http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPs_j1EEplI&feature=player_embedded#!
For you critical thinkers out there, thought you might enjoy this song.

Nice. Even when I'm amazingly patient, polite, and non-judgemental some people still end up not wanting to discuss their beliefs around me anymore. They are adverse to honest investigation, not matter how polite about it you are.

Thats some crazy ****

Yea title must have been a Freudian slip. Was supposed to be lone skeptic.

hahah.

I thought you were warning us the video/song might be greater duration than some prefer.

That was a very nice break - thanks. Back to the books now - skeptics choice of course (variables, validity, reliability...)

I thought the song was stupid.

Some people who pride themselves on being "skeptics" are limiting themselves.

They don't have a clue about the power of mind and the "magic" of it.

Just because you can't "prove" it or don't understand it, or you think it does not "make sense" don't feel superior.

One day you will see a UFO.

Doesnt U F O mean unidentified flying object?

I think the person who came up with that was a skeptic . . .

That is what it actually stands for.

And it should stand for that, even if the UFO looks just like some alien craft. You can not know if it is an alien craft unless you actually see the aliens and verify that they are not human.

Right . . . so whats wrong with being skeptical, and requiring a high standard of evidence for spectacular claims?

Seems like seeing a UFO wouldn't really do anything . . . I mean based on the unidentified part of that . . . You know?

For some skeptics, seeing what looks like an alien space craft could expand his thinking.

Others might just think it is a huge joke, or a secret government project, or that he was just hallucinating.

There are some skeptics who were abducted. They are not so skeptical anymore.

Sometimes direct close encounters with the unknown is what it takes to convince a skeptic.

A lot of people are limiting themselves, for a lot of different reasons.

I think you are suggesting that skepticism itself limits people. Fear limits people, cynicism limits people, rejecting ideas without any willingness to investigate the matter limits people - but none of those are intrinsic to skepticism.



Feeling superior is a matter of personal psychology - different people suffer from this arrogance for different reasons - including many 'fans of woo'.

Recognizing that one worldview is 'superior' over another in some way is a different matter.




JB! You are a skeptic!




To me, skepticism is not a position on a topic, its an approach to determining whether something is true. When you gain new evidence, it can be intelligent to change your position.

Well said!

JB, the song was supposed to be funny, was there a particular part of the song you felt was derisive of any particular belief of yours?

Aliens?

If the song was supposed to be funny I stopped listening to it too soon so that I did not hear the punchline. (Apart from it being a terrible song musically.)

Myself, I consider all possibilities.

That kind of thinking shuts the door on possibility and implies that considering (or believing) in something that is unproven is ignorant, untrue, or stupid.

It kills possibilities and stifles imagination. It kills progressive exploration of the mind into the unknown.

All creative thought begins with imagination and visualization and possibility.

There are some skeptics that insist that there are no psychics or mediums.

(And there are those who know they are wrong.)

There are skeptics who insist that aliens do not exist.

(And there are those who know they are wrong.)

I disagree, Id say it sets standards on evidence, and provides a structure for investigation.

The best inventors, scientists, and discoverers are skeptics. Imagination and possibilities are endless, however to really gain intellectual ground one must have a strong grasp of critical thinking skills.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and every single attempt to provide rigorous evidence of abilities beyond the norm have fallen short again and again.

In my own imagination I have thought of many ways a person could gain ability beyond the norm and still be a totally natural adaptation, however that is only my own imagination as it is fueled by science fiction, that however must be explored with an honest investigation that plainly lays out all possible bias and works to remove that bias as the highest priority. This means to withhold belief in the face of a lack of evidence.

Proper understanding requires testing nature against the claim. When that testing fails the truly honest must accept the results even if they remain open to future testing.

The sad reality is that there is far more to be gained from making unsubstantiated claims then the kind of honest and critical examination of the data I am referring to. For me the equally sad, and yet sometimes humorous fact, a fact the song points out, is that it is also easier to remain silent and not challenge the extraordinary claims.

JB if you think you are not biased then you have not worked hard at an honest self introspection. Everyone is biased, and understanding that accepting that and being able to learn the skills to test reality against that bias is the job of every honest intellect.

I'm not sure what 'kind of thinking' you are referring to, exactly. We all agree that we shouldn't assume that a vague shape is an alien spacecraft - you see the advantage of having more evidence before arriving at that conclusion. That 'kind of thinking' is skepticism, and it's a good thing.



There is another 'kind of thinking', different from true, rational, skepticism. I see that there are people who simply reject beliefs other than their own without investigation. We can find these people in any group, if the group gets large enough . We also find some of them calling themselves 'skeptics', and advocating the 'majority skeptical opinion' of the time and place (for example, today in the US that majority skeptic opinion is: "alien abduction stories are ********". These knee-jerk self-labelled 'skeptics' believe this basically because other (actual) skeptics believe it, rather than having better reasons of their own).

I don't deny that this 'kind of thinking' exists, and its unfortunate, but it isn't skepticism.

Your posts suggest that you consider the existence of psychics and aliens to be 'a fact', and that you therefore wish to reject the culture of skeptics who believe otherwise.

Are you open to the possibility that you might be wrong?

Very true. Arriving at a particular conclusion regarding the existence of psychics or aliens doesn't stifle the imagination.

massagetrade



Whether it is a "fact" or not, is unknown. You don't know if it is or isn't a fact, and neither do I.

Most would say that these things have not been proven according to standard scientific method and therefore it cannot be called "fact."

They are correct in the scientific arena.

But what one decides to call a "fact" and an actual fact are not always the same thing.



Wrong about what?

That I believe there are persons who are psychics?

I can't really be "wrong" about what I believe. The reasons I believe it are not scientific but they have to do with the preponderance of evidence in my personal experience and life. Beliefs can change. Facts don't change.

Yes I can be "wrong" about what I call a "fact." I can only change that belief when I find evidence of another and better (more believable) explanation for my personal experience and observations.

Also if I were to get into a formal debate about it, I would insist on a detailed definition of what the scientific community considers the term "psychic" to mean.

I don't call my beliefs "facts" to others although I may consider them to be facts myself. About that I could be wrong.

You may call that bias, but it is not really. If it is then everyone is bias according to the information and experience that they have.

I don't believe something because I want to believe it. I believe it from personal experience and evidence.

A fact is a fact. What people believe to be a fact and what they call a fact can change. Perceptions change. Facts don't.

According to who?



When did I ever say I was not biased?

Everyone is biased.

I still await alternate believable scientific explanations for the experience and evidence I have.

Until then, I will not join the crowd that insists that psychics and aliens do not exist.

My current position is that they probably do.

massagetrade


The culture I reject are the persons you describe below who simply reject things (because they don't want to believe it) and without investigating or even considering it to be anything but some elaborate lie.

And people who insist that there are no psychics or mediums or spirits or any such thing as paranormal happenings etc.

I stand on ground just as solid saying that there are aliens and psychics as the person who insists that there are no such thing.

But holding a personal belief that aliens and psychics exist or probably exist, or possibly exist is my personal business. Meanwhile I am not out to prove that it is 'fact' to a bunch of bias skeptics who are determined they are right. Waste of energy. I seek only valid new information that is a reasonable and convincing explanation for what I have personally seen and experienced.

All they can actually say to me is that they have seen no evidence of these things.