power to print the nations currency and I care not who makes its laws."

Or David Rockerfeller....

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected the promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world-government. The supranational sovereignty if an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries"--

David Rockefeller in an address to a Trilateral Commission meeting
in June of 1991

msharmony's photo
Mon 06/17/13 02:37 PM

P.S. FYI "google" is simply a SEARCH ENGINE. It is not "the Internet."

Its a search engine.





totally aware

the INTERNET provides us with plenty of search engines,, and plenty of false information/factoids/ opinions posing as facts

to go along with them,,,

msharmony's photo
Mon 06/17/13 02:39 PM


facts because they are found on google,,,,,


love that internet,,,



So are you implying that the Internet has no facts at all?

Where then would you look for facts? A library? What particular library? How old do you think the books in the library are?

I just love it when people resort to making fun of the Internet and imply that it is not a reliable source of information.





the internet has facts, the way the streets have drugs

of course they are there , in all the nonsense and filth,,,,but unfortunately far too many dont know the diff between the former and the latter,,,

msharmony's photo
Mon 06/17/13 02:40 PM


our government is over five hundred people who are all ELECTED by americans,, time to deal with it as a reflection of AMERICANS And not some outcast 'dictator' group


How long has it been since "people" were actually the ones who "decided" who the "nominees" should be for office?

The banks, wall street, their media, and small groups of "appointed" elitists select who will run, those selected are then vetted and sold to us by a $$$ sponsored media who cater to the almighty dollar and NOT so much the will of the people.

If you think that isn't so, recall the Ron Paul campaigns where he was black-balled by the media, conspired against by the "old guard" of his own party, yet the only one who has for years warned of everything that has happened and is happening in our current events of today.

Because he was able to proceed against all odds, the RNC even passed new rules to prevent such a thing happening again! Now "THEY" will choose who the candidates will be!

The 2 party system controls the rules, and "the peoples choice" is NOT invited to the game!

Some choice....death or torture.... the results are pretty much the same.

Baron Von Rothschild said it best.... "Give me the power to print the nations currency and I care not who makes its laws."



'the people' get what they vote for , its their choice

there is the option to write in, if the 'people' were ever so terribly disappointed with the dozens of choices they ALREADY Get in the process,,,

Sojourning_Soul's photo
Mon 06/17/13 02:42 PM
Edited by Sojourning_Soul on Mon 06/17/13 02:43 PM



our government is over five hundred people who are all ELECTED by americans,, time to deal with it as a reflection of AMERICANS And not some outcast 'dictator' group


How long has it been since "people" were actually the ones who "decided" who the "nominees" should be for office?

The banks, wall street, their media, and small groups of "appointed" elitists select who will run, those selected are then vetted and sold to us by a $$$ sponsored media who cater to the almighty dollar and NOT so much the will of the people.

If you think that isn't so, recall the Ron Paul campaigns where he was black-balled by the media, conspired against by the "old guard" of his own party, yet the only one who has for years warned of everything that has happened and is happening in our current events of today.

Because he was able to proceed against all odds, the RNC even passed new rules to prevent such a thing happening again! Now "THEY" will choose who the candidates will be!

The 2 party system controls the rules, and "the peoples choice" is NOT invited to the game!

Some choice....death or torture.... the results are pretty much the same.

Baron Von Rothschild said it best.... "Give me the power to print the nations currency and I care not who makes its laws."



'the people' get what they vote for , its their choice

there is the option to write in, if the 'people' were ever so terribly disappointed with the dozens of choices they ALREADY Get in the process,,,


rofl And you call that a choice? slaphead

Not with todays corporate sponsored media!

msharmony's photo
Mon 06/17/13 02:50 PM
yes, I know

if it doesnt end up the way I want it,, even if I had 20 choices

it wasnt a 'choice'