unless that particular union has something to offer besides empty hands waiting to be filled a union is a union is a union unless it is a union that does something for the business they are supposed to be protecting workers from. Their business model is "what do you have for me or else we shut you down." it should be "we make sure our workers are up to standard before we hand them off to you. Just treat them fairly!"

What would a "self employed custom fish tank builder" know about a Union?

Goofed,and it's a win for the Teamsters,as usual!

O.K. SMART AZZ! I was a member of UAW 148 when I was working for McDonnell Douglas. It was one of the most worthless unions I know of short of the Teamters union. When I got caught in the third wave of layoffs their "Jobs" board was empty. When I asked them for help their answer was "get in line." They were not even there for me when I needed to collect unemployment. All they were there for was my two hours of pay each week. When I needed them they were not there for me.

So what would a "Union Man" know about RUNNING a business short of collecting a pay check at the end of every weekend?

And these days I am into Shipping! I am working on an Exportation/ Importation business and that unto itself is a lot of work. I got sick of jobs where the customer was my worst enemy. If people want me to design tanks these days they had better put $50,000 in my hand or go to the other hacks who THINK they know what they are doing! If I can't get serious pay, I am not being taken seriously in the first place! I am going to the supply end of the pet industry! I am going where the money is at! It isn't in trying to serve customers like yourself! People like you KNOW EVERYTHING. I come across so many "Instant Experts" that spend two hours on the internet and suddenly they know what took me YEARS to learn and master. And for their expertise they can't keep a goldfish alive yet I BREED FISH! Hell, they breed for me without me doing much of everything but then again I manage to get the babies to adults!

And should my business grow to the point where I have "employees" in the plural above ten... Every and I mean EVERY employee will sign the same forms and labor contract with me demanding NO collective bargaining and if they do it I will lay them all off and replace them. If a 15% profit share is not good enough for them as well as a comprehensive medical and dental plan they must contribute to they can go KISS OFF! There are ways of preventing a union from stealing your business. It is just too many people are afraid of political fallout and having to face lawyers. Well, contract law works both ways. Don't want my work, DON'T SIGN MY CONTRACT! Don't like my terms? DON'T TAKE THE JOB!!! There are PLENTY of other people who are hungry enough to earn their pay!

I have plans to keep 'union moles' out of my operations.


So in closing, I WAS A UNION MEMBER AND I WAS TREATED LIKE MEAT, NOT A PERSON! FUQQ THE UAW! And most of all I hope that the greed based "Mafia" Unions go down and I hope the bus they are riding in takes them all over the cliff they are driving us towards!

I WAS SMART ENOUGH TO GET OFF THE BUS AND FEND FOR MYSELF THANK YOU!

So how do you like me now?

Unions are labor cartels that extort businesses and are designed to keep non-union workers out--people who would happily do a better job for less. Yes a few union workers, and especially their crooked bosses, make out like bandits, but this costs the economy, strangles the company, and leads to much higher unemployment. Extortion and thuggery will get some into the middle class, but it is designed to keep most out. (It is also how a lot of Dems. get elected.)

Asking a union boss for advice on employment is like asking a fox how to raise chickens.

Well as a 20 year union MEMBER I have to say I have no complaints I work hard every day make a descent living have 4 weeks paid vacation and at 48 I have ten years to go until I can draw a pension.

I plan to double dip take a job as a foreman at 58 and coast to retirement with the confidence of social security pension and medical.

God bless Umerika.

Well, the arguing about the unions has been rendered moot by a federal judge's decision to allow Hostess to sell its assets. Any party that might buy those assets won't be burdened any previous union contract.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/19/why-not-pay-back-taxpayers-first/

http://laborpains.org/2012/11/20/the-white-knight-comes-for-the-snacks-not-for-the-union/

The White Knight Comes for the Snacks, Not for the Union

Twinkie the Kid was known for saving Twinkies from evil-doers in his classic commercials. Unfortunately, the Kid was no match for destructive union leadership. Will someone else come to the rescue?

Fans of Hostess snacks are hoping that other bakers will run to the brand in the same way they had a run on the products this weekend. And there’s plenty of speculation as to the fate of Hostess and its most iconic assets. Chief among those rumors is that Grupo Bimbo, a Mexican food company, will buy the product line.

So does that mean the striking members of the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union (BCTGM) will be back at work soon? Not exactly.

Especially if a Mexican buyer is involved, production may go the way of the Brach’s and Fannie May candy concerns: south of the border. With US sugar tariffs set artificially high to protect Florida sugar-growing concerns, a non-unionized shop with access to lower-priced sugar in Mexico could be the Twinkie lifeline, economists suggest.

On the other hand, if Hostess’ problem is its legacy delivery system, which is what University of Maryland economist Peter Morici suspects, Bimbo may be able to squeeze profits out of the supply chain while still making Twinkies in the US, albeit probably not in union shops.

So much for the white knight that unions still think will ride in to save them. Despite the union’s contention that management should take 100% of the blame for the liquidation, prospective buyers are finding that the union workforce needs to be subtracted out of the equation in order to have a comeback of Ho-Ho’s. It’s the same thing that Hostess told the Teamsters, and why they agreed to work with management.

A new rumor today is that the only chance for the company to survive as one unit would be from the help of a private equity firm. You know, the “Bain-style” people that AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka blames for the bankruptcy.

After engaging in what Bloomberg News called “brinkmanship,” members of the BCTGM really should not be happy with their union leaders. As J. Justin Wilson, Managing Director of the Center for Union Facts, explained on CNBC on Friday, there is little chance that many of these jobs will ever return. He said that “we should feel bad” for the union members who were duped into thinking that their jobs would be saved at the last minute:

Unions are out of touch with workers when it comes to issues like this. This is the worst case scenario—everyone is out of a job, including the CEO of this company. The union is the one that walked over the cliff.

BCTGM seemed to be more concerned with its negotiating power than it was about keeping its members at work just before the holidays.

Even while the union and Hostess were thrown a life raft by the bankruptcy judge on Monday, we learned more about the union’s efforts—or rather, the lack thereof:

“The bakers union did not object to the relief that was sought. I want to repeat that,” [the judge] said, calling its decision to remain silent when Hostess was on the verge of imposing labor cost cuts “somewhat unusual, to say the least, and perhaps illogical.”

So what is the point of the union—to protect its power and its talking points or to protect its workers against losing their jobs? Or as the editorial board of Investor’s Business Daily asks, “When are unions going to start caring about real jobs and real workers?”


http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/guests/s_778775.html

This whole argument up till now has been all about what is good for YOU! Not what is in the best interest of the Global good of America.

Yeah, God Bless people like ME who America was made on the BACK OF! Oh wait a minute, what the hell is 'Umerica?' Some new God?



Seriously, look at what you just said and tell me that was not the most selfish thing anyone has said here yet?

This is not an attack. It is a personal observation! Can't stand the heat? You know what you need to do!

It depends, the contract I work under has the union tied to the company being if it changes hands the union contract goes with it.

HU?

If I did what was good for american capitalism I would work for free?

A well paid worker stimulates the economy, we buy things we have children who get music lessons, who play sports and need sporting equipment.

We buy cars, we go on vacations, we buy camping equipment and we pay taxes and that is more than I can say for so many off the book fly by night handy men.

My neighbor who I think is great and has a wonderful family is getting hit with Obama care because he had no insurance and his children had some government insurance so he avoided the cost and passed it on to me a tax payer, well as much as I like him he now has to pay something for his kids insurance.

Anyhow happy Thanksgiving everyone

and remember AMERICA WORKS BEST WHEN WE SAY UNION YES

That is if there is no bankruptcy. When a company files for bankruptcy, a union contract can become nullified. Watch what happens if the "Twinkie" brand or some other Hostess brand is purchased by another company.

Dude, that claim is highly disputable.

I can't remember the name of it, but a manufacturing company in Oakland, CA went out of business roughly 10 years ago because the contract that it had with a local union would not permit the business to do what was necessary in order to stay competitive. The company liquidated it assets, during which time, managers at my company went to see if they wanted to buy any of the assets.

The presence of a labor union doesn't have to make things bad for a company. The most profitable U.S. airline that I know of is Southwest Airline, and it is unionized. In the case of Hostess, the Teamsters Union had agreed to the concessions that Hostess management had asked for. Now, those Teamsters members are out of work because members of another union chose to go on strike.

Just as fallaciously comical as ever! Illegal Immigrants buy cars like I do and everyone else. having a better paying job means nothing.

You vacation? LUCKY YOU! How about all those working poor who can't and ARE UNION? I know me a few out of work Long Shoremen right now. And all those good old Construction Unions? They got a LOT more men than work!

Just keep patting yourself on the back and reminding yourself everything is fine in YOUR little world.

The watchdog needs to be muzzled for all our safety! It has gone crazy biting everyone!

Yep, you just can keep right on believing that a burden is a good thing. Just keep promoting the parasitism Karl Marx spoke out against in his Egalitarian Ideal. Yep, just keep on passing the buck and no responsibility or personal accountability (unless you are white or Asian!).

I am SOOOOOOOOOOOO impressed with your scintillating commentary!




































not.

Well this wont be the first place that closed because of a union and wont be the last.

Look what they did to their own Brothers!
Now imagine what they will do to their Enemies!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304177104577307184099140656.html

UAW Freezes Rival Out of Rebound

LaborPains.org
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UAW Cuts Rival Union Out of Auto Recovery

Though the size and influence of the United Auto Workers (UAW) has waned over the past couple of decades, the union cashed a substantial amount of political capital to help secure the 2007 bailout of the auto industry. As The Wall Street Journal reports, the union has made sure to protect its members–even at the expense of employees in other unions.

General Motors’ (GM) Moraine (OH) plant was one of the most productive and cooperative factories, yet it was closed following the automaker’s 2007 labor pact with the UAW. Two years later in the midst of a recovery, Moraine’s 2,500 laid-off workers are barred from transferring to other plants under a deal brokered by the UAW during GM’s bankruptcy–locking them out of the industry’s rebound.

The problem: Moraine’s workers weren’t in the UAW.

Originally an appliance factory, the plant moved to automobile manufacturing under GM. The workers there elected to stick with the International Union of Electrical Workers (IUE), rather than join the UAW. However, they generally accepted contracts negotiated by the UAW.

When GM began having financial difficulty in 2007, IUE leaders decided to break ranks with the UAW and offer concessions to keep GM and Moraine afloat. However, as the company’s financial situation worsened, and GM and the UAW began negotiating, IUE had no seat at the table. Unfortunately, by the time GM had satisfied the UAW, there was nothing left for IUE workers in Moraine.

In the end, “we had to take care of our own members,” says Cal Rapson, the former UAW vice president leading negotiations with GM. “It was unfortunate what happened to the others. But there wasn’t enough to go around.”



http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/06/auto-bailout-or-uaw-bailout-taxpayer-losses-came-from-subsidizing-union-compensation

Auto Bailout or UAW Bailout? Taxpayer Losses Came from Subsidizing Union Compensation

Key Points

1. 1 Bankruptcy law calls for similarly situated creditors to receive equal treatment. In the government bailout of General Motors and Chrysler, the United Auto Workers (UAW) union received much more favorable treatment than other creditors and other unions.
2. 2 Unlike other unsecured creditors, the UAW recovered most of the money owed to its benefit funds. GM’s UAW members—among the most highly paid workers in America—did not take pay cuts as they normally would in bankruptcy.
3. 3 Taxpayers would not have lost money on the auto bailout had the UAW not received this special treatment. The bailout would have cost $26.5 billion less if the Administration had not subsidized UAW compensation.
4. 4 The UAW subsidies cost more than the entire foreign aid budget in 2011. The Administration did not need to lose money to keep GM and Chrysler operating.
5. 5 The auto bailout was actually a UAW bailout

The facts are the union has taken pay cuts over several contracts and the CEO's gave themselves raises.

How can any rational person claim the union was the trouble with hostess?

Brian Driscoll, CEO, around $750,000 to $2,550,000.
Gary Wandschneider, EVP, $500,000 to $900,000.
John Stewart, EVP, $400,000 to $700,000.
David Loeser, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256.
Kent Magill, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256.
Richard Seban, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256.
John Akeson, SVP, $300,000 to $480,000.
Steven Birgfeld, SVP, $240,000 to $360,000.
Martha Ross, SVP, $240,000 to $360,000.
Rob Kissick, SVP, $182,000 to $273,008.

And yet another baseless assumption on your part! If I knew a union was squeezing the life out of a business I owned i would likewise squeeze every dollar out of it and fold the business so the contracts and penalties don't steal everything I owned!

WELCOME TO BUSINESS IN THE REAL WORLD! WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD!

Sorry it conflicts with YOUR beliefs.

Unions have done NOTHING to improve the maintenance of a labor force to make sure manufacturers are willing to stay! Not one union has ever offered cost saving measures on the labor end. If anything they INFLAME the cost of labor. What, strike pay and a pseudo unemployment plan counts as something?

Now again not all unions are evil. Some really are good and provide quality labor BUT they are a serious minority. If anything Unions are a hotbed of Greed, Guildism, Nepotism, and an awe inspiring sense of Narcissism! Examples of this are the Screen Writer's Guild, The Screen Actor's Guild, and the Stage Worker's Union. The entry fees are astronomical and the dues are outrageous. On top of that they have been a stagnating pol of talent so bad that lately the trash Hollywood has been dumping on us is making it easy for the competition (Bollywood, India, Australia, and N Korea) to show what a dismal let down the talent pool of Hollywood has become. And then comes the Unions that BREED criminal activity like The TEACHER'S Union, the Longshoremen, and the Teamster's Unions. I don't remember EXACTLY when it happened but there was a huge scandal back at Long beach Harbor when stolen cars (ALL High end and ALL over
$250K in Price) were leaving port with fraudulent paperwork and it turned out the containers were loaded by Teamsters and loaded by Longshoremen "Off hours" and it was all part of a theft ring that was busted just days before these cars were to be shipped out. And recently even the Union Director for LA UNIFIED was busted for... Drum Roll... SEX WITH MINORS AND SEXUAL MISCONDUCT AND A VARIETY OF OTHER CHARGES. NO WONDER THE TEACHER'S UNION HAS BEEN PROTECTING PEDOPHILES!

Again your arguments are self serving. All you do is yell about money. All you do is complain about "How greedy they are." Well, look in the mirror. I see another greedy person from where I am standing and I am sure a lot of others here see the same thing. An egocentric liberal who refuses to acknowledge that the problem we face is more than Unions and Politics and Greed.

Instead of fixing the machine we got you want to add more parts to it instead of replacing the parts that are broken in the first place. I know of NO SYSTEM OR MACHINE THAT IS REPAIRED LIKE THE WAY YOU APPROACH THIS ARGUMENT.

Like others had mentioned, one union backed off of Hostess to prevent the company from folding but evidently the other union DIDN'T!

This is how unions come off...



But the reality of it is that unions feed off of the above because this is what they really are!



The color of the trough fits well. It represents OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY!


So, shall we reevaluate your argument here? AGAIN?


Is it possible you can present us with a logical and and more compelling argument other than to spout greed and money? Is it possible for you to see things in a more "global" sense or is that too hard for you since Union life treated you OH SO well? Unions did nothing for me and DO nothing for me. And likewise they do nothing for the business they operate within other than COST THEM MONEY! And there in lies another issue I have with Unions. THEY ALSO MAKE DEMANDS BEHIND THE SCENES AND THEY NEED PALM GREASE TO KEEP THINGS FROM BECOMING A PROBLEM FOR MOST BUSINESSES. You know, the whole "insurance" thing?


M
A
F
I
A

Period...

Union-Greed!