I would love to start learning that. Get up with the sun and go to bed with the chickens.

My sister always used a wood stove, but wood has gotten more expensive than gas if you buy it. Its more work if you chop and haul your own. Now they are getting too old for that kind of hard work. She still has a wood stove, but they don't use it much anymore. Its a nice heat and they keep it for back up.

The thing I would miss the most is my computer of course.

Atlantis is a lesson (just as was the wings that melted).

Each tells of a failure to be cautious with technology.

But if one takes that lesson to far.

Civilizations fall for LACK of technology.

which leads to tales of woe where God is blamed for mans stupidity.

Each thing has a measure.

But for the measure of Mankind one must have a wide balance or the individual will never find its narrow gate.

We are a spectrum and not a line.

I think a balance needs to be maintained.

I think our world is out of balance.

People have lost touch with the natural world and their lives depend on technology and the grid.

Millions will die when that is destroyed.

Not to mention they don't know how to bake bread or kill their meat or pluck a chicken.

Funny thing about being hungry and cold...

You learn fast or die.

The part that is out of balance is not technology.

It is the spritual health of the community.

Some individuals are 'advanced' yet some still have the same spritual level as Cain of the time of Adam.

Edit** If Mankind should reach a point of Unity within its full spectrum.

Our combined capacity would make such things as cars, planes and boats no longer necessary.

We are Gods Child.

Faith then could not only move mountains.

It could lift us all.

Yeh, the psychopaths. (see the science forum)

Very fasinating stuff.

Ghengis Kahan might have been a psychopath and possibly Hitler.

But Cain was just a man.

He fed the Beast of War with his anger.

And the Beast rose up in him and used it.

But he did not kill from a lack of emotion but rather an overdose of a dark emotion.

I don't know what you mean when you say "but Cain was just a man."

Psychopaths are just people too. (they lack compassion not emotion. Anger they have plenty of that when they don't get what they want.)

To me, Cain is probably just a story. Such an old story could be nothing more than myth.

I have similar goals.

I want to get some rural land, and build a container home. Shipping containers can be purchased on the cheap, and ultimately cuts the cost of building by 1/3 to 1/2 dependent on how you finish it out.

All steel means it will last longer than I will with no real repairs needed to the main structure.

Military grade spray insulation and paint insulators work just as good as modern construction insulation and the structure need not look like a storage container. The containers fit together securely and exceed most code by a factor of 10 or more.

Examples can be found all over the net, and the reality is that with the US manufacturing production being so much less than what we import we have huge stock piles of these containers at every port.

Sounds lovely.

Search Google images for container homes. (My links dont work doh!)

Clearly you have no clue, becuase modern construction is ugly as hell 98% through the process, a tiny veneer of finish makes a home look good.

Tell me this aint a good looking home!


http://www.ecofriend.com/entry/eco-homes-quebec-architect-designs-dream-home-from-dilapidated-shipping-containers/

This home cost much less than conventional construction and far exceeds code.


>> better link that shows more pics
http://www.ecofriend.com/entry/eco-homes-maison-idekit-homes-build-beautiful-home-from-shipping-containers/

I'm actually thinking of using shipping containers as the forms to pour the concrete against, then partially bury them. I've seen the containers for less than $1,000, and I don't mind dents and dings and doors not working on something I'm going to cover with concrete and bury anyway.

It's either that, or the styrofoam blocks that you build with, almost like legos, then fill with concrete.

If I wanted non-traditional form, I could use spray-crete and build the equivalent of an in-ground pool. Spray-crete is expensive and difficult to work with, though, so most likely I won't. My family owns a concrete pump fitted with an air compressor that would do the job, but you're still looking at $100 a yard for material, plus reinforcing steel, and I'd probably need an engineer to design the thickness and steel reinforcement.

Exactly, which is why containers are so attractive. You avoid expensive materials, worrying about proper techniques and mistakes elevating costs.

You get an extremely strong framework. My only concern is transport of the container to the site. I am still researching that aspect. Of course I need the land first, and that isn't cheap unless its WAAY out in the boonies.

I was going to also build a in ground pool with the containers, 50K dollar pool for 10K sounds good to me.

I have a corner lot next to where I live that I would like to build a house on but I don't know how I can afford a traditional house. Maybe I should start looking into how to build a container home. How big are those containers anyway?

From the wikipedia article on Containerization:

ISO standard
Main article: Intermodal container

"There are five common standard lengths, 20-ft (6.1 m), 40-ft (12.2 m), 45-ft (13.7 m), 48-ft (14.6 m), and 53-ft (16.2 m). United States domestic standard containers are generally 48 ft (15 m) and 53-ft (rail and truck). Container capacity is often expressed in twenty-foot equivalent units (TEU, or sometimes teu). An equivalent unit is a measure of containerized cargo capacity equal to one standard 20 ft (length) × 8 ft (width) container. As this is an approximate measure, the height of the box is not considered, for instance the 9 ft 6 in (2.9 m) High cube and the 4-ft 3-in (1.3 m) half height 20 ft (6.1 m) containers are also called one TEU."
*snip*
"The original choice of 8-foot (2.4 m) height for ISO containers was made in part to suit a large proportion of railway tunnels, though some had to be modified. With the arrival of even taller containers, further enlargement is proving necessary.[17]"

I have a friend who is in metal fabrication, I was a super for a remodeling company. I believe between the two of us we could build a 1200 SQft container home in a week all in our spare time. Septic, plumbing, electrical would then be installed in the next week or so and the finish put on within the next two weeks. Complete house in 6 weeks with minimal labor costs.

My problem is affording the land at the moment, Florida is not a happy place to buy land ATM.

How well insulated are these metal containers? They sound like they would be hard to heat.

Look into straw bale houses, JB. Believe it or not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw-bale_construction

In 1998 Maine (and other parts of the Northeast) had what was referred to at the Great Ice Storm. The place where I was planning to build my house lost power for three WEEKS. So when I started the building a year later, I made sure it was passive solar and had all the gas appliances I could get, including a nonelectric propane heater (most of them require electricity for the pilot light). I considered a propane refrigerator, but they cost 3 or 4 times what an electric one does. I was seriously considering getting a generator, too, but one big enough to run all the appliances I'd need would have cost several thousand dollars, so I let it go. They're also noisy. And I figured that for less than 100-year ice storms, I could get by for a few days fine. Over the 10 years I lived there we did have some power outages that really weren't as bad for me as for my all-electric friends.

Everyone wonders why I didn't have a fireplace or wood-burning stove, but it's just too much work for me. As MD said, it's really hard to control the heat. It's also very drying and dirty--soot gets inside no matter what, and there's always crud from the wood on the floor. The woodpile attracts vermin, so you want it away from your living space if not outside, so then you gotta carry the stuff--the inconvenience is endless. I've done enough of that to last me the rest of eternity.

Most people live in houses that are way too big, in my opinion. My house was 1100 square feet but because of its open plan and huge windows it felt like much more.

Modern insulation can be applied both to the interior and a paint based insulation to the exterior. From what I have read they do as well as modern housing. The military has been using them for years, and many of new products were developed for applications in extreme conditions.

i used to have a hard time understanding why the world

was not the way it was supposed to be

it seemed to me so easy to fix these things

i used to think i could change things for the better for everyone

now i know i am up against an army of evil

once you find out the nwo plans

everything seems to fall into place

i used to read omni 20 + years ago

nothing happened

nothing happens by coincidence

almost everything is carefully planned and the exacuted

people are brainwashed by tv and movies

to think a certain way

and they think thats what they want

but they are programed to think that

so nothing changes



The Awakening-Final Version-Full Length Documentary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzEeq5Adi0c


Ted Gunderson - The Great Conspiracy Exposed 1/7 PL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5r3HELQBXI

watch all 7 parts

Volant7, I'm on board with what you are saying...and I find it too depressing to research how long we've been going in circles.

I've decided to change my own life, lead as an example to my family and friends, and let them decide if it is right for them.

Bravalady, I have also considered using the straw bale plan, mainly because I live in farm country and straw is very easily obtained and very inexpensive, plus, as they've shown, it is a great insulator and it can last for decades if done right. I'd much rather place straw bales in the ground for my concrete forms that styrofoam, but there are other issues with burying organic materials.

Bushidobillyclub, the reason I'm looking to move outside of the county where I live is because of real estate taxes...the land outside of city limits is pretty reasonable in terms of cost, but the taxes are still really high. If it weren't for my connection to family and friends, I'd move to Kentucky, where there is plenty of land and the cost as well as taxes are dirt cheap compared to here. I don't know what roots you to Florida, so moving may not be an option for you. Florida presents all sorts of building challenges due to soil conditions and humidity.

What I wanted more than the Con-Ex containers was to find some Quonset huts. Those things have really stood the test of time, and create a lot more open space. I'm sure they could be reinforced, as I've been inside enough ammo bunkers to know they just covered them with concrete, then shoved dirt over the top of them.

Jeanniebean, there are a wide range of insulation products that can be applied to the outside of the containers to maximize indoor space, or, like Bushidobillyclub indicates, you could frame walls on the inside against the container wall to run your electricity, etcetera and insulate those walls. A combination of both would probably be a good idea, and the straw bales could be included on the outside as well.