Some abusive homes it is hard for the one that is being abuse to leave. They can be normally enslaved be fear.

Now some are not. Another co-worker of mine use to let her baby’s daddy stay with her. Those two would get in fistfights, and at times he would be dragged off to jail for the night. I do not feel sorry for the guy, he would not go buy his baby some milk when they were out but would go get beer when it was gone. I really don’t know who threw the first punch in the relationship

Hearing from some of the police, many really don’t want to get involved. If they go arrest the guy, it is not uncommon for the woman to jump on the officer’s case. One lady officer says that many fights are started by the woman throwing the first punch. Now I like what one local officer does. When he response he tells them for one to leave the house and let everything cool down or he is taking both sides in.

I know I am a little of topic and these are usually people that stand their ground and choose to be in that relationship. My anger comes more to those that mentally destroy a woman that have become too afraid to fight. But then I believe that self-defense should be taught from grade school to high school.

I will not defend the abhorrent actions of guys who get off being abusive, either verbally or physically. They are not men and have no concept what being an adult is let alone being a man. That being said, it is as much the woman's fault for allowing it. At the first sign of controlling nature and abusive behavior she needs to lay down the law. Where are her limits? Did she ever tell him that type of behavior is unacceptable? Did she leave after it happened the first time?

When it is adult to adult abuse, like slavery, is a choice. I grant you that the choice between slavery and death sucks, it is still a choice! The same is true for abusive relationships. I know men who ***** about not getting enough sex after they got married. Again it is a choice! You made it, you deal with it.

Sorry to be a hard *** about it.

Not ONE of you have any idea what you are talking about whatsoever on this topic. You certainly don't sound like you have one ounce of experience in this area.

I love how everyone thinks they are friggin doctors to give your opinions so decidedly. Go witness an abusive relationship, then come back and post here.

I've seen women think there is no choice but to become lesbian after a severe case of verbal and physical abuse. With the world changing into a place where you're free to chose your sexual orientation, people that haven't been abused make the choice to be gay/lesbian.

The affects of emotional and physical abuse are complex to just say the least. There is a psychological aspect you've all missed. The abuse is NOT the woman's fault in any way at all. She is (typically) physically and emotionally the "weaker" sex, and obviously trusted her male to love and cherish her. He must have at one time to have fallen for him, and give her heart away. Love bares all things...love hopes and perseveres to the point that even with a massively abusive man, she will stick there HOPING he will change...her heart has given her NO OTHER choices. These men BRAINWASH and control these women in a way that you'd have to experience to believe. These women can't even SEE after prolonged abuse.

Then there's financial hold back. Most people CANNOT live on one income all the sudden. This issue is not basic enough to entertain the idea the woman can "just leave". And don't tell me about shelters for battered women. You go pack all your crap without your abusive man knowing it, and get it all in storage before he gets home...then go take your a$$ to the shelter and cry your tears on their filthy public pillow...oh yea... then get up and go to work. Psh... these forums... SO EASY to sit at a keyboard and be know-it-all's. Better NOT to speak if you have no experience on the topic than to share on a factless opinion. Your heartless words that abused women are also to blame makes you NO better than her abuser.

Educate people.

<SIGH>
You know you are not happy. You know he is treating you badly. You know you'd like him to change. Your choice is to stay there and be a doormat waiting for a miracle to change Dracula into Prince Charming, or to walk away saying "when you change to being nice look me up". IT IS STILL A CHOICE!

Inability to make a decision does not negate that a decision has been made. Indecision is also a decision. The relative "value" of your decision is told in the outcome. What is the definition of insanity?: To do the same thing over and over and expect different results.

If turning queer is your decision then be happy with it. If living in poverty is better than being abused then be happy with it. But quit whining about your indecision and DO something about it. At the very least you'll increase your self esteem by the effort.

Are you a doctor? Abuse Counselor? Psychiatrist?
You are also,.....a man..... this topic, of course, would seem different for you. You're not thinking with the mind of a woman.
So, you'll just have to take a back seat.
Don't assume I am speaking of myself....did I say "I" in there anywhere? Just think about what I wrote....Keep your mind open

True...

Yep; you are right that unless you have been through it yourself; it's easy to stand back and tell people what they should do. I know when my ex abused me that the right thing was to call the police. I did it but it was the hardest thing I ever had to do. I don't regret my choice but it didn't make things easier. I was lucky as I was the sole owner of my house and had a good paying job; plus I have spent most of my life being on my own but most women aren't in the same place as I am. I saw my mom live with an abusive man all her life but she didn't dare leave him as she had no employable skills; plus she was frightened that she might get deported back to Germany.

Bull!
You are equating the way you (a woman) will feel about the decision or the way she feels about the outcome of the decision with having no decision. That reasoning is unreasonable.

The moment she (any woman-or man) can realize that the decision, the choice, was bad, then and only then, do they have a opportunity to make a better decision. Quit equating the outcome of a decision to discount the fact that it was a decision. You talk as if she had no choice. I say BS! She does have a choice. Even though she may not want to make it, even though she may not like the two choices she is facing, even though both choices are different grades of bad, do not become delusional that she had no choice. Like I said before, indecision IS a decision.

True not everyone has the ability to get out of such relationship. My friend that said she was polysexual had the ability to kick the guy out of her house but not everyone has that. The same with my co-worker and her baby’s daddy. Now my co-worker had a family support and I told my polysexual friend that my best friend and I would personal remove the guy if need be.

True in the end it is the woman’s choice to break free or stay, it is important to have friends and family that are willing to support and make that support known.

Oh and Navygirl, I'm not telling anyone what to do. I'm pointing out that their actions are a direct result of their decisions. That no matter what they do have a choice. The smart person figures out that certain decision making practices are not working to make them happy, and then they change how they make those decisions. WHAT they decide is up to the individual. Just never say you had no choice.

Aghree metalshadow, a personal support group or a really close friend can aid in the decision making process. Maybe even help to point out past errors in judgement. All that is true. But the decision is still for the individual to make. They still have a choice.

Well said. That is the whole thing of having someone to say with be it family or friends. My mom wasn't allowed to go out and have friends and most of her family was too far away to go to. Mostly; my mom was scared as my dad did threaten to kill her and on several occassions he did choke her. She honestly did not know what to do. who to turn to; or even if there was support for her position. Here in Calgary; when I had my ex arrested for abuse; I was called by about 4 different agencies. The police even have a special unit for abuse cases; so support has come a long way since my mom's day.

Again; you have never been placed in that position; so it's real easy to stand on the side line and give advice but you being a man will never know what that woman is going through.

Just an observation but.... You sound pretty unnecessarily defensive on the topic... for me that looks like you may know more about the male role of abuse than I first thought. psst! .....it's showing lol

Fine. You all are talking about the consequences of the decision and/or saying that the assumed impact of the decision will alter the decision. There is no question that all these facets may come into play and seem to point her into making a decision. Agreed. no question about it. But if you keep making decisions that land you in the same spot as before, then you obviously need to learn how to make better decisions. She still has a choice. Just because she hasn't learned to make different decisions doesn't mean she had no choice.

I am arguing that some culpability need rest with the one making the decisions for not learning with each poor decision made. We all have a choice. I know a lot of people, both men and women who make really bad decisions. They too try to say they had no choice. I say BS to them as well. They had a choice, and made a bad one.

Typical response. You can't refute the logic so attack me and call me an abuser to discredit what I say. You are wrong in your conclusion as you have been throughout this debate. This is a disgusting and immoral statement to say nothing of being off topic. But go ahead if it makes you sleep better at night. I though I was debating an intelligent entity.

I believe many people are caring and want to help give the women the support they need to get out of these relationships. Now where I live, you can find a church on about every corner and many are opening to help any type of need.

Most people, least here in America, have a heart and will help. Some believe through government, other believe through charity groups.

Again; you don't understand and there is no way to make you understand what women like my mom went through. She was terrified for her life and had no support system. You simply don't get it and you never will. No point in arguing with you about this anymore.

Yes; we have come along way. I remember going to school with bruises on my arms and face but my teachers never questioned it; now the police would be called within in minutes of seeing that on a child.

Or like Arnold in Kindergarten Cop where he walks out the school and punches the bastard that abusive the child and his mother.