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Topic: US Judge rules Muslims have a right to assault people
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Wed 02/29/12 09:51 AM
Im also suspect that all 'long pauses' were removed, although the tape is 37 minutes long,,,,,there is no telling what was really edited out or what it adds to the context,,


Of course. Just like every single video clip we've ever seen on Fox or CNN.




no photo
Wed 02/29/12 09:57 AM


I am an atheist, and I am ardently opposed to sharia law.

However, this line really caught my attention:


The defendant is an immigrant and claims he did not know his actions were illegal,


If I was the judge, I might seriously consider suspending penalties in a case like this - telling him that if he ever did anything like that again, he would be double-penalized.

Depending on how serious the attack was....

don't buy that

if he is in this country for even a brief time he knows that any type of violent act or physical aggression is actionable. Also, it is his responsibility to know what the laws are and he should be firmly disciplined.

religious extremists of all ilks warned that they must behave under the law in this country

including the presiding judge - who may require discipline and removal if this story is true - regardless of his religious leanings

religion is not above the law in the U.S. - that is what provides us the freedom to practice the religion of our choice. muslims who do not like that have several options on another continent

muslims who appreciate the freedom to practice their religion here can only be successful if they are able to understand that religion is not the law or above the law here AND that others do not have to abide by or accept their POV. I am sure there are plenty of muslims here who do that with little or no difficulty. It is the extremists who give all religions a bad name


Well it turns out that it wasn't much of an attack, after all.
Yes, he has to learn that this isn't acceptable. Suspending charges, with threat of doubling them in the future, can sometimes be an effective means of teaching that lesson.


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Wed 02/29/12 10:14 AM
Personally I would have never filled charges over something like this, however I cant tell you how often I have seen officials file charges over this and it never seems to get thrown out.

When a person of authority is accosted in such a situation its seen as someone attacking that authority and is dealt with harshly, but when a normal Joe just walking down the road dressed in a way not deemed appropriate is accosted, well . . . you shouldn't dress like that.

Remind anyone of the blaming the victim from rape cases where they say the person was asking for it based on the way they are dressed?

Its the double standard which raises my ire the most.

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Wed 02/29/12 11:58 AM

When a person of authority is accosted in such a situation its seen as someone attacking that authority and is dealt with harshly,


Absolutely.



Remind anyone of the blaming the victim from rape cases where they say the person was asking for it based on the way they are dressed?


I was thinking the same thing. This crime isn't comparable to rape, but the thinking behind blaming the victim is equally wrong.

TheCaptain's photo
Wed 02/29/12 12:07 PM
Your honor, I had no idea that driving while intoxicated was against the law..........

........I had no idea that taking something from the store that I didn't pay for was wrong..........

Blink blink blink

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Wed 02/29/12 12:43 PM

Your honor, I had no idea that driving while intoxicated was against the law..........

........I had no idea that taking something from the store that I didn't pay for was wrong..........

Blink blink blink


TheCaptain, your comments, as they are, are completely off topic and unrelated to anything thats been said.

We all know that - legally - one cannot use ignorance of the law as a legal defense for being exempt from the law.

But most of us also know that one of the purposes of having a trial is bring human judgement into the equation - its to have a human being look at extenuating circumstances. Being ignorant of the law, in some situations, absolutely can be an extenuating circumstance to be weighed in the decision.

Your comments, however, are so extreme as to be far removed from the topic. I'd like to critique them more thoroughly, but you don't really make much of a statement. You just make comments that are not related to what has been said so far.

What is your point?

TheCaptain's photo
Wed 02/29/12 12:46 PM
You got the point.

Tell me a civilized country that does not look at assault in a negative light.

There is no excuse.

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Wed 02/29/12 12:53 PM

You got the point.


Well, hope I didn't put words in your mouth.

Tell me a civilized country that does not look at assault in a negative light.


This seems like a setup for:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

We all agree that physically harming people is terrible, but I'm not convinced that the muslim did any physical harm, nor that he intended to.

As I understand it (I haven't listened to the full transcript, nor followed all the links) he seemed to want to take the beard and the sign.


yellowrose10's photo
Wed 02/29/12 01:00 PM
Actually the guy committed battery.


At common law, an intentional unpermitted act causing harmful or offensive contact with the "person" of another.


Regardless of whether the guy hit the other, doesn't matter. He had no right to put his hands on another person just because he doesn't like something

I had a friend (back in my pool shooting days) that worked at the local bar I shot pool. "Shorty" was a self proclaimed proud, short, black man laugh

On Halloween I walked in and saw someone dressed as KKK. My mouth dropped. Even if I didn't like the costume, I wouldn't have any right to snatch the hood off the head.

Well I watched the guy, then saw a black hand coming out of the robe and realized it was Shorty.

Now if a real KKK walked in...he wouldn't have any right to snatch the hood off of his head any more than I would.

Moral of the story....even if you are offended by someone's actions, you can't put your hands on that person

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Wed 02/29/12 01:09 PM
Edited by massagetrade on Wed 02/29/12 01:10 PM
Regardless of whether the guy hit the other, doesn't matter.


Though you are right to say that it doesn't matter to whether he meets the definition of battery, its wrong to say that it simply doesn't matter.

Of course it matters.

How could you say it doesn't matter whether he hit him? Do you really think that all sign-grabbers should always be treated exactly the same as people-hitters? That would really diminish the significance of hitting people. So yes, it does matter which form and degree of battery this was.

I would be seriously upset if a judge dismissed charges of a person who struck another person.

And while grabbing the sign is still illegal and wrong, I'm not nearly as upset that he wasn't found guilty as I would be if he had struck the atheist.



He had no right to put his hands on another person just because he doesn't like something

...

Moral of the story....even if you are offended by someone's actions, you can't put your hands on that person


True. And hopefully he knows this now. We don't need to penalize each and every person who violates every law.


yellowrose10's photo
Wed 02/29/12 01:15 PM

Though you are right to say that it doesn't matter to whether he meets the definition of battery, its wrong to say that it simply doesn't matter.

Of course it matters.

By definition of the battery law...it doesn't matter whether the person hit, kicked or aggressively touched the other guy. It is still battery and my explanation followed the remainder of the post you quoted.


How could you say it doesn't matter whether he hit him? Do you really think that all sign-grabbers should always be treated exactly the same as people-hitters? That would really diminish the significance of hitting people. So yes, it does matter which form and degree of battery this way.

I would be seriously upset if a judge dismissed charges of a person who struck another person.

And while grabbing the sign is still illegal and wrong, I'm not nearly as upset that he wasn't found guilty as I would be if he had struck the atheist.


Now you are talking about sentencing. The charge would be battery regardless. The degree of the battery would dictate the punishment.

For someone just grabbing a sign....could be a "don't do that again"
For someone that walked up and punched the person with the sign, it could be jail time and fine

Depends on what the judge decides. The DA can also refuse to take it to court.

A battery charge is a battery charge regardless of the battery. The punishment can still be different depending on the type of battery.

Just like speeding. It is speeding whether it is 5 miles over the speed limit or 50 miles over. But the fine/punishment might vary

no photo
Wed 02/29/12 02:10 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Wed 02/29/12 02:11 PM


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.



Exactly. Free speech doesn't matter. He was not prevented from "free speech" by the government.


Actually, the man in the parade WAS denied free speech, because the judge ruled that by dressing as a religious figure, he was creating "hate speech" and deserved to be assaulted. The judge upheld Sharia law, which states the assault was not only justified, but demanded.

The judge basically ruled that while you may mock Jesus, the Pope, Isis, Thor, Odin, Zeus or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, you man NOT mock Mohammed, or you risk justifiable assault.

And THAT, my friend, is not upholding the 1st Amendment.



When you put it that way it makes sense, but did the ruling set a precedent hence becoming law?

If so, then how so? What exactly was the ruling?

If it was concerning all "hate" speech, then we have opened the door to legal assaults all over the country including on politically incorrect comedians.

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