Topic: Tied up in a string
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Thu 12/08/11 03:34 PM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Thu 12/08/11 03:48 PM
Discover Magazine has an excellent blog called Cosmic Variance.

I found this particular article a sober approach to the topic of string theory, and the comments are very interesting.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2005/11/14/our-first-guest-blogger-lawrence-krauss/

My favorite comment.
15. Peter Woit Says:
November 14th, 2005 at 5:50 pm

A couple comments more directly about what Lawrence had to say, my earlier comment was somewhat tangential.

1. I’ve been thinking a bit about his question about string theory: “Is it worth talking about to the general public?” As far as my own blogging goes, this doesn’t really come up since my concept there is to write assuming I’m talking to professional colleagues, although with the hope that interested members of the public will sometimes tune in and get something out of it, even if they find much of it mystifying. The people here at Cosmic Variance are trying to directly engage the public, which is great, but it seems to me they do need to seriously think about Lawrence’s question.

I know some string theorists disagree, but I think an accurate characterization of particle theory these days is that it is a victim of its own success, with no promising ideas about how to get beyond the all too successful standard model. Absent the usual pattern of important new clues coming from experiment keeping theorists honest and on the right track, a certain degree of dysfunctional behavior has emerged in the way particle theory is being pursued. Do you really want to invite the public in to see this? As an analogy: if your kitchen is a complete mess and family members are having a loud, ugly argument about what to do about it, do you really want to invite the neighbors in to show them around? One possible tactic is to keep the kitchen door closed, show off the incredibly beautiful and elegant front rooms (e.g. the standard model), and tell people that you’re working on the kitchen, things aren’t going that well, so it’s in no shape for public viewing. Another is to throw the doors open, invite them in to see the mess and hear all the arguing, hoping that they’ll appreciate your family’s openness and straight-forwardness.

I can see arguments for either of these tactics, but I think the tactic that many have actually adopted is a third and indefensible one: to keep people out of the kitchen while claiming everything is going just great in there, showing off drawings of what you wish your kitchen looked like, and giving the misleading impression that you’re making progress toward getting the kitchen to look like the drawings. The problem with this is that sooner or later your neighbors are going to find out what has been going on, and you will have lost all credibility with them.

2. While I agree with just about everything Lawrence has to say, I have a different perspective on the point he makes here and elsewhere that saying a theory must be true because it is beautiful is not distinguishable from religion. Of course this is true: he’s right that what finally makes something a tested scientific theory is to confront it with experiment. But at an earlier, more exploratory stage when you can’t yet do that, picking one idea over another because it is more beautiful is actually a very rational, scientific way to proceed. Occam’s razor is important, and one should be looking for simple, elegant, beautiful ideas in preference to complicated, ugly ones, unless experimental evidence makes the ugly ones unavoidable. The problem with string theory is that it is no longer a beautiful idea about how to unify the standard model and gravity. All constructions that even partially reproduce the standard model are hideously ugly, with no experimental evidence to back them up. What is happening these days is that an increasingly large number of string theorists, in desperate attempts to get the standard model, have ended up working with increasingly hideous constructions.

Redykeulous's photo
Fri 12/09/11 08:25 PM
It was interesting on several levels however,

The only two comments I feel even remotely informed enough to make are:

First, I wanted to cheer when Lawrence wrote:

… “the context in which I referred to ID was actually to make a point that I am beginning to think is actually relevant… namely that when physicists refer to ‘string theory’ it is in the context of ‘field theory’… namely as a technical replacement of one physical and mathematical framework for dealing with relativistic quantum mechanics with another.. but unfortunately in the context in which we complain about IDers saying Evolution is ‘just a theory’, the popular use of the term string theory is unfortunate.. because ‘string theory’ is not a theory in the context in which we claim evolution or general relativity is… i.e. something that has been tested time and again against experiment and observation.. calling it the string hypothesis would not be inappropriate in this sense..”


I graduated from High School in 1973 – when students were ‘tracked’. Those who were not motivated to rise to the challenge of taking honors classes that led college prep courses were not encouraged, and sometimes were not even offered, science classes. The classes we were required to take delved no deeper into scientific concepts beyond basic astrology or Darwinian theory.

The vast majority of us had no understanding of Science beyond the fact that mathematics played a major role and that alone was enough to inform most of us that we were not science material. Of course, back then, we still believed in the myth of meritocracy. Upon that believe we went into the grown-up world of work thinking that ingenuity and great effort would be just as rewarding without a basic college degree.

I’m an avid reader and have always tried to stay on top of scientific advances so I developed a better grasp of what the defining characteristics of science, verses any other field of study, were. Unfortunately, like so many others I could not grasp what made some ideas a theory (scientifically) while other things were not (beliefs).

I began to study science in college in 2007, (ok I’m a late bloomer), and now I do understand. Like Lawrence, I bear some animosity to those professionals in the scientific fields who apply or continue to use the word theory in conjunction with ideas that would seem to have no evidence beyond belief.

I likewise bear greater animosity toward the public education system that still allows an inferior educational program to continue because there is no reason why every student who is granted a high school diploma should not understand basic scientific principles. There is no reason why every high school graduate should not be able to discern between science and pseudo-science, it’s not that difficult and even the mathematically challenged (like me) should grasp it with ease.

Ok so I ranted a little there.blushing

Secondly but still in the same vein, it’s the use of the term theory that still causes the greatest conflict between theistic ideals & phenominal beliefs, and the scientific community. Still, there are probably many thousands of people, like me, who have a great interest in science and even without a higher education they may have something, however minor, to add when a scientist comes to an impasse.

Ingenuity and innovative thought are not dependent on education, and conversation between people caught at an impasse is still a great way to brainstorm.

That makes me believe that transparency and openness between the scientific community and the general public is a good idea.

no photo
Mon 12/12/11 01:20 PM
That makes me believe that transparency and openness between the scientific community and the general public is a good idea.
So from the Kitchen analogy, you would have us invite our guests in and explain that our kitchen is under a 40 year renovation.

Cheers!