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Topic: 'Under God' upheld again
Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Wed 11/07/12 02:23 PM
Jesus taught to pray and give alms in private without making a big show of it I agree, and I do not promote daily public displays of piety. However, this thread is specifically about the use of two words in the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance. People are free to say those words, and people are free to not say those words. The problem is that the Pledge is always said in unison in public gatherings, following a leader. This makes it at least a semiformal public declaration. Sure, people can remain silent for the "under God" part. But while they are silent, the rest of the group is overwhelming them with their words, and anyone watching would have no way to realize that person X doesn't agree with the whole thing. If the Pledge were something that people said spontaneously on their own, like a prayer, or if it were commonly said in private, then I'd have no problem with it containing religious language. But as it is, I do think it violates the Constitution. I agree. It is a pledge. It is like a verbal and spoken contract or agreement. It is not something that should be inflicted on a crowd.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Wed 11/07/12 02:25 PM
Even unbelievers appreciate the prayers of godly men, women, and children. How do you know that? I can guarantee you that not all do. But the vast majority are polite enough to keep it to themselves. Amen to that! To say that even unbelievers appreciate the prayers of "godly men, women and children" is a huge assumption. For a godly man to pray for me could mean that he is praying that my business fails because he feels that tarot cards are evil. What he is actually doing is dark magic.

CeriseRose Joined Mon 08/02/10 Posts: 6220	Wed 11/07/12 03:24 PM
Jesus taught to pray and give alms in private without making a big show of it And that is what people should do. So, are you suggesting Christians get in a closet... while everything that's been in the closet should be let out? Keeping prayer in a closet is not what Jesus was implying anyhow. No, if people want to pray in a public restaurant on on the street, then that is fine with me. It should not be a problem with most people. What I am saying is in a crowd of mixed audience, public conducted prayer -from a podium etc-- to a captive audience is rude and assuming. It assumes that everyone in the audience is approving of that belief and it publicly endorses a belief that should be personal. I've not heard of any who complained about public prayers for 911 victims and their families. Of course not. To complain would also be extremely RUDE. Not to mention the abuse any complainer would surely have to endure for complaining. Hope was given. Strength was received. Prayers are good for prevention as well! Many gather for that sort of prayer. Even unbelievers appreciate the prayers of godly men, women, and children. That is not the point I am making. I am speaking ONLY OF PUBLIC PRAYER FROM A POSITION OF AUTHORITY to a crowd of unknowns. I am saying that, while not "illegal" it is RUDE and it assumes that everyone in the crowd is of that faith or should be. Prayers of blessings & Benedictions are a gift. Some acts should be left unscrutinized. Period.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Wed 11/07/12 08:58 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Wed 11/07/12 08:59 PM
Jesus taught to pray and give alms in private without making a big show of it And that is what people should do. So, are you suggesting Christians get in a closet... while everything that's been in the closet should be let out? Keeping prayer in a closet is not what Jesus was implying anyhow. No, if people want to pray in a public restaurant on on the street, then that is fine with me. It should not be a problem with most people. What I am saying is in a crowd of mixed audience, public conducted prayer -from a podium etc-- to a captive audience is rude and assuming. It assumes that everyone in the audience is approving of that belief and it publicly endorses a belief that should be personal. I've not heard of any who complained about public prayers for 911 victims and their families. Of course not. To complain would also be extremely RUDE. Not to mention the abuse any complainer would surely have to endure for complaining. Hope was given. Strength was received. Prayers are good for prevention as well! Many gather for that sort of prayer. Even unbelievers appreciate the prayers of godly men, women, and children. That is not the point I am making. I am speaking ONLY OF PUBLIC PRAYER FROM A POSITION OF AUTHORITY to a crowd of unknowns. I am saying that, while not "illegal" it is RUDE and it assumes that everyone in the crowd is of that faith or should be. Prayers of blessings & Benedictions are a gift. Some acts should be left unscrutinized. Period. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. In any case, everyone is entitled to their own feelings and opinions.

adj4u Joined Sun 04/08/07 Posts: 21254	Thu 11/08/12 02:36 AM
who's (god God)

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Thu 11/08/12 08:57 AM Edited by Jeanniebean on Thu 11/08/12 08:59 AM
who's (god God) In truth, (I BELIEVE) - We are. You, me, everyone. God is everywhere and everything. Unfortunately there is much disagreement about who God is, and some would insist that you should bow down and worship only their concept of God.

alleoops Joined Sat 08/06/11 Posts: 10832	Thu 11/08/12 11:35 AM
who's (god God) In truth, (I BELIEVE) - We are. You, me, everyone. God is everywhere and everything. Unfortunately there is much disagreement about who God is, and some would insist that you should bow down and worship only their concept of God. God is the Bilderbergers. The Bilderbergers are god. Worship them.

adj4u Joined Sun 04/08/07 Posts: 21254	Thu 11/08/12 03:47 PM
who's (god God) In truth, (I BELIEVE) - We are. You, me, everyone. God is everywhere and everything. Unfortunately there is much disagreement about who God is, and some would insist that you should bow down and worship only their concept of God. thats my point it does not say my god your god or this god or that god it can be any god you wish so it is preconceived notions causing the problem

willowdraga Joined Sat 10/13/12 Posts: 957	Thu 11/08/12 03:53 PM Edited by willowdraga on Thu 11/08/12 03:54 PM
Jesus taught to pray and give alms in private without making a big show of it And that is what people should do. So, are you suggesting Christians get in a closet... while everything that's been in the closet should be let out? Keeping prayer in a closet is not what Jesus was implying anyhow. No, if people want to pray in a public restaurant on on the street, then that is fine with me. It should not be a problem with most people. What I am saying is in a crowd of mixed audience, public conducted prayer -from a podium etc-- to a captive audience is rude and assuming. It assumes that everyone in the audience is approving of that belief and it publicly endorses a belief that should be personal. I've not heard of any who complained about public prayers for 911 victims and their families. Of course not. To complain would also be extremely RUDE. Not to mention the abuse any complainer would surely have to endure for complaining. Hope was given. Strength was received. Prayers are good for prevention as well! Many gather for that sort of prayer. Even unbelievers appreciate the prayers of godly men, women, and children. That is not the point I am making. I am speaking ONLY OF PUBLIC PRAYER FROM A POSITION OF AUTHORITY to a crowd of unknowns. I am saying that, while not "illegal" it is RUDE and it assumes that everyone in the crowd is of that faith or should be. Prayers of blessings & Benedictions are a gift. Some acts should be left unscrutinized. Period. I suffer the prayers from my family because they are my family but it is an insult to my intelligence to have someone asking an invisible non existent creature to help me out, save me, do anything for me. So I would hope that people will not insult me by praying for me. Now if they want to hope the best for me or wish the best for me, great. But leave dastardly invisible creatures who create hatred and discrimination off of my life or name. Thanks

singmesweet Joined Mon 07/28/08 Posts: 26661	Thu 11/08/12 04:44 PM
I really don't see this as a big deal as long as no one is trying to force others to say the "under god" part.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Thu 11/08/12 04:50 PM
who's (god God) In truth, (I BELIEVE) - We are. You, me, everyone. God is everywhere and everything. Unfortunately there is much disagreement about who God is, and some would insist that you should bow down and worship only their concept of God. thats my point it does not say my god your god or this god or that god it can be any god you wish so it is preconceived notions causing the problem Not for atheists. They don't like "god" being shoved at them in public pledges. I don't like pledges being shoved at me in public. A pledge is a verbal promise or contract.