green, ty for the welcome

sometimes we have to step away and take a breath from the 'negativity',,,

love is important as is structure, and this is just not the structure I Want to see government encouraging,,


but my little voice is becoming outnumbered on the issue,

noone wins them all


so I remain thankful for other victories, like reelecting Obama,,,

Good to have you back!...I feel concerned about kids who grow-up with parents who are just living together with no firm commitment..Anyone can leave at anytime...But we can't force couples to get married! And it's legal to live together and have kids without being married in our country...And married couples are free to get divorced at any time so marriage doesn't always come with guarantees either...Some 2-parent ("straight") families have problems that end-up affecting their kids...It's hard for me to judge gay people or gay couples when heterosexual couples have so many issues and problems...And so much "growing" left to do!

yes, this is true of adults from all demographics

I just see the healthy benefit to encouraging men and women to commit to each other in a world where their physical bonding creates new life

I also see the healthy benefit to encouraging both potential biological 'parents' to raise their children together

I know there are already single parents and stepfamilies, and they shouldnt be irrelevant in their role

but I still think we should promote the ideal, all things being equal, which is for me a foundation where the two people who create a life raise that life together in a commitment to each other,,,

The more marriages, the more divorces and the more money going to the STATE.

MARRIAGE IS A CONTRACT WITH THE STATE. I don't think the STATE has any business in our personal contracts IE: marriage.

By the way, MsHarmony, I welcome you back too and I missed you too. We don't have to agree on everything. I think one thing we do agree on is respecting other people regardless of their opinions. I'd like to see more of that going around.

So, you don't want gay people to get married, because you don't want them to be able to raise children?

And I get that gay sex bothers you, but it's going to happen whether the couple is married or not. You not wanting couples of the same sex to have sex has nothing to do with them actually having sex. They're going to do so whether you agree or not.

msharmony...I have some gay friends who have been together as a "couple" for 20-30 years. And I have some straight friends who have been married to their spouses for 20-40 years!...Some relationships "last" and some don't! (Whether people get married or not!)...I've had gay friends since I was young so it's all normal to me. We all get along great and show respect for each other.

no, the point is people will commit to and raise children with each other regardless of government sanctioned 'marriages'

people will have sex with other consenting adults as well regardless

but government sanctions set an EXAMPLE for society, and its no more of the example I want set than an example where people have children intentionally in fatherless or motherless homes

the government should promote parents raising children(or potential children) TOGETHER,, period,,, all other options should remain personal ones but not governmetn sanctioned and encouraged ones,,,

I have gay relatives whom I love dearly, I Dont define them by their sexual preference but by all the other things about them that I love,,,

I dont believe it will ever be 'normal' to me,,,and see no reason for it to be

msharmony..I guess we all have different views when it comes to the role of the government...I expect the government to safeguard the rights of each and every citizen when it comes to fairness and equality...Churches have the right to refuse to marry certain individuals based on their own criteria...But I expect the government to be more impartial and neutral when it comes to granting rights to citizens...We all come from different religious backgrounds and some people are atheists or agnostics etc...I expect the government to find a way to represent and accomodate everyone. It's not easy! (Because our country is full of diversity!)...The government didn't step-in and "moralize" and make it illegal for unmarried couples to live together...The government doesn't arrest people who get divorced or women who give birth to children out of wedlock...We all take pride in living in a "free country." A lot rests on our own shoulders when it comes to the beliefs we "adopt" and how we want to raise our children etc...The government only steps-in when it's determined that children are being abused or neglected by their parents. Or to enforce other laws...I don't look to the government to set the "ideals" concerning marriage. (Especially when these "ideals" directly infringe on the rights of some citizens.)...As parents we are free to share our beliefs and our "ideals" with our children. But some of our kids might decide to go their "own way" and form their own "ideals" and beliefs as they grow older. This is all part of living in a "free country!"

Well, Maryland and Maine voters did the right thing and stood up for marriage equality. I'm sorry you don't see it that way and are ok with telling people you don't want them to marry because you don't want the government to sanction it.

I agree, the government didnt make any such choices illegal, nor did it give its stamp of approval or endorsement on such choices

I feel homosexual relationships should be given that same 'neutral' attitude , neither criminalized nor endorsed by government,,,,

I guess it comes down to whether one views marriage as a 'right' which could be absolutely applied to everyone,, which few are,,,,

I dont feel it was right to equate homosexual relationships with heterosexual marriages,,,

there are many things people dont want endorsed by government which are not illegal either,,,

Id be sorry for people who wanted others ARRESTED for their personal choices, but wouldnt waste time feeling sorry for choices that others dont wish government to ENDORSE

msharmony...Thanks for sharing back and forth!...I'm not sure that I view marriage as a "right." (A "right" accorded to some but not to others.)...I "came of age" in the 60's...Back then a lot of us worked to "shake things up" and create changes in society in many different ways..When I was younger I viewed marriage as just a "piece of paper" for awhile even though I got married versus living with mates...When I married my "last" husband in the 80's I started viewing marriage through "new eyes!"...My husband and I were best friends and "team players" and equal partners in all respects!...And I loved being married. (For the first time!)...And my husband and I remained happy together until he passed away in 2010...But I still can't say that I view marriage as a "right" per se. I'd probably call marriage a "choice" especially in these times...I don't want or need to put stipulations or limitations on marriage in regards to opposite or same-sex couples getting married...All of the "revolutions" I went through back in the 50's and 60's and 70's permanently affected me. And I favor equal rights for everyone!

I favor equal rights too, let churches marry whomever they choose and let government stay out of it altogether,, unless children are being raised in which case I do believe it serves a greater good to 'influence' those potential parents to make legally binding commitments to their families,,,

It's probably time to agree to disagree and lay it all to rest for now! What do you think? Hope you have a nice holiday weekend!

Well, the voters in Maine and Maryland disagree with you. I think what they voted for was a huge step in the right direction. The only advice I can give you is that if you disagree with same sex marriages, simply don't have one. :)

The problem with that is not everyone who gets married will do so in a church. I don't think people should be forced to do that.