thats why I said 'consentual'

if you find someone who will consent to being enslaved, go for it,,,

and IF you were to follow the actual instruction of Christ (who we must know to see God), it would NOT be okay to do things to other sinners when we are sinners ourself

but in any case, ,the bible is 66 books long,, Im not gonna continue the back and forth over isolated verses here and there

I will repeat from earlier,, I cant reveal God to you, I can only explain how God reveals himself to me

choose to believe or not,,,,thats your free will,,,

"consenting 'slaves' is not immoral,,,we still have BDSM lifestyles today,, with RESPECT Between master and consentual slave"

"Besides if those accusing God of killing and being unloving; who were they who came to destruction? HOMOSEXUAL offenders. Adultorators. Idolaters. Devil worshippers. Liars. Purgerors. Thieves. Murderers. The proud. The arrogant. Etc etc etc."


"So exodus 21:20-21 is treating slaves with decency?I guess hitting them with a rod is fine as long as you don't kill them."



"yes, Corrective discipline is a decent thing, if its not ABUSIVE,, which is a different thing altogether,,"





Wow... just wow... some of the things you religious folk say is just.. wow, lol. /shakes head

For one, I'm done reading any more of onlyson's posts, he's clearly just another bigot whom does more to make religion look bad than I do; and I've only one thing to say to him and others like him, PENIS PENIS PENIS!!!! Squirm bigots!

Sorry for that but I repay immature bigotry with immature spite.



According to msharmony god condones BDSM, wow, lol; and beating with a rod is ok as long as the person did something wrong. Msharmony, I'm sure you've sinned at least some in your life, I'll be by later to beat you with a rod, long as you're ok with that, which I'm sure you are because your god said it's alright.(note: I'm speaking mostly in joking terms, I'm hardly the violent type, thank my lack of religion for that.)

"and santa clause has also not been around as long as God and the Bible,, so the comparison still just does more to prove that the BIBLE and GOD are just a bit more significant and potentally 'right' and true,,,"

So? There's gods that have been around longer than yours, so by your strain of logic, your god is inferior to those that were made up before he was.


And now, a few bible verses that will(conveniently)never be quoted by religious folk in such a debate:


Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.

Translation: Rape within a marriage is A OK by god's standards :)

But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?”

Translation: Gang up on helpless woman and throw rocks at her, sure why not?!

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

Translation: god is a bigot.

“Brothers and fathers, hear the defense that I now make before you.” And when they heard that he was addressing them in the Hebrew language, they became even more quiet. And he said: “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city, educated at the feet of Gamaliel according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as all of you are this day. I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and delivering to prison both men and women, as the high priest and the whole council of elders can bear me witness. From them I received letters to the brothers, and I journeyed toward Damascus to take those also who were there and bring them in bonds to Jerusalem to be punished.

Translation: I'm sure this was some oldschool form of political movement, they either needed the land or perhaps just an excuse to kill as a barbaric form of entertainment(remember they didn't have TV's back then).


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Translation: Man created the bible the word is god, man made god.

which none are? How would you be in a position to make that statement? Or are you simply parroting an idea from a man written and alleged "god inspired" book?

If I say I am sinless, who are you to know any different? And if I am sinless why would that give me the right to spill the blood of another?

None of what you preach and parrot makes any real logical sense.

It's not necassarily "bdsm", Bdsm also involves bondage. Nobody nor anything has said it's ok to tie your child down and beat the living day lights out of them. And also that has absolutely nothing to do with "sparing the rod" or "disciplining" your child. Discipline is a punishment brought on by oneself from an action that one did, therefore teaching a child this at an early age teaches them that you are accountable for the things you do and to understand a negative result of an action(s) they may have done.

And also take note of where some of these verses are taken from, context again people, context. Exodus is old testament, therefore one was punished for one's sins by one's peers. Thus the slaves were punished for their disobedience.

And also this is referring to slaves, not just a moral standard in general. Slavery then was not the same as we experienced in the recent while or even still today I'm assuming in some countries. Slavery then was for 6 years, then the slave was to be set free.

And the rest of your post was pure belittling of the belief therein and will not be responded to.

your translations seem like leaps,, but to each their own,,,

as I said,, I know how God reveals himself to me,, I cant reveal him to you,,,,,

well, people have different ideas of what is 'logical',,,


I can read posts in these threads that prove my point about noone being sinless

covetous, prideful,,etc,,,

but,, again,, to each their own

Because again, wherein this information is brought eg., exodus right now, old testament/old covenant. People were judged by their peers. And if you were to say you're sinless, we are not to say any different, kinda taking things out of context there. People were punished for sins they were physically seen doing, not just from assuming they did or might have, or from hearsay someone saying they did whatever it is in question.

And being sinless doesn't give you the right to do anything. It's not that the sinless people were ganging up on the sinful people. It's again someone was seen doing a crime and was punished.

No one is sinless. That is why in fact I believe as the world grew in population, and started living more ungodly lives, that people weren't "righteous" to punish another for their sins. Therefore the Word took on a physical form to do the punishment himself with a righteous hand eg., Jesus.

And since the Word had taken on a physical form eg., Jesus, the Word could carry out the punishment himself, so that is why in the first covenant people were judged by their peers and in the second covenant we are judged purely by Jesus and instructed to no longer judge others.

Yes, illogical people think they are logical. Just like truly insane people have no clue how insane they are.




No. Nothing proves your illogical point.
and..You are AVOIDING MY QUESTION.

How about answering it? Logically please.

If I were sinless, why would that give me the right to spill someone's blood?

Also, if Jesus washed you of all your sins, then you are sinless right? If you are not, then Jesus did not, or was unable to wash you of your sins.

If you were washed of your sins, how long do you stay free from sin or sinless? One second? Until your next movement or thought or breath. Are you a sinner just for having a thought or taking a breath?

It doesn't. Just again in the old covenant we were judged by your peers.



Yes, the one's that have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior are now sinless, for they have been washed clean of their sins. We are sinless not because of ourselves but because of what Jesus did for us on the cross.



As long as we repent from the sin, it will remain cleaned. "Repent" means to refrain from doing something.

noone said it would, and its irrelevant due to mankind not being sinless


the argument is made to further explain the hypocrisy involved in such a behavior against another


its like saying 'if you dont like being hit you shouldnt hit someone',,that doesnt mean the speaker condones those who DO like being hit to do it either,,, it just paints a picture to help the listener understand how they affect others,,,,

JEsus didnt wash me of sin, Jesus paid the PRICE for sin,, there is a difference

for those who ACCEPT/AKNOWLEDGE/RESPECT his sacrifice , the PRICE of sin is paid,,,,,


this really does become like a bible study class, and I never purport to be a bible study teacher,,,,,

the book is long and complex, the answers are difficult to receive just reviewing isolated texts,,,,,

Cowboy, you also stated: No one is sinless. How would you know this, or are you just parroting an idea programmed into your head over and over and over.

First, to define sin as "disobedience of God" you have to define God. No one has ever done that to my satisfaction.

Also, if Jesus washed a person sins away as so many Christian claim, then they are sinless right? If they are not, then how many times does Jesus have to die on the cross for their sins?

The answer is every day. That is why many Churches build idols of a man nailed to a pole or cross displayed, and that is why churches constantly preach how Jesus died for our sins.

If you accept Jesus, you sins are washed away they say. Therefore you are sinless are you not?

>>>>>"JEsus didnt wash me of sin, Jesus paid the PRICE for sin,, there is a difference"

Sorry to hear that. I hear a different story from other Christians.
Their sins were washed away. I'm surprised you have never heard that.

Again, taking words out of context. Yes everyone has sinned, we are all sinners. But where one is sinful or sinless is where one's heart is and if they accepted Jesus as Lord and savior.

All have been offered the gift of Jesus' blood that was shed on Calvery.

It's not as simple as just saying you accept Jesus as Lord then continue on your same life style and think you could be sinless. One accepting Jesus as Lord will then follow his commandments. Yes, we will slip time to time and make mistakes sinning. God offers forgiveness of this when one repents from doing that sin in question.

So therefore we are all sinner/sinful, but through the blood of Jesus we are cleansed and made sinless.

not in reference to christ, in reference to baptism sometimes, it is a 'washing' away

just like a shower washes away dirt,, but we can still get dirty again,,,,,,,

If that were a good analogy, then people would get baptized every week. They don't.

Even so, if their sins are 'washed away' then they are sinless at that point and now they apparently can righteously spill the blood of others.

Hebrews 8:12
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

You're sins are washed dear.

Acts 22:16
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

No, they wouldn't get baptized every week. One must for repent, THEN get baptized.

And no they can't righteously spill the blood of others, for we are told JUDGE NOT. So for one to judge another, they would then be tainted by sin and would no longer be sinless till they repented and asked for forgiveness.

So therefore we are all sinner/sinful, but through the blood of Jesus we are cleansed and made sinless.

There is the CONTRADICTION.

First, "we are all sinners"

Second. "through the blood of Jesus we are cleansed and made sinless."

Therefore Jesus has to continue to "die for our sins" constantly (metaphorically) to remain sinless.

And that is what Christians do. They "metaphorically" crucify Christ constantly so they don't have to pay for (or be responsible) for their own sins.

I understand repentance. When a person repents, they sincerely realize their crime or sin and they sincerely change their ways on a very deep level. They become a new "sinless" person. They are changed, and they are new. At that point they can remain sinless. If (the church) insists that it is impossible to remain sinless after being cleansed of sin then they are assuming something they cannot possibly have any knowledge of. They do not know what is in a person's heart.

So if I claim to be "sinless" you cannot tell me something like "everyone is a sinner." You do not know that.

So now you contradict yourself. You said previously that only the sinless can spill the blood of others.

And why do you presume that a sinless person who spills the blood of another has made a judgement? You cannot know what is in anyone's mind or heart. You assume. Perhaps this sinless person is carrying out the wishes of the Almighty God.