Somebody who can read and write above a third-grade level, and who can discuss something other than booze, babies, American Idol, and shoes.

I've seen that one quite a bit, too....!

And I don't want to give the wrong impression -- I'm not saying ALL women are like that. You know how much I despise blanket statements.

I'm just saying all women within a 500-mile radius of me. It's important to try to be realistic about these things.

Men are always trying to control me and make me into something I am not but they just aren't as subtle about it like women.

You guys make this complex....

Women want the same thing as men. Monkey love that leaves you smiling later when no one is around.

The touch and feel of a lover. Time spent with the mind and soul of a lover.

When control issues become the problem.....take control. It is pretty doable.

You're one of the few here who really understands my position on this subject. I appreciate that!

And I know there are controlling men out there. I've known them, I've worked with them, I've played hockey with them, and I've often asked myself why their wives/girlfriends/etc. stayed with someone like that. And some of them stayed for years. Some of them may still be with those guys, I don't know.

But I also know there are men who aren't interested in being controlling. Well, at least one. I can only say that because I know I'm not that way. I don't have the energy or the time or the need to control anybody. I doubt if I'm the only one like this, but I can't say for sure.

But I have no such inside knowledge about women -- my own personal history is littered (I mean that in every possible sense) with women who claimed to be one way, and turned out to be the opposite. I think they intend to be subtle, but subtlety is wasted once you've seen the same tactic 94 times.

It is doable. I end the relationship. That's the only workable option when someone wants you to be the opposite of who you really are.

All I'm saying is it would be nice to find myself in a situation where that didn't become necessary.

IDK

anyone I would want to consider a relationship with already IS someone who I like as they are - from there it is a matter deciding if u want the same things

Just make sure you give the ladies a fair shot before you kick em to the curb. The strongest bonds are built through adversities.

...and none of us get thier dream.....we accidentally figure out that life has better things to offer us than what we think we want.

well I don't want anyone to try to change me either. I think most of us want to be accepted for who we are

Definitely. So I have to wonder why it's impossible to find anyone who can grasp this concept....??

I don't think its a hard concept to grasp. I think most people are hardwired in thinking that changing someone to fit in with them is the right direction to go. People don't think outside the box. Lex, I can't tell you how many times I hear women talk about how they are going to change the men in thier life; its as though they are brainwashed to think that is the way to have a good relationship. Even my best friend (male) married for 25 years says I have to train a man. WTF??? If I were to think that way; may as well get a dog. I am not treating a man like a dog even if society thinks that is the right thing to do.

The thing that bugs me is that I've had a lot of my exes tell me, after the fact, that "You'd be so much happier if you'd just be like everybody else." How presumptuous can a person get?! I'm sorry, that's not a decision that they get to make!

Yes, if I wanted to be like everybody else, it would be a fairly simple matter to latch on to the next brain-dead zombie who sends me a proposition and let myself be turned into a cardboard cutout of Ward Cleaver. Strangely enough, that idea just doesn't hold any appeal for me.

Definitely. So I have to wonder why it's impossible to find anyone who can grasp this concept....??

IDK - I get it - so does navygirl so there are others....

I think we can change a little for a partner but those have to be internal choices we make lest we feel manipulated

I think people grasp the concept often times, but experience teaches how the concept really works, and experience teaches us the communication skills to talk about what it is we are afraid of - what fear is it that makes us want a partner to change & why are we afraid of change? (because I think negative behaviors are often based in some kind of fear)defining the "fear" and putting it in the open often makes it go away...

and talk openly about the warning signs - yes I might make some changes but I want to choose those

and tell your partner - if I sense u trying to change me we will have to talk about that and resolve that because I am not comfortable with that

given this, it's also important to define TOGETHER what "changing me" means

if a man wants me to use a different laundry detergent or pick up the dry cleaning - I really wouldn't care, but if he wants me to change my hair color, nags about my workout program or my hobbies - well we'll have problems

essentially if u both are on the same page as far as not wanting to be manipulated/changed unwillingly, then (I know this sounds cliche-ish) it is the level and quality of communication with which these paramenters are discussed between you that will make it or break it - I would guess

this is just my thought - if I had the perfect solution I wouldn't be single - but based on a long marraige where I definitely made some mistakes (and so did he) - these are my thoughts

IDK - I get it - so does navygirl so there are others....

I think we can change a little for a partner but those have to be internal choices we make lest we feel manipulated

I think people grasp the concept often times, but experience teaches how the concept really works, and experience teaches us the communication skills to talk about what it is we are afraid of - what fear is it that makes us want a partner to change & why are we afraid of change? (because I think negative behaviors are often based in some kind of fear)defining the "fear" and putting it in the open often makes it go away...

and talk openly about the warning signs - yes I might make some changes but I want to choose those

and tell your partner - if I sense u trying to change me we will have to talk about that and resolve that because I am not comfortable with that

given this, it's also important to define TOGETHER what "changing me" means

if a man wants me to use a different laundry detergent or pick up the dry cleaning - I really wouldn't care, but if he wants me to change my hair color, nags about my workout program or my hobbies - well we'll have problems

essentially if u both are on the same page as far as not wanting to be manipulated/changed unwillingly, then (I know this sounds cliche-ish) it is the level and quality of communication with which these paramenters are discussed between you that will make it or break it - I would guess

this is just my thought - if I had the perfect solution I wouldn't be single - but based on a long marraige where I definitely made some mistakes (and so did he) - these are my thoughts

And this all makes sense, too. I really believe it's essential to let it be known, right up front, what's negotiable and what's not. I mean, the idea is not to have any unpleasant "surprises" down the road -- to avoid the "Oh, I didn't realize it was THAT important" conversations.

On a website like this one, I'll use my profile and forum posts to try to make it very clear what I'm looking for and what I'm NOT looking for. Why waste people's time, why have them waste mine?

And, sure, there are going to be adjustments and compromises. That's in the nature of an evolving relationship. But the absolute deal-breakers need to be out in the open before anything ever gets that far.

And this is where I'm having the problem. My deal-breakers are VERY much out in the open. They have been since I was about 22. But people lie; they say, "Oh, I agree with you," when they really don't. They get "in" and try to bring down the system from the inside, so to speak.

And frankly, I'm offended that they have so little respect for my own decisions about my own life that they think they can slip in and trick me into changing my mind. I'm up front, why can't they be? If you want the cardboard cutout, there are millions of them out there. Go get one. It shouldn't be too difficult.

And it wouldn't be so annoying if it was just the occasional gf who pulled this stunt. But it's ALL of them (with the one exception) who tried this little strategy. And I'm fed up with people trying to change me. I don't want to end up like my father did, and I certainly don't want to be anybody else's father, either. I don't have any interest in, nor aptitude for, that sort of thing. So the ones who are looking for raw, malleable daddy material need to look elsewhere and stop trying to deceive me into that role.