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Topic: THE NORAD TAPES and the governments new story...
Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Sat 09/15/12 11:11 AM
The 9-11 Commission cannot be assumed to be above deceit. At the Commissions’ hearing on May 23, 2003, Norman Mineta testified that on the morning of 9-11, after arriving at the White House and stopping to see Richard Clarke (the national coordinator for security and counterterrorism), he went down to the Presidential Emergency Operations Center (PEOC) under the White House, where Vice President Cheney was in charge. Mineta then told Vice Chair Lee Hamilton of the 9-11 Commission: “During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, “The plane is 50 miles out.” “The plane is 30 miles out.” And when it got down to “the plane is 10 miles out,” the young man also said to the Vice President, “Do the order still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, “Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?” When Mineta was asked by Commissioner Timothy Roemer how long this conversation occurred after he arrived, Mineta said: “Probably about five or six minutes.” Which, as Roemer pointed out, would mean “about 9:25 or 9:26. This story was very threatening to the account that would be provided in the 9-11 Commission Report. According to that account, Cheney did not even enter the PEOC until almost 10:00, perhaps at 9:58. According to Mineta’s testimony, Cheney had arrived some time prior to 9:20. Mineta’s time is consistent with many other reports about Cheney’s descent to the PEOC. The Zelikow-led Commission even contradicted Cheney’s own account. Speaking on NBC’s Meet the Press five days after 9-11, Cheney said: “ After I talked to the president, I went down into…the Presidential Emergency Operations Center…When I arrived there within a short order, we had word the Pentagons’ been hit. In an Interview for a CNN story a year later, Cheney repeated that he was in the PEOC before word about the Pentagon strike was received,.(which reportedly occurred at about 9:38). This fact was also confirmed by Condoleezza Rice on ABC news television program one year after 9-11 based on interviews by Peter Jennings. The 9-11 Commission’s time of 9:58 is clearly false and cannot be considered anything other than an outright lie. This shows that nothing the Commission says can be accepted on faith. According to Mineta’s account, the vice President knew at least ten minutes earlier, by 9:26, that a plane was headed towards the Pentagon. The Commission’s claim is that the military did not know that an aircraft was approaching the Pentagon until 9:36, so that it had at most one or two minudtes to react to the unidentified plane approaching Washington. So the 9-11 Commission simply OMITTED Mineta’s testimony from the final report. One can understand such an omission of course because the purpose of the Zelikow-led Commission was to protect the Bush administration’s account of 9-11. This omission is not consistent with the claim that the Commission’s purpose as stated by Kean and Hamilton was “to provide the fullest possible account of the events surrounding 9-11. sadly,your "New" Story is so old,it died of Old Age! All the Tape-Transcript show is a Giant Goofup by the Military!

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Sat 09/15/12 11:13 AM
actually,it is the CTs New Story,since all the other ones have suffered a painful Demise! And as I suspected! SNAFU at NORAD on 9/11,and then it went FUBAR! Lucky it wasn't a full Attack by China or Russia! No gigantic Conspiracy,just simple Confusion! Only Conspiracy taking Place is on the Conspiracy-Sites!

InvictusV Joined Sun 11/23/08 Posts: 5282	Sat 09/15/12 11:45 AM
The 9-11 Commission cannot be assumed to be above deceit. At the Commissions’ hearing on May 23, 2003, Norman Mineta testified that on the morning of 9-11, after arriving at the White House and stopping to see Richard Clarke (the national coordinator for security and counterterrorism), he went down to the Presidential Emergency Operations Center (PEOC) under the White House, where Vice President Cheney was in charge. Mineta then told Vice Chair Lee Hamilton of the 9-11 Commission: “During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, “The plane is 50 miles out.” “The plane is 30 miles out.” And when it got down to “the plane is 10 miles out,” the young man also said to the Vice President, “Do the order still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, “Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?” When Mineta was asked by Commissioner Timothy Roemer how long this conversation occurred after he arrived, Mineta said: “Probably about five or six minutes.” Which, as Roemer pointed out, would mean “about 9:25 or 9:26. This story was very threatening to the account that would be provided in the 9-11 Commission Report. According to that account, Cheney did not even enter the PEOC until almost 10:00, perhaps at 9:58. According to Mineta’s testimony, Cheney had arrived some time prior to 9:20. Mineta’s time is consistent with many other reports about Cheney’s descent to the PEOC. The Zelikow-led Commission even contradicted Cheney’s own account. Speaking on NBC’s Meet the Press five days after 9-11, Cheney said: “ After I talked to the president, I went down into…the Presidential Emergency Operations Center…When I arrived there within a short order, we had word the Pentagons’ been hit. In an Interview for a CNN story a year later, Cheney repeated that he was in the PEOC before word about the Pentagon strike was received,.(which reportedly occurred at about 9:38). This fact was also confirmed by Condoleezza Rice on ABC news television program one year after 9-11 based on interviews by Peter Jennings. The 9-11 Commission’s time of 9:58 is clearly false and cannot be considered anything other than an outright lie. This shows that nothing the Commission says can be accepted on faith. According to Mineta’s account, the vice President knew at least ten minutes earlier, by 9:26, that a plane was headed towards the Pentagon. The Commission’s claim is that the military did not know that an aircraft was approaching the Pentagon until 9:36, so that it had at most one or two minudtes to react to the unidentified plane approaching Washington. So the 9-11 Commission simply OMITTED Mineta’s testimony from the final report. One can understand such an omission of course because the purpose of the Zelikow-led Commission was to protect the Bush administration’s account of 9-11. This omission is not consistent with the claim that the Commission’s purpose as stated by Kean and Hamilton was “to provide the fullest possible account of the events surrounding 9-11. I want to know how Cheney knew where the plane was going? This post claims he knew 10 minutes before it hit the pentagon that it was going to hit the pentagon.. As if the pentagon is the only building of note in the DC area. Please explain how anyone knew that the pentagon was the target 10 minutes prior to it being struck..

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 09/15/12 12:34 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 09/15/12 12:55 PM
The 9-11 Commission cannot be assumed to be above deceit. At the Commissions’ hearing on May 23, 2003, Norman Mineta testified that on the morning of 9-11, after arriving at the White House and stopping to see Richard Clarke (the national coordinator for security and counterterrorism), he went down to the Presidential Emergency Operations Center (PEOC) under the White House, where Vice President Cheney was in charge. Mineta then told Vice Chair Lee Hamilton of the 9-11 Commission: “During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, “The plane is 50 miles out.” “The plane is 30 miles out.” And when it got down to “the plane is 10 miles out,” the young man also said to the Vice President, “Do the order still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, “Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?” When Mineta was asked by Commissioner Timothy Roemer how long this conversation occurred after he arrived, Mineta said: “Probably about five or six minutes.” Which, as Roemer pointed out, would mean “about 9:25 or 9:26. This story was very threatening to the account that would be provided in the 9-11 Commission Report. According to that account, Cheney did not even enter the PEOC until almost 10:00, perhaps at 9:58. According to Mineta’s testimony, Cheney had arrived some time prior to 9:20. Mineta’s time is consistent with many other reports about Cheney’s descent to the PEOC. The Zelikow-led Commission even contradicted Cheney’s own account. Speaking on NBC’s Meet the Press five days after 9-11, Cheney said: “ After I talked to the president, I went down into…the Presidential Emergency Operations Center…When I arrived there within a short order, we had word the Pentagons’ been hit. In an Interview for a CNN story a year later, Cheney repeated that he was in the PEOC before word about the Pentagon strike was received,.(which reportedly occurred at about 9:38). This fact was also confirmed by Condoleezza Rice on ABC news television program one year after 9-11 based on interviews by Peter Jennings. The 9-11 Commission’s time of 9:58 is clearly false and cannot be considered anything other than an outright lie. This shows that nothing the Commission says can be accepted on faith. According to Mineta’s account, the vice President knew at least ten minutes earlier, by 9:26, that a plane was headed towards the Pentagon. The Commission’s claim is that the military did not know that an aircraft was approaching the Pentagon until 9:36, so that it had at most one or two minudtes to react to the unidentified plane approaching Washington. So the 9-11 Commission simply OMITTED Mineta’s testimony from the final report. One can understand such an omission of course because the purpose of the Zelikow-led Commission was to protect the Bush administration’s account of 9-11. This omission is not consistent with the claim that the Commission’s purpose as stated by Kean and Hamilton was “to provide the fullest possible account of the events surrounding 9-11. I want to know how Cheney knew where the plane was going? This post claims he knew 10 minutes before it hit the pentagon that it was going to hit the pentagon.. As if the pentagon is the only building of note in the DC area. Please explain how anyone knew that the pentagon was the target 10 minutes prior to it being struck.. Why would you ask me that question? Well maybe you were not asking ME. Why don't you ask Cheney? And I did not see where it stated that Cheney knew what target the plane was going for. It was just headed for DC...... I am simply relating a testimony given to the 9-11 commission by Norman Mineta that the Zelikow-led 9-11 Commission simply OMITTED from the final report. I am not personally making any claims that I "know" how anyone (like Cheney) would know anything. You figure that out and make your own decision. I am simply showing that the 9-11 Commission controlled what they would keep and what they would omit from the official rewriting of their new account of 9-11 that absolves the Military and the Bush administration of anything that could be construed as complicity in the attack.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 09/15/12 12:39 PM
The 9-11 Commission cannot be assumed to be above deceit. At the Commissions’ hearing on May 23, 2003, Norman Mineta testified that on the morning of 9-11, after arriving at the White House and stopping to see Richard Clarke (the national coordinator for security and counterterrorism), he went down to the Presidential Emergency Operations Center (PEOC) under the White House, where Vice President Cheney was in charge. Mineta then told Vice Chair Lee Hamilton of the 9-11 Commission: “During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, “The plane is 50 miles out.” “The plane is 30 miles out.” And when it got down to “the plane is 10 miles out,” the young man also said to the Vice President, “Do the order still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, “Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?” When Mineta was asked by Commissioner Timothy Roemer how long this conversation occurred after he arrived, Mineta said: “Probably about five or six minutes.” Which, as Roemer pointed out, would mean “about 9:25 or 9:26. This story was very threatening to the account that would be provided in the 9-11 Commission Report. According to that account, Cheney did not even enter the PEOC until almost 10:00, perhaps at 9:58. According to Mineta’s testimony, Cheney had arrived some time prior to 9:20. Mineta’s time is consistent with many other reports about Cheney’s descent to the PEOC. The Zelikow-led Commission even contradicted Cheney’s own account. Speaking on NBC’s Meet the Press five days after 9-11, Cheney said: “ After I talked to the president, I went down into…the Presidential Emergency Operations Center…When I arrived there within a short order, we had word the Pentagons’ been hit. In an Interview for a CNN story a year later, Cheney repeated that he was in the PEOC before word about the Pentagon strike was received,.(which reportedly occurred at about 9:38). This fact was also confirmed by Condoleezza Rice on ABC news television program one year after 9-11 based on interviews by Peter Jennings. The 9-11 Commission’s time of 9:58 is clearly false and cannot be considered anything other than an outright lie. This shows that nothing the Commission says can be accepted on faith. According to Mineta’s account, the vice President knew at least ten minutes earlier, by 9:26, that a plane was headed towards the Pentagon. The Commission’s claim is that the military did not know that an aircraft was approaching the Pentagon until 9:36, so that it had at most one or two minudtes to react to the unidentified plane approaching Washington. So the 9-11 Commission simply OMITTED Mineta’s testimony from the final report. One can understand such an omission of course because the purpose of the Zelikow-led Commission was to protect the Bush administration’s account of 9-11. This omission is not consistent with the claim that the Commission’s purpose as stated by Kean and Hamilton was “to provide the fullest possible account of the events surrounding 9-11. sadly,your "New" Story is so old,it died of Old Age! All the Tape-Transcript show is a Giant Goofup by the Military! For you to even say that, shows that you are clueless and that you know absolutely NOTHING about it. What's more, you don't even read my posts. The NORAD tapes change the timeline of the usual military notifications, and puts all the blame on the FAA. The FAA is simply not that incompetent. And if they were, it would be hundreds of people who suddenly, on that specific day, became incompetent. Not believable.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 09/15/12 12:50 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 09/15/12 12:58 PM
actually,it is the CTs New Story,since all the other ones have suffered a painful Demise! And as I suspected! SNAFU at NORAD on 9/11,and then it went FUBAR! Lucky it wasn't a full Attack by China or Russia! No gigantic Conspiracy,just simple Confusion! Only Conspiracy taking Place is on the Conspiracy-Sites! This discussion is about the FACT that the Official account was changed and rewritten. It is not about any particular "conspiracy theory." IT IS A FACT that after the introduction of the NORAD tapes (which I believe were manufactured and fabricated) -- but nevertheless, they were accepted (by the 9-11 Commission) as authentic, and so the entire timeline and story became "Its not our fault because we were not notified by the FAA!!" So we could not respond... and we did not have time to shoot down flight 93.." So here is my conspiracy theory: Somewhere someone decided the story or idea of our government shooting down a plane full of people (flight 93)would not make for a very pretty or happy story. So they got a movie producer to not only make a fictional movie about the heroic passengers of flight 93, but probably to also manufacture the fake NORAD tapes, which they decided to say were real. Without the fake NORAD tapes, the story was that they failed to shoot down the planes and allowed them to crash into the towers and the Pentagon, ... but then someone did finally did decide to shoot down one of the planes (flight 93)... because there was plenty of time to do so according to the testimonies of Major General Larry Arnold and Colonel Alan Scott. There are the facts, make of them what you will but you cannot disprove them. They are facts.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 09/15/12 01:13 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 09/15/12 01:16 PM
So what was the Military's earlier claim? It was this: Having learned from the FAA about the hijacking of UA 93 at 9:16, NEADS was tracking it and was in position to shoot it down if necessary. (Although the claim about the 9:16 notification is not reflected in NORAD's timeline, which instead has "N/A" -- both Major General Larry Arnold and Colonel Alan Scott made this claim in their May 2003 testimony.) Also, the Military's earlier claims were that NEADS was prepared to act on a command, issued by vice President Cheney, to shoot down UA 93. After the 9-11 commission's assuming that the NORAD tapes provided the definitive account of NEADS conversations on 9-11, they concluded that Colonel Scott and General Arnold made false statements. The implication of the NORAD tapes is that virtually the entire account given by NORAD on September 18, 2001 -- which served as the official story from that date until the issuance of the 9-11 Commission Report in July 2004, --- was false.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 09/15/12 01:21 PM
actually,it is the CTs New Story,since all the other ones have suffered a painful Demise! And as I suspected! SNAFU at NORAD on 9/11,and then it went FUBAR! Lucky it wasn't a full Attack by China or Russia! No gigantic Conspiracy,just simple Confusion! Only Conspiracy taking Place is on the Conspiracy-Sites! It is all very "confusing" and I can understand why people are afraid to focus on the details. They are confused. But there IS a conspiracy. One way or another, there is a conspiracy, whether it is coming from two military leaders who are accused of lying, or whether it is coming from the 9-11 commission who omits testimony that does not suit them, there definitely IS A CONSPIRACY. And I'm not one tiny bit confused about that.

InvictusV Joined Sun 11/23/08 Posts: 5282	Sat 09/15/12 01:21 PM
The 9-11 Commission cannot be assumed to be above deceit. At the Commissions’ hearing on May 23, 2003, Norman Mineta testified that on the morning of 9-11, after arriving at the White House and stopping to see Richard Clarke (the national coordinator for security and counterterrorism), he went down to the Presidential Emergency Operations Center (PEOC) under the White House, where Vice President Cheney was in charge. Mineta then told Vice Chair Lee Hamilton of the 9-11 Commission: “During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, “The plane is 50 miles out.” “The plane is 30 miles out.” And when it got down to “the plane is 10 miles out,” the young man also said to the Vice President, “Do the order still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, “Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?” When Mineta was asked by Commissioner Timothy Roemer how long this conversation occurred after he arrived, Mineta said: “Probably about five or six minutes.” Which, as Roemer pointed out, would mean “about 9:25 or 9:26. This story was very threatening to the account that would be provided in the 9-11 Commission Report. According to that account, Cheney did not even enter the PEOC until almost 10:00, perhaps at 9:58. According to Mineta’s testimony, Cheney had arrived some time prior to 9:20. Mineta’s time is consistent with many other reports about Cheney’s descent to the PEOC. The Zelikow-led Commission even contradicted Cheney’s own account. Speaking on NBC’s Meet the Press five days after 9-11, Cheney said: “ After I talked to the president, I went down into…the Presidential Emergency Operations Center…When I arrived there within a short order, we had word the Pentagons’ been hit. In an Interview for a CNN story a year later, Cheney repeated that he was in the PEOC before word about the Pentagon strike was received,.(which reportedly occurred at about 9:38). This fact was also confirmed by Condoleezza Rice on ABC news television program one year after 9-11 based on interviews by Peter Jennings. The 9-11 Commission’s time of 9:58 is clearly false and cannot be considered anything other than an outright lie. This shows that nothing the Commission says can be accepted on faith. According to Mineta’s account, the vice President knew at least ten minutes earlier, by 9:26, that a plane was headed towards the Pentagon. The Commission’s claim is that the military did not know that an aircraft was approaching the Pentagon until 9:36, so that it had at most one or two minudtes to react to the unidentified plane approaching Washington. So the 9-11 Commission simply OMITTED Mineta’s testimony from the final report. One can understand such an omission of course because the purpose of the Zelikow-led Commission was to protect the Bush administration’s account of 9-11. This omission is not consistent with the claim that the Commission’s purpose as stated by Kean and Hamilton was “to provide the fullest possible account of the events surrounding 9-11. I want to know how Cheney knew where the plane was going? This post claims he knew 10 minutes before it hit the pentagon that it was going to hit the pentagon.. As if the pentagon is the only building of note in the DC area. Please explain how anyone knew that the pentagon was the target 10 minutes prior to it being struck.. Why would you ask me that question? Well maybe you were not asking ME. Why don't you ask Cheney? And I did not see where it stated that Cheney knew what target the plane was going for. It was just headed for DC...... I am simply relating a testimony given to the 9-11 commission by Norman Mineta that the Zelikow-led 9-11 Commission simply OMITTED from the final report. I am not personally making any claims that I "know" how anyone (like Cheney) would know anything. You figure that out and make your own decision. I am simply showing that the 9-11 Commission controlled what they would keep and what they would omit from the official rewriting of their new account of 9-11 that absolves the Military and the Bush administration of anything that could be construed as complicity in the attack. "According to Mineta’s account, the vice President knew at least ten minutes earlier, by 9:26, that a plane was headed towards the Pentagon." Again... This implies that Cheney knew the plane that was 17 minutes away from DC was headed to the pentagon.. When it would completely and totally impossible for anyone to know where this plane was going. Do you not see how illogical this timeline is? Do you think that Mineta would honestly implicate Cheney by purposely admitting that 17 minutes prior to the plane hitting the pentagon that he knew its precise destination? seriously?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 09/15/12 03:13 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 09/15/12 03:14 PM
The 9-11 Commission cannot be assumed to be above deceit. At the Commissions’ hearing on May 23, 2003, Norman Mineta testified that on the morning of 9-11, after arriving at the White House and stopping to see Richard Clarke (the national coordinator for security and counterterrorism), he went down to the Presidential Emergency Operations Center (PEOC) under the White House, where Vice President Cheney was in charge. Mineta then told Vice Chair Lee Hamilton of the 9-11 Commission: “During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, “The plane is 50 miles out.” “The plane is 30 miles out.” And when it got down to “the plane is 10 miles out,” the young man also said to the Vice President, “Do the order still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, “Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?” When Mineta was asked by Commissioner Timothy Roemer how long this conversation occurred after he arrived, Mineta said: “Probably about five or six minutes.” Which, as Roemer pointed out, would mean “about 9:25 or 9:26. This story was very threatening to the account that would be provided in the 9-11 Commission Report. According to that account, Cheney did not even enter the PEOC until almost 10:00, perhaps at 9:58. According to Mineta’s testimony, Cheney had arrived some time prior to 9:20. Mineta’s time is consistent with many other reports about Cheney’s descent to the PEOC. The Zelikow-led Commission even contradicted Cheney’s own account. Speaking on NBC’s Meet the Press five days after 9-11, Cheney said: “ After I talked to the president, I went down into…the Presidential Emergency Operations Center…When I arrived there within a short order, we had word the Pentagons’ been hit. In an Interview for a CNN story a year later, Cheney repeated that he was in the PEOC before word about the Pentagon strike was received,.(which reportedly occurred at about 9:38). This fact was also confirmed by Condoleezza Rice on ABC news television program one year after 9-11 based on interviews by Peter Jennings. The 9-11 Commission’s time of 9:58 is clearly false and cannot be considered anything other than an outright lie. This shows that nothing the Commission says can be accepted on faith. According to Mineta’s account, the vice President knew at least ten minutes earlier, by 9:26, that a plane was headed towards the Pentagon. The Commission’s claim is that the military did not know that an aircraft was approaching the Pentagon until 9:36, so that it had at most one or two minudtes to react to the unidentified plane approaching Washington. So the 9-11 Commission simply OMITTED Mineta’s testimony from the final report. One can understand such an omission of course because the purpose of the Zelikow-led Commission was to protect the Bush administration’s account of 9-11. This omission is not consistent with the claim that the Commission’s purpose as stated by Kean and Hamilton was “to provide the fullest possible account of the events surrounding 9-11. I want to know how Cheney knew where the plane was going? This post claims he knew 10 minutes before it hit the pentagon that it was going to hit the pentagon.. As if the pentagon is the only building of note in the DC area. Please explain how anyone knew that the pentagon was the target 10 minutes prior to it being struck.. Why would you ask me that question? Well maybe you were not asking ME. Why don't you ask Cheney? And I did not see where it stated that Cheney knew what target the plane was going for. It was just headed for DC...... I am simply relating a testimony given to the 9-11 commission by Norman Mineta that the Zelikow-led 9-11 Commission simply OMITTED from the final report. I am not personally making any claims that I "know" how anyone (like Cheney) would know anything. You figure that out and make your own decision. I am simply showing that the 9-11 Commission controlled what they would keep and what they would omit from the official rewriting of their new account of 9-11 that absolves the Military and the Bush administration of anything that could be construed as complicity in the attack. "According to Mineta’s account, the vice President knew at least ten minutes earlier, by 9:26, that a plane was headed towards the Pentagon." Again... This implies that Cheney knew the plane that was 17 minutes away from DC was headed to the pentagon.. When it would completely and totally impossible for anyone to know where this plane was going. Do you not see how illogical this timeline is? Do you think that Mineta would honestly implicate Cheney by purposely admitting that 17 minutes prior to the plane hitting the pentagon that he knew its precise destination? seriously? The assumption that Cheney may have known the exact target was just an assumption. The important point is Mineta's testimony about what transpired between Cheney and this young man who kept coming into the room and telling Cheney "The plane is 50 miles out." then he came in and said "The plane is 30 miles out." Then he got down to "the plane is 10 miles out, and the young man also said to Cheney "Do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President said "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" This was the testimony by Mineta to the 9-11 commission and the Commission decided to omit it. When Mineta was asked by Commissiner Timothy Roemer how long this conversation occurred after he arrived, Mineta said "Probably about five or six minutes." which, as Roemer pointed out, would mean "about 9:25 or 9:26. That testimony was threatening to the account that would be provided in the 9-11 Commission Report. According to that account, Cheney did not even ENTER the PEOC until almost 10:00, "perhaps at 9:58" According to Mineta's testimony, Cheney had arrived some time prior to 9:20. Mineta's time is consistent with many other reports about Cheney's descent to the PEOC. So the point is NOT if Cheney knew where the plane was headed... (IT WAS DEFINITELY HEADED TOWARDS DC...) but that he was not where the 9/11 Commission's final story claimed he was. So who is lying and why? And why would the Commission omit any testimony if they are truly looking for the TRUTH? BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT LOOKING FOR THE TRUTH. They are covering their *****.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 09/15/12 03:19 PM
Okay I actually found the testimony on Youtube. You can listen to it yourself... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y

InvictusV Joined Sun 11/23/08 Posts: 5282	Sat 09/15/12 03:46 PM
The 9-11 Commission cannot be assumed to be above deceit. At the Commissions’ hearing on May 23, 2003, Norman Mineta testified that on the morning of 9-11, after arriving at the White House and stopping to see Richard Clarke (the national coordinator for security and counterterrorism), he went down to the Presidential Emergency Operations Center (PEOC) under the White House, where Vice President Cheney was in charge. Mineta then told Vice Chair Lee Hamilton of the 9-11 Commission: “During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, “The plane is 50 miles out.” “The plane is 30 miles out.” And when it got down to “the plane is 10 miles out,” the young man also said to the Vice President, “Do the order still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, “Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?” When Mineta was asked by Commissioner Timothy Roemer how long this conversation occurred after he arrived, Mineta said: “Probably about five or six minutes.” Which, as Roemer pointed out, would mean “about 9:25 or 9:26. This story was very threatening to the account that would be provided in the 9-11 Commission Report. According to that account, Cheney did not even enter the PEOC until almost 10:00, perhaps at 9:58. According to Mineta’s testimony, Cheney had arrived some time prior to 9:20. Mineta’s time is consistent with many other reports about Cheney’s descent to the PEOC. The Zelikow-led Commission even contradicted Cheney’s own account. Speaking on NBC’s Meet the Press five days after 9-11, Cheney said: “ After I talked to the president, I went down into…the Presidential Emergency Operations Center…When I arrived there within a short order, we had word the Pentagons’ been hit. In an Interview for a CNN story a year later, Cheney repeated that he was in the PEOC before word about the Pentagon strike was received,.(which reportedly occurred at about 9:38). This fact was also confirmed by Condoleezza Rice on ABC news television program one year after 9-11 based on interviews by Peter Jennings. The 9-11 Commission’s time of 9:58 is clearly false and cannot be considered anything other than an outright lie. This shows that nothing the Commission says can be accepted on faith. According to Mineta’s account, the vice President knew at least ten minutes earlier, by 9:26, that a plane was headed towards the Pentagon. The Commission’s claim is that the military did not know that an aircraft was approaching the Pentagon until 9:36, so that it had at most one or two minudtes to react to the unidentified plane approaching Washington. So the 9-11 Commission simply OMITTED Mineta’s testimony from the final report. One can understand such an omission of course because the purpose of the Zelikow-led Commission was to protect the Bush administration’s account of 9-11. This omission is not consistent with the claim that the Commission’s purpose as stated by Kean and Hamilton was “to provide the fullest possible account of the events surrounding 9-11. I want to know how Cheney knew where the plane was going? This post claims he knew 10 minutes before it hit the pentagon that it was going to hit the pentagon.. As if the pentagon is the only building of note in the DC area. Please explain how anyone knew that the pentagon was the target 10 minutes prior to it being struck.. Why would you ask me that question? Well maybe you were not asking ME. Why don't you ask Cheney? And I did not see where it stated that Cheney knew what target the plane was going for. It was just headed for DC...... I am simply relating a testimony given to the 9-11 commission by Norman Mineta that the Zelikow-led 9-11 Commission simply OMITTED from the final report. I am not personally making any claims that I "know" how anyone (like Cheney) would know anything. You figure that out and make your own decision. I am simply showing that the 9-11 Commission controlled what they would keep and what they would omit from the official rewriting of their new account of 9-11 that absolves the Military and the Bush administration of anything that could be construed as complicity in the attack. "According to Mineta’s account, the vice President knew at least ten minutes earlier, by 9:26, that a plane was headed towards the Pentagon." Again... This implies that Cheney knew the plane that was 17 minutes away from DC was headed to the pentagon.. When it would completely and totally impossible for anyone to know where this plane was going. Do you not see how illogical this timeline is? Do you think that Mineta would honestly implicate Cheney by purposely admitting that 17 minutes prior to the plane hitting the pentagon that he knew its precise destination? seriously? The assumption that Cheney may have known the exact target was just an assumption. The important point is Mineta's testimony about what transpired between Cheney and this young man who kept coming into the room and telling Cheney "The plane is 50 miles out." then he came in and said "The plane is 30 miles out." Then he got down to "the plane is 10 miles out, and the young man also said to Cheney "Do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President said "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" This was the testimony by Mineta to the 9-11 commission and the Commission decided to omit it. When Mineta was asked by Commissiner Timothy Roemer how long this conversation occurred after he arrived, Mineta said "Probably about five or six minutes." which, as Roemer pointed out, would mean "about 9:25 or 9:26. That testimony was threatening to the account that would be provided in the 9-11 Commission Report. According to that account, Cheney did not even ENTER the PEOC until almost 10:00, "perhaps at 9:58" According to Mineta's testimony, Cheney had arrived some time prior to 9:20. Mineta's time is consistent with many other reports about Cheney's descent to the PEOC. So the point is NOT if Cheney knew where the plane was headed... (IT WAS DEFINITELY HEADED TOWARDS DC...) but that he was not where the 9/11 Commission's final story claimed he was. So who is lying and why? And why would the Commission omit any testimony if they are truly looking for the TRUTH? BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT LOOKING FOR THE TRUTH. They are covering their ***. "According to Mineta’s account, the vice President knew at least ten minutes earlier, by 9:26, that a plane was headed towards the Pentagon."** This doesn't say DC this says the pentagon. This is a literary trick being used to imply that Cheney knew the pentagon was the target. The author undoubtedly wants the reader to believe Cheney knew the target because it was an inside job or that he allowed it to happen because it was an inside job. Cheney could have been on the moon planting a garden and no one would give a rats a$$.. But muddy the waters and make it sound like he knew where the target was and allowed it to happen ....<POOF>... you have a conspiracy..

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 09/15/12 05:00 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 09/15/12 05:01 PM
So what was the Military's earlier claim? It was this: Having learned from the FAA about the hijacking of UA 93 at 9:16, NEADS was tracking it and was in position to shoot it down if necessary. (Although the claim about the 9:16 notification is not reflected in NORAD's timeline, which instead has "N/A" -- both Major General Larry Arnold and Colonel Alan Scott made this claim in their May 2003 testimony.) Also, the Military's earlier claims were that NEADS was prepared to act on a command, issued by vice President Cheney, to shoot down UA 93. After the 9-11 commission's assuming that the NORAD tapes provided the definitive account of NEADS conversations on 9-11, they concluded that Colonel Scott and General Arnold made false statements. The implication of the NORAD tapes is that virtually the entire account given by NORAD on September 18, 2001 -- which served as the official story from that date until the issuance of the 9-11 Commission Report in July 2004, --- was false. **************************************** So the original story is that the military KNEW IN ADVANCE that there were planes and they were ready to shoot down flight 93. Other testimony indicated that Cheney himself knew there was a plane headed for DC or the pentagon .. But the NEW and revised account of the entire story says that NOBODY KNEW NOTHING BECAUSE THE FAA IS TOTALLY INCOMPETENT. ************************************************ Quite frankly I damn sure do not believe that story. So, yes, its a conspiracy and a cover-up. And the facts back that up to the letter!!

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 09/15/12 05:16 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 09/15/12 05:17 PM
The Military's earlier claims were that NEADS was prepared to act on a command, issued by vice President Cheney, to shoot down UA 93. So, did Cheney issue this command? Was UA 93 shot down? I think it was. Another question that keeps popping into my head is this. WHERE THE HELL WAS THE PRESIDENT? Was Dick Cheney acting as president? If so, why? Oh that's right, George Bush was.... where??? When was Dick Cheney sworn in as President, and why?

HotRodDeluxe Joined Sun 05/06/12 Posts: 2743	Sat 09/15/12 08:22 PM
This timeline is whacko and contrary to the actual tapes. How many assumptions can be stuffed into one hypothesis? Have you read the transcripts? Not what someone thinks they might mean, but actually read them?

HotRodDeluxe Joined Sun 05/06/12 Posts: 2743	Sat 09/15/12 08:25 PM Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Sat 09/15/12 08:42 PM
It is my opinion that Major General Larry Arnold and Colonel Alan Scott, did not lie to the 9-11 Commission in the reporting of the first official account of the response to 9-11. It is my opinion that the NORAD TAPES were altered and fabricated to rewrite the official account and absolve the Military of being complicit and treasonous and to absolve someone of shooting down flight 93 and standing down on the Pentagon attack. The reason is, that the first official account of 9-11 was far more obviously damaging and was the fuel to the flames of numerous conspiracy theories and there were too many questions that could not be answered. So the NORAD tapes were concocted so that history of 9-11 could be rewritten whereby all the incompetence and blame was laid upon the FAA. And yet no one in the FAA was fired. I think the events that led to the shooting down of flight 93 are where the story gets really interesting. As you state, this is merely your unsubstantiated opinion. You don't really have the supporting evidence to build this hypothesis, and this is my point in the other thread. There are too many leaps of logic and extrapolations regarding these tapes for anyone to take the hypotheses seriously.

HotRodDeluxe Joined Sun 05/06/12 Posts: 2743	Sat 09/15/12 08:29 PM Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Sat 09/15/12 08:55 PM
More Conspiracy? Maybe by now there is about a Million People involved,yet not one cracked! That whole thing is becoming extremely ridiculous! And how come you even are discussing the Evidence,since you think it is tainted? Tainted by THEM! Besides,any Airliner turning off it's Transponder becomes invisible,even to NORAD,or extremely difficult to locate! Why is the transponder issue always ignored in the CT's? Hence, the confusion evinced by the tapes.

HotRodDeluxe Joined Sun 05/06/12 Posts: 2743	Sat 09/15/12 08:39 PM Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Sat 09/15/12 09:18 PM
The Norad tapes!! All there is on the Norad tapes is a bunch of military guys finding out too late to do anything that there have been hijackings all morning. All the info shows that the planes had beacons off and could not be easily tracked and flew into the buildings or (in the case of flight 93) were taken down by the passengers before NORAD could scramble jets to their locations. It is a fascinating story and it does look like some of it was misrepresented possibly as face saving or possibly by accident but there is absolutely nothing on those tapes which conflicts in any way with all the existing other evidence that al-Qaeda planned and carried out the attacks. Does not matter at all what Norad was doing as they found out about each of the hijackings too late to do anything about them. In the end all the evidence is crystal clear. Everyone knows now what happened, how it happened and that al-Qaeda was responsible. Here is an interesting report on the Norad tapes though: http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2006/08/norad200608 A common claim among conspiracy theorists is that the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) issued a stand down order or deliberately scrambled fighters late to allow the hijacked airplanes to reach their targets without interference. According to this theory, NORAD had the capability of locating and intercepting planes on 9/11, and its failure to do so indicates a government conspiracy to allow the attacks to occur. The Web site emperors-clothes.com argues that the U.S. military failed to do their job. StandDown.net's Mark R. Elsis says, "There is only one explanation for this .... Our Air Force was ordered to Stand Down on 9/11." In September 2001, NORAD generals said they learned of the hijackings in time to scramble fighter jets. Later, the U.S. government released tapes claiming to show the Federal Aviation Agency (FAA) did not tell the military about the hijackings until three of the four planes had crashed, a fact that would indicate that the FAA repeatedly lied to other U.S. government agencies. Phil Molé of Skeptic magazine has explained that it is neither quick nor easy to locate and intercept a plane behaving erratically, and that the hijackers turned off or disabled the onboard radar transponders. Without these transponder signals to identify the airplanes, the hijacked airplanes would have been only blips among 4,500 other blips on NORAD’S radar screens, making them very difficult to track. According to Popular Mechanics, only 14 fighter jets were on alert in the contiguous 48 states on 9/11. There was no automated method for the civilian air traffic controllers to alert NORAD. A passenger airline had not been hijacked in the U.S. since 1979. "They had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. According to Popular Mechanics, only one civilian plane was intercepted in the decade prior to 9/11, which took one hour and 22 minutes. Rules in effect at that time, and on 9/11, barred supersonic flight on intercepts. Before 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ). "Until 9/11 there was no domestic ADIZ," says FAA spokesman Bill Schumann. After 9/11, the FAA and NORAD increased cooperation. They set up hotlines between command centers while NORAD increased its fighter coverage and installed radar to watch airspace over the continent. According to The Eleventh Day: The Full Story of 9/11 and Osama bin Laden, a book about the attacks published in 2011, the longest warning NORAD received of the hijackings was some eight minutes for American Airlines Flight 11, the first flight hijacked. The FAA alerted NORAD to the hijacked Flight 175 at just about the same time it was crashing into the World Trade Center's South Tower. The FAA notified NORAD of the missing – not hijacked – Flight 77 three minutes before it struck the Pentagon. NORAD received no warning of the hijack of United Flight 93 until three minutes after it had crashed in Pennsylvania. "...the longest warning NORAD received of the hijackings was some eight minutes."

HotRodDeluxe Joined Sun 05/06/12 Posts: 2743	Sat 09/15/12 08:53 PM
The 9-11 Commission cannot be assumed to be above deceit. No, but is as equally fallacious to accuse them of deceit by labelling possible errors as lies. The 9-11 Commission’s time of 9:58 is clearly false and cannot be considered anything other than an outright lie. Whether it is a lie, or an error is unknown, so, it is fallacious to label it a lie. This shows that nothing the Commission says can be accepted on faith. This is equally fallacious. If it is an error, or even a lie, it is not a given that everything else within the commission's report is invalid. According to Mineta’s account, the vice President knew at least ten minutes earlier, by 9:26, that a plane was headed towards the Pentagon. The Commission’s claim is that the military did not know that an aircraft was approaching the Pentagon until 9:36, so that it had at most one or two minudtes to react to the unidentified plane approaching Washington. So the 9-11 Commission simply OMITTED Mineta’s testimony from the final report. Well, Mineta's testimony was possibly dubious in itself, for no-one would have known that the Pentagon would be the target from a ten minute window. The trajectory was not immutable. How did he know the Pentagon was the target ten minutes prior to impact? I would have questioned the veracity of the witness's testimony on that point myself. One can understand such an omission of course because the purpose of the Zelikow-led Commission was to protect the Bush administration’s account of 9-11. Or Mineta's account may have been specious. This omission is not consistent with the claim that the Commission’s purpose as stated by Kean and Hamilton was “to provide the fullest possible account of the events surrounding 9-11. It is consistent, if Mineta was full of it.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Sat 09/15/12 08:56 PM
This timeline is whacko and contrary to the actual tapes. How many assumptions can be stuffed into one hypothesis? Have you read the transcripts? Not what someone thinks they might mean, but actually read them? Which timeline are you referring to? I am not making this stuff up Hotrod. I am comparing the first official account as told by the Military and the second "official" account as written by the 9-11 Commission. I am not making this stuff up. These are the facts of what happened. Are you not even reading my posts? What is it that you do not understand? What are you confused about?