Tribo, do you seek truth or do you believe you have found it?

No, it would be a place full of stones.

What i have found is what i believe to be the most fundamental truth that is available to believe. It is when others complicate it that it appears to be more than the simplest answer. It's existence, outside of making all other existence possible,By "chance", is for no other than to do so, period. It [waves/energy/particles/ and any other we may not know at present} have none of the attributes necessary to be a cognigant being that either loves,hates; thinks;talks;reasons;sorrows;or anything else given to the human state. That is all our doing. Like nature, it acts as it will, only on a much greater infinite level.

It's not something you "tap" into, as many may think or believe, just being is all that's necessary to be part of it. whether your an incredibly wise rock [humor] or a stupid human [serious] makes no difference.

It would be a place full of life untouched by mankind, that would be amazing.

So why are you so down on mankind?

As much as I agree that waves, energy and particles don't individually have the same "intelligent" attributes that we do, I don't know why you feel that is such a great fundamental truth.

You basically are saying the same thing that evolutionist are saying.

That from out of a universe of star dust, elements and particles, somehow, by chance, life and consciousness was born and evolved into cognizant beings.

That somehow, probably by random accident, quantum particles, energy and matter gathered itself up into the right combinations and created intelligent life and consciousness.

Nothing knew in that hypothesis.

But I will ask you the same thing I ask everyone. At what point did THAT miracle happen?

At what point was life and consciousness born?

LOL, is that what you get from what i write, lol

I think mankind is great, it is mankind's stupidity, that flaws it. I see no way to escape such as i am human also. But it does not mean i have to participate in mankind's down fall any more than necessary to live. You say i "over-think" to me there is no such thing, unless due to that thinking you find answer's that then require no more thinking upon such as you have found. That may be the end of it unless others can bring to light something that starts you back to re-thinking upon it more at some future point. :)

I'm not out to defend my points here, I'm only offering what i see as the case in point. If anyone can show me flawed thinking or concept, of course i will take that into consideration,but it has to be other than mystical or religious or other types of objections to what i'm stating. I have no room for man thinking he is anymore than man, i have inside knowledge of man, i am one, that is the only true knowledge anyone can ever really have.

You appear to be a person who has realized that the common belief in a supreme being (outside of yourself) that you can "pray to" for help does not exist. Perhaps at one time you did believe this and the discovery that it was not true was traumatic for you.

So what you want to share with others is:

There is no God.
He won't answer your prayers.

Another question:

Did this revelation bring you joy or sadness?
How did it effect your life?

Also:

What roll does vibration play in our own lives and existence?

We agree on so many things. Yes, there is no beginning and no end. Yes, everything is vibration. There is no time, so there is no beginning or end.

If you will notice I did not ask you "when."

I asked... "At what point....."

To be more specific, I will reword it.

At what point in this eternal process does an inanimate, unconscious, non-living particle become alive and conscious?

My apologies, had to go with my son to the store, just got back.


I believe that as the universe had reached a point where there was enough material to combine to make the first atoms that formed by electromagnetic attractions, such as are found in chemistry, that this was the beginning of what was to become higher forms of both life and eventually cognizant life.

First the most basic atoms of gas like hydrogen formed with carbon, with all the others followed suit. this lead to large areas of mass that again became the stars[suns] and the planets among all else. Why we have the un-countable variations of both of these along with everything else, shows me that it was random, not designed. The similarity being only in that the like substances made up all that is. [as far as we know] I keep the door open on that because of many materials that have been discovered since modern science has been around. Though as of now i don't think suggestions of silica life form make any sense.

I believe that like we see and can understand from nature that the causation that wrought this, could well be just like a lac bug or others where the dye/resin/and wax are made in varying levels through out the process, a dim view of a infinite scale of observance, but used as example only. If this holds true then that would mean that larger amounts of substance would or could have developed closer together and formed the denser attributes of all we can see. leaving much room for more open areas. Those areas that did attain denser material,such as the galaxies and within them the solar systems, continued to gather more density, in our case, the hydrogen/oxygen levels capable of producing water.

from here i can answer your question as such, nothing is inanimate[ remeber the rock?] everything vibrates, thus everything has life [movement] with movement comes the ability to connect, when connected higher substances are formed, when they have formed in such away as to be more alive [if that is what your reffering to] to be able to form a substance that has the ability to recognize it is alive then that is the point of which your asking of.

The "demarkation" of such if your reffering to ourselves will never be known. what is needed to know is that it does do so. Past that, all is speculation.

LOL, i don't believe in prayer at all. Yes i did at one point for sure, but time has a way of seeing to it that that what you have done is useless, what will be will be. Prayers are neither heard or answered - meaning - it is as most a game of percentages that we give credence to buy uplifting times when it seems to be the case and downplay those times it is not. rarely do i hear someone talk of unanswered prayer, only those they believe are answered, you could pray to any imaginary figure and get like results.

I'm not a supreme being, I'm a human being, no more no less, just as flawed as everyone else.

I want to share the fact that this is it!! there is nothing that you will have or gain or experience after you leave this vibratory existence.

That makes me calm, it takes away from the not knowing or proverbial doubts of where i stand in the scheme of things. this leads to "enjoying life" to the fullest extent i am able. It also leads to not having to play "psycho to the Psychiatrist, as were doing now, lol.

the molecular makeup of our beings allow us to exist as we perceive existence. problem with that is we perceive ourselves wrongly.We believe we are more than what we are and that gives us some sort of one upmanship over all else. the highest form is really no more than the lowest form, we are not brilliant we are stupid. everything we have accomplished with the state of mind we have held for centuries, from the first records of written history or myth etc, show us or should do so, just how stupid we are. we have learned nothing as it should be, with all our own patting ourselves on the backs for inventing or improving mans existence, our morals [that which we live sociably by] has not improved 1 iota.

We could be better in that sense, but we won't be, till the problem comes to a head and then there will be little and few to do so if any.

I agree.....everything is alive.




If there is no god, (or no "being") that is supreme or superior to a human, then you/we are the supreme being(s) of this universe. (Unless you know of a living being that is superior to humans, which there may be..) (By "superior" I mean more conscious, more intelligent, more self aware etc..)



There was a time in my life when I believed exactly that.

But what you want to share is your belief that this is it and that there is nothing you will have or gain or experience after you leave this vibratory existence. That is your belief.

You can't say that it is a fact. You can only say that you believe it is a fact.

This, (in my opinion) is a multi-dimensional universe and we are multi-dimensional (AND SPIRITUAL) beings.

You are convinced that this is the one and only dimension, and the one and only existence, but in contemplating an infinite universe and infinite vibrations and frequencies, I can't imagine that could possibly be true.

So I cannot accept your belief as a "fact."

Prayers are thoughts.

Thoughts are THINGS. They are vibrations. Vibrations always have an effect on the explicate" or "unfolded" order.

I tend to regard the universe according to David Bohm's theory of implicate and explicate orders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicate_and_explicate_order_according_to_David_Bohm

I also believe that prayers are always heard and always answered.

-- Hermetic law of vibration. (Law of attraction)

III. THE PRINCIPLE OF VIBRATION.

"Nothing rests; everything moves; everything vibrates." — The Kybalion.

Masters of Ancient Egypt. This Principle explains that the differences between different manifestations of Matter, Energy, Mind, and even Spirit, result largely from varying rates of Vibration. From THE ALL, which is Pure Spirit, down to the grossest form of Matter, all is in vibration — the higher the vibration, the higher the position in the scale. The vibration of Spirit is at such an infinite rate of intensity and rapidity that it is practically at rest — just as a rapidly moving wheel seems to be motionless. And at the other end of the scale, there are gross forms of matter whose vibrations are so low as to seem at rest. Between these poles, there are millions upon millions of varying degrees of vibration. From corpuscle and electron, atom and molecule, to worlds and universes, everything is in vibratory motion. This is also true on the planes of energy and force (which are but varying degrees of vibration); and also on the mental planes (whose states depend upon vibrations); and even on to the spiritual planes. An understanding of this Principle, with the appropriate formulas, enables Hermetic students to control their own mental vibrations as well as those of others. The Masters also apply this Principle to the conquering of Natural phenomena, in various ways. "He who understands the Principle of Vibration, has grasped the sceptre of Power," says one of the old writers.

I also believe that everything is mind.


I. THE PRINCIPLE OF MENTALISM.

"THE ALL is MIND; The Universe is Mental." — The Kybalion.

This Principle embodies the truth that "All is Mind." It explains that THE ALL (which is the Substantial Reality underlying all the outward manifestations and appearances which we know under the terms of "The Material Universe"; the "Phenomena of Life"; "Matter"; "Energy"; and, in short, all that is apparent to our material senses) is SPIRIT, which in itself is UNKNOWABLE and UNDEFINABLE, but which may be considered and thought of as AN UNIVERSAL, INFINITE, LIVING MIND. It also explains that all the phenomenal world or universe is simply a Mental Creation of THE ALL, subject to the Laws of Created Things, and that the universe, as a whole, and in its parts or units, has its existence in the Mind of THE ALL, in which Mind we "live and move and have our being." This Principle, by establishing the Mental Nature of the Universe, easily explains all of the varied mental and psychic phenomena that occupy such a large portion of the public attention, and which, without such explanation, are non-understandable and defy scientific treatment. An understanding of this great hermetic Principle of Mentalism enables the individual to readily grasp the laws of the Mental Universe, and to apply the same to his well-being and advancement. The Hermetic Student is enabled to apply intelligently the great Mental Laws, instead of using them in a haphazard manner. With tire Master-Key in his possession, the student may unlock the many doors of the mental and psychic temple of knowledge, and enter the same freely and intelligently. This Principle explains the true nature of "Energy," "Power," and "Matter," and why and how all these are subordinate to the Mastery of Mind. One of the old Hermetic Masters wrote, long ages ago: "He who grasps the truth of the Mental Nature of the Universe is well advanced on The Path to Mastery." And these words are as true to-day as at the time they were first written. Without this Master-Key, Mastery is impossible, and the student knocks in vain at the many doors of The Temple.