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| Topic: The Second Amendment and gun control | |
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YOU are misinterpreting both clauses with respect to how they relate to each other and you also confuse the meaning of the word militia as it translates in the 2nd amendment. Please explain. How am I misinterpreting the clauses and the meaning of the word "militia"? I find the way you are hammering on about 'US" gun control issues rather extreme. Notwithstanding the fact that I disagree with you on that point, you are welcome to hold any opinion of my views that you wish. You have a right to your opinion and I would never deny you that right; in fact, I'd fight for it. I thought it was a bit dated. Sorry to hear that. Obviously you are not a student of history. |
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Edited by
JustDukkyMkII
on
Sat 12/22/12 05:46 PM
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where were you people when we had the patriot act shoved up our a$$es? They were sitting on THEIR a$$e$ doing NOTHING about it...That's where they were. |
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Edited by
Leigh2154
on
Sat 12/22/12 07:11 PM
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YOU are misinterpreting both clauses with respect to how they relate to each other and you also confuse the meaning of the word militia as it translates in the 2nd amendment. Please explain. How am I misinterpreting the clauses and the meaning of the word "militia"? I find the way you are hammering on about 'US" gun control issues rather extreme. Notwithstanding the fact that I disagree with you on that point, you are welcome to hold any opinion of my views that you wish. You have a right to your opinion and I would never deny you that right; in fact, I'd fight for it. I thought it was a bit dated. Sorry to hear that. Obviously you are not a student of history. Not true at all...I love history...it's a family thingy...My daughter even teaches World History....I did explain the interpretation of the 2nd A to you in another thread as well as the purpose for a militia according to same ...Go there and re-read it...Also, I think I know where to pull a couple of links about the original writing of the Bill of Rights that you may find interesting.... By dated I mean the times they are a changin ( like the song )....need to discuss the gun control issues as they pertain to current societal conditions.... |
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where were you guys? mudslinging is not entirely productive. It's easy to start drama over something like this. But if one type is taken away, where will it end? What if next someone goes on a rampage on another school using a handgun? Or a spork? should they be banned then? Why not simply have armed cops nearby schools, they would be safer right? Than agian the cop could be the mass-murder. Why not stop and check everyone before they enter the school? With metal dectors and everything. While we are at it, why not have have schools with something worth educational value above the 3rd grade? Why not have highly tained people be hired at every school watching out for choking hazards? Also suspened bullies from school an extra day? because obviously those malcontents won't see that as a reward at all. Better yet let's go to the measures shown in example of these fine shows:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s06e11-child-abduction-is-not-funny http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s16e01-reverse-cowgirl Apply common sense and less bullshite in america, that's how to make a diffrence. Start by having a hooker give obama a blowjob, so we can impeach his ***. |
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where were you guys? mudslinging is not entirely productive. It's easy to start drama over something like this. But if one type is taken away, where will it end? What if next someone goes on a rampage on another school using a handgun? Or a spork? should they be banned then? Why not simply have armed cops nearby schools, they would be safer right? Than agian the cop could be the mass-murder. Why not stop and check everyone before they enter the school? With metal dectors and everything. While we are at it, why not have have schools with something worth educational value above the 3rd grade? Why not have highly tained people be hired at every school watching out for choking hazards? Also suspened bullies from school an extra day? because obviously those malcontents won't see that as a reward at all. Better yet let's go to the measures shown in example of these fine shows: http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s06e11-child-abduction-is-not-funny http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s16e01-reverse-cowgirl Apply common sense and less bullshite in america, that's how to make a diffrence. Start by having a hooker give obama a blowjob, so we can impeach his ***. Fixed your links for easier access.... It's obvious you have no idea where I stand on the issue....I have been saying much of the same thing you just said...only I said it nicer....Can I have a rose? |
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Not true at all...I love history...it's a family thingy...My daughter even teaches World History....I did explain the interpretation of the 2nd A to you in another thread as well as the purpose for a militia according to same ...Go there and re-read it...Also, I think I know where to pull a couple of links about the original writing of the Bill of Rights that you may find interesting.... By dated I mean the times they are a changin ( like the song )....need to discuss the gun control issues as they pertain to current societal conditions.... Perhaps you should ask your daughter about the historical trend of a prosperous people to slide into decadence and apathy to become subjects of tyranny and oppression until necessity drives them to revolt and regicide to start the cycle anew. At what point in the cycle are people happiest and which point is our society at now? Ask her if the cycle has gotten shorter over the millennia of human history. If you explained the 2nd Amendment on another thread I must have missed it or I would have argued with you about it there. Can you at least tell me which thread it was? If I disagree with your interpretation (which I probably will) I will be more than happy to carry the argument back to this thread (in which such an argument would belong). Please do provide the links about the Bill of Rights if you please. In my view gun control issues should be discussed in light of not only current societal social norms & conditions, but also with respect for everyone's rights & duties in a free society that wishes to remain free (or regain its freedom). The second amendment is crucial to that part of the discussion, yet I see the supreme law of your land wrapping fish as though it were yesterday's newspaper and totally irrelevant to today's news. Well I have news for all of you; it is more important and relevant now than it was when it was first written. I simply consider it my duty to point that out to all of you. The American people have sat quietly by for over a century while their freedoms were taken away bit-by-bit until now they are almost gone, quietly stolen over the years by a shadow government that has now reached the point of near total control such that a Stalinist style tyranny now awaits the entire nation. This is a crucial point in the history of not only your land, but of the entire globe, which finds itself attacked and oppressed by the very country it once looked up to for freedom from tyranny (except by the American Indian, who was the first to feel its oppression and warlike, conquering nature). With so few worlds left to conquer, and bankrupt from its excesses, it now wishes to enslave its own people to pay for those excesses and those very people don't seem to know what's going on. The American people needs to get its bearings (and fast!) because the whole world will soon be at war with your country (which is the bad guy in this) and if the US wins, it will be a Pyrrhic victory at best and complete annihilation at worst. There is far more at stake than the mere right to own guns. It is the right to life in a free society for everyone everywhere and the (inevitable & hopefully peaceful) revolution that might bring it about starts here and now, so it is very important that the American people don't drop the ball this time, or the revolution will be violent and everyone will lose everything…everywhere. The survivors (if any) will enter a new Dark Age that could last for centuries. If the American people can bring itself to rise to the occasion, join hands with the people it once slaughtered (the Indian) and depose their tyrant (hopefully peacefully) it will send a message to the entire world that the Age of Tyranny is now truly over, and instead of a Dark Age, the entire world can look to the dawn of a new era of peace and prosperity under the rule of real law, such as we have never known in all of human history. Maybe the World (the old ways) DID end the other day, and maybe this is our chance at a New Beginning for everyone. In my view, every day is a chance to begin anew and there is no time like the present to take that chance. Sorry if that sounds "extreme." (I do tend to be a bit emphatic at times  )
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Edited by
JustDukkyMkII
on
Sun 12/23/12 03:43 AM
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You, the people, don't have to worry about anything anymore because your Beloved Fuhrer is now going to simplify everysing for you. You vill no longer haff to vorry your little heads about vezzer or nott congress vill be passing ze laws governing you. Ze Beloved Fuhrer iss taking over zat job, zo you only haff to listen to hiss ordersz from now on. (By ze vay, to zimplify ze electoral process, ziss moof vill necessarily entail ze temporary cancelling uff electionss undt ze burning uff zum old paperss in Vashington zat are shust taking upp valuable shpace. Schtuff like ze Conztitution undt ze Bill uff Rights vill now officially be "toast" (vell, burned anyvay) undt congress & ze szenate vill be laid off until furzzer notice.)
Ziss iss only a part uff ze Beloved Fuhrer'ss new program uff ztreamlining ze process uff governance uff hiss Great Nation (vitch iff all goess vell, shouldt zoon exzpand into a Great Global Empire (vee are almozt zare already) asz a perszonal favour to hiss loyal banker freindsz undt investorsz, who aszked him to cut back on expendituresz to improve ze cost/benefit ratio of national governance by making it more efficient), undt more executuve ordersz in ze near future vill allow him to create a much greater undt more proszperous life for zose who do as zey are told vissout qvestion. Vile vee don't vant to ruin ze zurprize, vee vouldt like to giff you a peek at vot Ze Fuhrer iss sinking aboutt right now to make your life better undt szafer (He iss only sinking about you undt your szafety undt vants to protect you vrum zose awful criminalz, mass murderersz undt terrorists, who vood desztroy hiss Great Nation iff zey had ze chanze.): http://theintelhub.com/2012/12/22/dojs-eric-holder-confirms-obama-looking-at-taking-executive-action-to-pass-gun-control/ Zee American people need no longer argue undt bicker about ze zecond amendment undt vot it meansz…In ze interest uff zimplicity, zare vill no longer be vun; issn't zat nice? |
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Edited by
Conrad_73
on
Sun 12/23/12 04:06 AM
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Civilans should keep guns, one jackass should not ruin it for the rest of us, besides too much for manuplation for people whjo would otherwise like to ban guns. It's amazing to see that the people most paassionate about taking away guns are criminals. WHere is humanity's common sense? first of all, that is the worse argument i've heard, simply because it is not even close to the truth. i don't think this is a 2nd amendment question at all. the question to me is, should the average citizen be able to purchase and possess military grade weapons and ammo? clearly ak's and bushmaster's are not used for hunting, (which seems to be the common cry whenever any kind of gun control is talked about.) so why do we need them circulating throughout our society? if you are truly to defend yourself and/or your home, a handgun, i should think, would suffice....and if this is really about having your rights taken away, where were you people when we had the patriot act shoved up our a$$es? The 2nd Amendment guaranties a RIGHT,NOT a Privilege! Rights are inherent in the Individual,NOT granted by Government! Government's Job is only to safeguard those Rights! They have no Rights to bestow,because they simply do not own them! Government is just the Custodian! In short,Government is not the Originator of your Rights! |
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Civilans should keep guns, one jackass should not ruin it for the rest of us, besides too much for manuplation for people whjo would otherwise like to ban guns. It's amazing to see that the people most paassionate about taking away guns are criminals. WHere is humanity's common sense? first of all, that is the worse argument i've heard, simply because it is not even close to the truth. i don't think this is a 2nd amendment question at all. the question to me is, should the average citizen be able to purchase and possess military grade weapons and ammo? clearly ak's and bushmaster's are not used for hunting, (which seems to be the common cry whenever any kind of gun control is talked about.) so why do we need them circulating throughout our society? if you are truly to defend yourself and/or your home, a handgun, i should think, would suffice....and if this is really about having your rights taken away, where were you people when we had the patriot act shoved up our a$$es? The 2nd Amendment guaranties a RIGHT,NOT a Privilege! Rights are inherent in the Individual,NOT granted by Government! Government's Job is only to safeguard those Rights! They have no Rights to bestow,because they simply do not own them! Government is just the Custodian! Finally... a voice of sanity! I've been trying to get through to these people but haven't been having much luck. Do you think they might be right about this "sheeple" crap?...It sure looks to me like most are so used to being fleeced that they've come to identify with the shearer. |
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Perhaps you should ask your daughter about the historical trend of a prosperous people to slide into decadence and apathy to become subjects of tyranny and oppression until necessity drives them to revolt and regicide to start the cycle anew. At what point in the cycle are people happiest and which point is our society at now? Ask her if the cycle has gotten shorter over the millennia of human history. If you explained the 2nd Amendment on another thread I must have missed it or I would have argued with you about it there. Can you at least tell me which thread it was? If I disagree with your interpretation (which I probably will) I will be more than happy to carry the argument back to this thread (in which such an argument would belong). Please do provide the links about the Bill of Rights if you please. In my view gun control issues should be discussed in light of not only current societal social norms & conditions, but also with respect for everyone's rights & duties in a free society that wishes to remain free (or regain its freedom). The second amendment is crucial to that part of the discussion, yet I see the supreme law of your land wrapping fish as though it were yesterday's newspaper and totally irrelevant to today's news. Well I have news for all of you; it is more important and relevant now than it was when it was first written. I simply consider it my duty to point that out to all of you. The American people have sat quietly by for over a century while their freedoms were taken away bit-by-bit until now they are almost gone, quietly stolen over the years by a shadow government that has now reached the point of near total control such that a Stalinist style tyranny now awaits the entire nation. This is a crucial point in the history of not only your land, but of the entire globe, which finds itself attacked and oppressed by the very country it once looked up to for freedom from tyranny (except by the American Indian, who was the first to feel its oppression and warlike, conquering nature). With so few worlds left to conquer, and bankrupt from its excesses, it now wishes to enslave its own people to pay for those excesses and those very people don't seem to know what's going on. The American people needs to get its bearings (and fast!) because the whole world will soon be at war with your country (which is the bad guy in this) and if the US wins, it will be a Pyrrhic victory at best and complete annihilation at worst. There is far more at stake than the mere right to own guns. It is the right to life in a free society for everyone everywhere and the (inevitable & hopefully peaceful) revolution that might bring it about starts here and now, so it is very important that the American people don't drop the ball this time, or the revolution will be violent and everyone will lose everything…everywhere. The survivors (if any) will enter a new Dark Age that could last for centuries. If the American people can bring itself to rise to the occasion, join hands with the people it once slaughtered (the Indian) and depose their tyrant (hopefully peacefully) it will send a message to the entire world that the Age of Tyranny is now truly over, and instead of a Dark Age, the entire world can look to the dawn of a new era of peace and prosperity under the rule of real law, such as we have never known in all of human history. Maybe the World (the old ways) DID end the other day, and maybe this is our chance at a New Beginning for everyone. In my view, every day is a chance to begin anew and there is no time like the present to take that chance. Sorry if that sounds "extreme." (I do tend to be a bit emphatic at times ) You, the people, don't have to worry about anything anymore because your Beloved Fuhrer is now going to simplify everysing for you. You vill no longer haff to vorry your little heads about vezzer or nott congress vill be passing ze laws governing you. Ze Beloved Fuhrer iss taking over zat job, zo you only haff to listen to hiss ordersz from now on. (By ze vay, to zimplify ze electoral process, ziss moof vill necessarily entail ze temporary cancelling uff electionss undt ze burning uff zum old paperss in Vashington zat are shust taking upp valuable shpace. Schtuff like ze Conztitution undt ze Bill uff Rights vill now officially be "toast" (vell, burned anyvay) undt congress & ze szenate vill be laid off until furzzer notice.) Ziss iss only a part uff ze Beloved Fuhrer'ss new program uff ztreamlining ze process uff governance uff hiss Great Nation (vitch iff all goess vell, shouldt zoon exzpand into a Great Global Empire (vee are almozt zare already) asz a perszonal favour to hiss loyal banker freindsz undt investorsz, who aszked him to cut back on expendituresz to improve ze cost/benefit ratio of national governance by making it more efficient), undt more executuve ordersz in ze near future vill allow him to create a much greater undt more proszperous life for zose who do as zey are told vissout qvestion. Vile vee don't vant to ruin ze zurprize, vee vouldt like to giff you a peek at vot Ze Fuhrer iss sinking aboutt right now to make your life better undt szafer (He iss only sinking about you undt your szafety undt vants to protect you vrum zose awful criminalz, mass murderersz undt terrorists, who vood desztroy hiss Great Nation iff zey had ze chanze.): http://theintelhub.com/2012/12/22/dojs-eric-holder-confirms-obama-looking-at-taking-executive-action-to-pass-gun-control/ Zee American people need no longer argue undt bicker about ze zecond amendment undt vot it meansz…In ze interest uff zimplicity, zare vill no longer be vun; issn't zat nice? This is classic coming from someone who lives in a country DROWNING IN BIG GOVERNMENT!...Best be careful with your America bashing, like everybody else, you may need her someday... I'm off to find some less extreme, more intellectual conversation.... God Bless America..... 
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Civilans should keep guns, one jackass should not ruin it for the rest of us, besides too much for manuplation for people whjo would otherwise like to ban guns. It's amazing to see that the people most paassionate about taking away guns are criminals. WHere is humanity's common sense? first of all, that is the worse argument i've heard, simply because it is not even close to the truth. i don't think this is a 2nd amendment question at all. the question to me is, should the average citizen be able to purchase and possess military grade weapons and ammo? clearly ak's and bushmaster's are not used for hunting, (which seems to be the common cry whenever any kind of gun control is talked about.) so why do we need them circulating throughout our society? if you are truly to defend yourself and/or your home, a handgun, i should think, would suffice....and if this is really about having your rights taken away, where were you people when we had the patriot act shoved up our a$$es? The 2nd Amendment guaranties a RIGHT,NOT a Privilege! Rights are inherent in the Individual,NOT granted by Government! Government's Job is only to safeguard those Rights! They have no Rights to bestow,because they simply do not own them! Government is just the Custodian! Finally... a voice of sanity! I've been trying to get through to these people but haven't been having much luck. Do you think they might be right about this "sheeple" crap?...It sure looks to me like most are so used to being fleeced that they've come to identify with the shearer.
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Civilans should keep guns, one jackass should not ruin it for the rest of us, besides too much for manuplation for people whjo would otherwise like to ban guns. It's amazing to see that the people most paassionate about taking away guns are criminals. WHere is humanity's common sense? first of all, that is the worse argument i've heard, simply because it is not even close to the truth. i don't think this is a 2nd amendment question at all. the question to me is, should the average citizen be able to purchase and possess military grade weapons and ammo? clearly ak's and bushmaster's are not used for hunting, (which seems to be the common cry whenever any kind of gun control is talked about.) so why do we need them circulating throughout our society? if you are truly to defend yourself and/or your home, a handgun, i should think, would suffice....and if this is really about having your rights taken away, where were you people when we had the patriot act shoved up our a$$es? The 2nd Amendment guaranties a RIGHT,NOT a Privilege! Rights are inherent in the Individual,NOT granted by Government! Government's Job is only to safeguard those Rights! They have no Rights to bestow,because they simply do not own them! Government is just the Custodian! Finally... a voice of sanity! I've been trying to get through to these people but haven't been having much luck. Do you think they might be right about this "sheeple" crap?...It sure looks to me like most are so used to being fleeced that they've come to identify with the shearer. 
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Why do you think it was important, to the founders of our country, to put the second admendment into our constitution?
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Edited by
JustDukkyMkII
on
Sun 12/23/12 05:58 AM
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Why do you think it was important, to the founders of our country, to put the second admendment into our constitution? To keep the country from falling into tyranny by ensuring the people would always have the means to oppose it. |
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This is classic coming from someone who lives in a country DROWNING IN BIG GOVERNMENT!...Best be careful with your America bashing, like everybody else, you may need her someday... I'm off to find some less extreme, more intellectual conversation.... God Bless America..... Seeing as how America its people and not its current government, ditto! I don't live in a country drowning in big government; you do. I live on Turtle Island, Earth, and govern myself quite nicely thank you. Won't you join me? BTW...I'm not bashing America, I'm bashing the tyrannical governments on it (there is a difference you know) |
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Edited by
Leigh2154
on
Sun 12/23/12 07:27 AM
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This is classic coming from someone who lives in a country DROWNING IN BIG GOVERNMENT!...Best be careful with your America bashing, like everybody else, you may need her someday... I'm off to find some less extreme, more intellectual conversation.... God Bless America..... Seeing as how America its people and not its current government, ditto! I don't live in a country drowning in big government; you do. I live on Turtle Island, Earth, and govern myself quite nicely thank you. Won't you join me? BTW...I'm not bashing America, I'm bashing the tyrannical governments on it (there is a difference you know) Not earth, you live in your own "little" world where condescending to people who do not agree with your extreme theorist views on "moral" philosophy and "natural" law is the norm...When you are ready to stop patronizing "American people", give me a call and we'll do lunch.....You can supply the tums... God Bless America...
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Civilans should keep guns, one jackass should not ruin it for the rest of us, besides too much for manuplation for people whjo would otherwise like to ban guns. It's amazing to see that the people most paassionate about taking away guns are criminals. WHere is humanity's common sense? first of all, that is the worse argument i've heard, simply because it is not even close to the truth. i don't think this is a 2nd amendment question at all. the question to me is, should the average citizen be able to purchase and possess military grade weapons and ammo? clearly ak's and bushmaster's are not used for hunting, (which seems to be the common cry whenever any kind of gun control is talked about.) so why do we need them circulating throughout our society? if you are truly to defend yourself and/or your home, a handgun, i should think, would suffice....and if this is really about having your rights taken away, where were you people when we had the patriot act shoved up our a$$es? The 2nd Amendment guaranties a RIGHT,NOT a Privilege! Rights are inherent in the Individual,NOT granted by Government! Government's Job is only to safeguard those Rights! They have no Rights to bestow,because they simply do not own them! Government is just the Custodian! Finally... a voice of sanity! I've been trying to get through to these people but haven't been having much luck. Do you think they might be right about this "sheeple" crap?...It sure looks to me like most are so used to being fleeced that they've come to identify with the shearer. no doubt!
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you live in your own "little" world where condescending to people who do not agree with your extreme theorist views on "moral" philosophy and "natural" law is the norm.. The world I live in is beautiful, with expansive vistas and a big glowing orb called the sun above my head. Please take a few steps out of Plato's cave and have a look. I'm quite certain you won't regret it. When you are ready to stop patronizing "American people", give me a call and we'll do lunch Sorry I can't do lunch. I'm a patron of human rights for the American people, and will never stop supporting them. God Bless America!...
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Why do you think it was important, to the founders of our country, to put the second admendment into our constitution? to protect themselves from forien tyranny...england, mexico, france, and indians...we really don't need that protection now, do we? |
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you live in your own "little" world where condescending to people who do not agree with your extreme theorist views on "moral" philosophy and "natural" law is the norm.. The world I live in is beautiful, with expansive vistas and a big glowing orb called the sun above my head. Please take a few steps out of Plato's cave and have a look. I'm quite certain you won't regret it. When you are ready to stop patronizing "American people", give me a call and we'll do lunch Sorry I can't do lunch. I'm a patron of human rights for the American people, and will never stop supporting them. God Bless America!... Thank you for your concern, but America can take care of herself...One thing all you gun thumpers seem to forget is that when the chips are down in THIS COUNTRY, the people put every single one of their differences aside and COME TOGETHER for the COMMON good of a nation...Once we are finished protecting her, we get on with the business of living peacefully in our diversity.. |
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