You should listen to Arlo Guthrie's "Alice's Restaurant" when you're in that stage...

A classic!

The Abbey Road Experience.

Many times while reviewing a piece of music I'll have listeners jump in for the ride. Here is a copy of one of those times.

"I think we will pick up the Abbey Road Experience here since there has been interest from several people. I invite you to join in and ask questions and make observations.

I will not promise you that I will make this recording the way you want it to sound but I will show you how much is in this big soundstage recording.



here's where we left off

hi Sonic

For years I have encouraged people to get involved with me in listening. I'm glad you are doing so.

The very first thing I do when starting with Abbey Road is go to the 10th track to develop my starter stage. Keep in mind that I've been listening with no high frequency brightness which is my own personal thing but people may do what they wish. I like turning bright into air. Detail and bright are not the same thing at all in my book. if I ever hear bright I know that I've got blockage and this blockage is almost always caused from something in the system being too heavy.

got my ears on

So, I pop on 10 and with one 5 second adjustment on the canopy over the receiver I start listening. I have my tape measure by just so I can paint a little picture. The crickets (sounds like a single cricket) are 35' wide and 25' deep start to finish. There is a very nice movement that happens with no jumps across the stage and not a cricket near the speakers ever. You can hear the tape loop stop and start midstage but it stays right in place. A good start. The crickets are very defined with a medium space around them. It definately puts me outside. The center of the cricket image is about 8' tall but this can be put anywhere height wise. I'll leave it where it is at cause I like it and move on. I start the song again and listen to the mallets hitting the cymbals. This song along with the rest of the recording is a panning masterpiece. This is demonstrated by the romantically paced cymbal hitting that goes on while the cymbals are paned along with the guitar. While the cricket starts his journey the instruments begin on the opposite side 10' left of center The first splash goes from left to right starting about 3' left of my left speaker and flows across the stage. As soon as it dies another hit of the cymbal starts, and this continues. The drums starting in the same general area also makes the soft gentle pan left to right. These are both very important cause they make the movement of the guitar very pleasing as they support the space and fill it with a sound wall deep and rich. Once the drums make it to the right side the stage is full of air and stays full to greet the vocals. But while your waiting you are taken away by the movement sweeping from side to side while staying very full. As soon as the drums arrive there are no holes in the stage anywhere. It's like sitting in a 3D movie. The bass stays very stable as the rest of the music moves. It's nice to go back to the bass once in a while to hear it deal with it's recording blips but who cares It's part of the fun.

So there you have it my first minute into the sun king.

BTW, at anytime if you hear something happen in the music that is cool let me know so if I don't get it I can make it happen. I love playing!

note: Did you know the Beatles White Album was one of the first big recordings that jumped from the 4 track machine to 8 tracks. You can hear George Martin put all eight to good use on Abbey Road.

Bill speaking

Here's what I'm hearing on my own system on Sun King:

The crickets span 10' from right to left, and about 5' deep. Essentially, the width of the room and the depth of the room behind the speakers. The transition is smooth and not difficult to follow.

It took me a while to identify the cymbals in the mix. The cymbal and the guitar go through the same width and depth as the crickets, but starting on the opposite side. They seem to disappear at times- I don't think I'm getting enough clarity and low-level resolution to reveal them as continuous.

The soundstaging is actually very large and clear compared to any other system I've ever owned, even though it isn't extending much beyond the speakers or the room boundaries at the moment.

MG
Great Bill, excellent!

How tall are the crickets and do they at any time go into the speakers?

Do you hear the panning back and forth with the guitar? How high is the guitar and how full?

When the instruments start on the left side do they start at the speaker or just left of the speaker?

Do they sound like they are starting in the speaker or just above it?

Bill
Hi Michael,

The crickets are 5' tall. As for whether they go into the speakers, I find that kind of hard to answer for the Quads. The Quads are 32" wide and 26" tall, so that encompasses a pretty large area. It doesn't usually sound like things are coming from the panels themselves- with the very start of the crickets, it sounds like it's about 6" to the right and a foot behind. As they move to the left they sound like they are behind the panel, rising in an arc towards the center of the room.

Yes, I definitely hear the panning of the guitar. At its full height in the center, it's about 4 feet. The fullness seems to be somewhat less than that of the bass guitar. From what I can hear, it starts out strongly and then seems to lower in volume after a few riffs.

When the instruments start out, they sound a few inches to the left of the speaker, and behind it a bit. Like the crickets, they transition across the speaker in a rising arc.

The instruments definitely do not start above the panel. They sound like they are at about 2/3 the height of the panel. Maybe this is the panel speaker equivalent of above the speaker?

MG
HI Bill

So here's what I'm basically getting.



Bill

You mean this is what you're hearing in your room?

That's similar to the pattern I hear also, except that everything at the far left and right sides is much lower because the Quads are so low.

MG

Yes, this is my room only the image is bigger than I can draw. See how easy it is? The first step to real is right in front of you.

You now know a couple things about your present system without even going any further.

You know your system is in phase and able to produce the soundstage.

You know that either the speakers need to be raised or the speakers are causing blockage which can pull the stage down toward the speaker.

You also may be getting blockage from the equipment or the transfer.

You know that by the size of your stage it can be opened up more if you wish (making the instruments bigger).

But basically you can begin fine tuning the sound making it to your liking.

Ok folks

Lets work on tonal balance just for a second before moving on. You have by now located and followed to cymbals right? Well a way to know if your setup has got blockage in the upper mids highs is to look at the cymbals and hi hat.

The first cymbal hit is a ride that starts in with that group over to the left yet not up front but behind the drums bass and guitar. The splash is 3 feet wide and flows for about 8' toward the center and back to 10'as it fills out and dissolves into the stage. The next cymbal splashes to the right (on my setup) about 8' back and 8'wide to flow just to the outside of the room if your room ends at your speakers being close to the wall. The decay on this cymbal goes pretty deep in the stage I would say around 15' on some of the hits and a little less on others. The hi hat appears in front of this cymbal right of the center of it 3' behind the speakers and a little to the right of the speaker. On my setup I sometimes will bring the Hi Hat in front of the speaker but let's do the easy stuff first. The hi hat seems very real sized saying that it was probably close miked. Now here's the important part and the one that is tempting to lie or cheat on the test (there is no test). Almost all high end systems have a problem with brightness. Most times we call this detail but it is nothing more than a gathering of frequencies around the higher notes that are compressed. This is not detail but the absence of the full range of frequencies that are around the note. Detail is when you can hear the hit and the air around the hit as well. There are very few microphones designed to pick up just the hit and highs of an instrument like a cymbal and I guarantee you that they were not used on this recording.

Your typical recorded cymbal is going to start around 300hz -600hz and depending on the type of cymbal over 20khz in decay. Surprised? If your hearing these 3 cymbals at a higher frequency say around 2khz-3khz without hearing the lower splash you have a very typical form of signal blockage. Here's where you need to be very honest with yourself cause it will make or break the recording later on. All 3 of these cymbals have size to them. If you are hearing the cymbal sounding more tight on this song without a 2' feet splash on the hi hat and 5' and up splash on the other 2 let me know. Splash on a good setup will go both up and down hz wise as the cymbal grows. If your hearing the cymbals only go up in pitch let me know. This is a sign of dampening.

Cymbals are a foundation to listening so always pay attention to the splash as you listen as this will tell you why somethings are working or not working. Here's why I'm harping on this!!!!!! Cymbals in your recording can be used as your systems "equalizing tester". It's a trick that if you get it down and are always on the look out will help you keep your system from getting out of tonal balance. Cymbals I have found are better than any test CD. When I hear a cymbal shrink or head north on the scale I know I've got blockage building up and need to go rescue the frequencies in distress. It never fails!"

end of part one

Sometimes when listening to intense music for longer periods of time like complicated jazz, classical or power rock I need to give my brain a break from all the action. It's at times like these that I reach for the Joni Mitchell, Rickie Lee Jones, Tori Amos and most recently one of my new loves



A while back working in the studio an engineer was playing this crazy wild stuff that caught my ear. It was poppy in a way that I haven't heard in a while. I had been aware of Regina before and thought it was cute but never gave it much thought until then. I thought about her all the way home that flight and went straight to my CD shop upon arrival. Holy wow batman! I felt like I was released from prison. Such freedom in her style Regina has made it to my all time seriously fun list. This recording pulls me deep inside of the mood and I hang on every slurred jester and piano note. Her voice perfectly slide across the noted pitch in air. And her playing is like a sweet echo almost choral like to Regina's moods.

Am I in love again? I should be!

Nice ... cool

http://youtu.be/d5ku7q45ICQ

Thanks. Regina is a wonderful live performer. I enjoy how she gets her face around the notes & words. Plus the way she makes the instruments play to her motions as if they were one.

wow ... love it! Thanks for sharing.

Yep, Regina is very cool, and when people pick up the "begin to hope" CD and listen I recommend taking the time to listen to both Cds back to back cause both Cd 1 and 2 really fit well together in flow.

You're welcome! ....Michael has very good taste! Try this acoustic version of "Fidelity"...Shows off her amazing voice....

http://youtu.be/vgtsSld0shQ

Goose pimples, head to toe!

mg, where did you get this picture of heaven?? :P



will you listen to imogene heap's hide and seek for me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McDgDlnDX0Y, tell me if i should be jealous? :) cool thread!

a matter of taste

Something that I love about music is a matter of taste. There is so much music out there that we will never make it to the end of our exploration. Working in the studios, live events, owning stereo stores, being an audio designer and getting input from music lovers has shaped music listening for me in ways that I will never be able to fully express. Music has also opened my eyes to a far bigger world than I ever thought I would get to take in. The beauty of notes and all the different ways they are able to be given and taken in is a life time adventure that has become my being. It has made me into somewhat of a poet in my own mind, and a dancer in my own thoughts.

Music lovers have the privilege in todays world to take in more performances than ever before. What a rich time to be alive I think. I can hardly believe that I get to walk around my place and be surrounded by music not only as a life time occupation but also as a lifetime fan. Realistically (if you count the bluegrass years) I have been doing music since 13 years old. I consider myself a terrible musician, but thank God that in spite of this I have done nothing but music and the arts. People ask "does it get old"? They think that because I do this as a business that I need to take a break from it in some way. LOL, Take a break from music? That's like taking a break from breathing. It never ever gets old getting turned on.

My taste grows, so I could never really say that there is one particular type of music that rules my thinking. POP/rock/jazz/blues/folk/country/hip hop/classical have so intertwined that the lines have blurred into one big barrel of fun. The nice thing is you can go down one path for a while and find your way back to where you started.

When I was in Pontiac working with Slum Village and Wu Tang some of my friends said "aren't you outside of your environment"? Fact is I spent many nights there jamming blues and gospel out with these guys & gals. I say gals because there was always some great gal vocalists hanging out belting out serious blues and harmony. So many soul artist during that time that it was hard to believe this was supposed to be the hangouts for hardcore gangster raps. The tough guy scene was only on the outside because of the image and lives these folks lived, but inside were some of the most spiritual beings you could be with. When they put on their soul at 4 in the morning it was like church broke loose. Keep in mind church with more smoke than you could imagine.

Same thing happened to me when I was in Nashville. Completely different crowd on the outside and nothing but soul on the inside. The bond that musicians have is universal when you strip it down to the core, and that's what I enjoy doing. I love getting down to the roots of the spirit and having all music be one continuum of song. All having something to say, a message to deliver. My only wish is that more could hear all the parts of the musicians soul that is left in the studio, practice room or mind.

The soul that happens between us as music lovers is something that has been handed to us from heaven. The bond between us is tight and everlasting. It also for the serious listener has few walls as the notes get into our veins.

I'm so glad that you are joining me on this thread.

Hey, great to see you! That's on "Speak For Yourself" right?

This pic is one of my listening rooms. I think I have my listening rooms posted on "mg's tuneland" but I should probably post them here so folks can see where I listen. http://mingle2.com/topic/show/305329

You would cry if you heard this in one of my sound stages, no kidding. I do!

Absolutely Michael!...Sometime I almost hate the question "What is your favorite music genre?" because I love music and can find something exciting in most categories....Also, discovering new art and artists is an ongoing, every changing thing....Comparison listening, old to new, finding the similarities disguised with a new technique....Hearing a jazz run in a country or pop song...The mix and match thing just slays me.....And the talent just gets more and more sophisticated...Like you said, a never ending supply of music...How cool is that my man....

OK, tweak time.

So you go to the store and buy a CD that you are sure is going to be great. You've heard the songs in your car or maybe on your home radio. You get the thing unpacked and put it on. Flat, boring, lifeless! Your so disappointed you just want to take it back or put it on a shelf never to play it again.

But wait!

Recordings are done differently depending on the studio, mastering and pressing/burning. It could be that the recording you just got was recorded out of absolute phase. Meaning, when the drivers (woofers and tweeters) are supposed to be pushing out, they are sucking in. This takes away from the dynamics of the sound. The way to fix this is to go to the back of your speakers and put the red in the black and the black in the red. You must do this on both speakers or they will be out of phase. So, take your speakers and flip the black for red and the red for black. Now listen. If the sound improved then you know it was out of absolute phase. You might want to mark your CDs that are out of AP and when you play them make the flip for only them, then put your wires back to normal. It's not going to hurt your speakers in any way and may just make a bad sounding CD sound good again.

BTW listening to Equinox "this probably won't work out"

I enjoy the mellow side of these guys.

Another work week begins at TuneVilla.

While the saws are screaming and the smell of instrument finish is in the air out back I am in my writing room preparing for another fun week. A great CD for both sit down serious listening and for music flowing through the place is one of my favorites.



You will hear me talking about Floyd more than any other band I would think. My workers would listen to Floyd non-stop if they could.

do 2 computer speakers count as a stereo system ????

Hello my king!

Actually the computer world is getting closer than people think. I have 2 computer audio systems and have worked on a few others.

For people who have their stock computer and use it for their main listening I have been turning them on to a secret I have found on an on-line store. It's a setup that is very close to audiophile quality and is only $59.00 when it is on sale. Shocking, and with a couple of simply things like solid core cable the sound is surprisingly good.



The speakers come with this plug in amp that goes on your computer audio outs.

Yes it is but I have a tradition. I only listen to this song once a year. At precisely noon on Thanksgiving Day. Strange perhaps but it's how I roll.....