Topic: Why Ron Paul Will NEVER Be President!
Lpdon's photo
Tue 11/08/11 11:10 PM
Part of it is his message and ideas, part of the problem is his supporters!

I want to start by saying I have listened to Ron Paul many times and have considered his views. I have no personal ax to grind at all. The only reason I wrote this is because I am involved politically and have had to listen to many of his followers complain about him not being nominated for president.The follow may be hard to read and harder to except. Please understand that it is meant to be helpful.


Let's first start with the typical Ron Paul supporter. They tend to make absurd comments like "Ron Paul is the only person in America that understands the Federal Reserve", "He is the only person that understands US Constitutional Law" He is the only one in American that is able to write a financial policy for this country" and my favorite, "He is the only person who can lead our country out of this current mess".

Folks, people do not listen to this kind of radical talk and absolutism! It is down right scary to anyone who knows world history. It never works well. What is worse is that is the fact that many will lie for Mr. Paul. When good people who don't normally lie, start doing it for someone else, there is something wrong. What are they lying about? For starters, how well Ron Paul is doing. In an email/Facebook poll, one of his supporters said this-" I am a big fan of Ron Paul. If the media would start reporting correctly that he is winning almost all of the straw polls and is at worst, 3rd place in the popular polls, we might have a chance of him winning." That is a very untrue statement and was made this week in the middle of October! Ladies and gentlemen, The top 3 spots in the popular polls are taken by Herman Cain, Mitt Romney, and Rick Perry!

At worst Ron is third in the polls? No! At best he is fourth in the polls! Their statements are not factual! His followers have been purposely misleading people for years, and that turns the voters off immediately. As far as the straw polls go, Ron Paul won a California straw poll, a month ago, and 2 weeks ago he won a values straw poll. How in the world is that almost all of the straw polls? Were the Ron Paul fans asleep when he came no where near winning Michigan, South Carolina, or Florida and lost Iowa? He isn't even winning the Tea Party Straw Polls! That type of blind worship of another, that causes one to lie or become delusional, is not healthy.

And now, just this week, the semi-famous singer song, Arlo Guthrie endorsed Ron Paul. First of all, who cares what singer endorses who? I don't! Christie endorsing Romney, and Reagan's Cabinet Members, Koop and Laffer endorsing Cain means something, but a singer? Besides here is Guthry's statement " Ron Paul is the only candidate in this race that would have signed the U.S. Constitution if they were all alive back then"! The fact that Paul didn't stop that tells me that he is not in this to win this! No one should be making such crazy and true statements.

His supporters also say that Ron Paul is the first Republican Congressman that supported Ronald Reagan. Not only is that a lie, but Ron Paul wrote, then President Reagan, and told him he was going to quit the Republican party because of Reagan and his left wing policies, and went on to call Ronald a liberal! Statements like that make him look ridiculous and unnecessarily cantankerous. Many of his supporters also are known for pointing their finger at you and telling you to read the constitution. I have read it and have seen it in D.C., and no I don't like it when someone I don't know pokes me in the chest and tells me I should "shut up" until I read it! No one does. Note to Ron Paul supporters...you are not winning people over! That behavior never will.

Ron's message- I recently got an email from Ron Paul stating" I have delivered over 4,000 babies and am the only Republican running for President that is pro-life" What? Herman Cain, Michele Bachman, And Rick Santorum have never waffled on that issue... Ever! That is crazy! Besides, I do not like his soft stances on foreign affairs. Where do I agree with him? I agree with auditing the Federal Reserve and eliminating it, as well as shrinking the size of government. What I do not like is that he constantly swats at people rather than laying his plans out. If he hates fellow Republicans the way he seems to, why doesn't he quit the party? Simple, he is a career politician that has enjoyed a government pay check for over 30 years, and would lose it if he ever left the GOP to become a registered Libertarian. Do not get me wrong, he earns that check and is valuable in Congress. I just do not see him becoming President.

What do I think of Rand Paul, Ron's son? I see him as a common sense, no nonsense Senator who will make to The White House someday. Rand took on the status quo in an effective and memorable way, to win a U.S. Senate seat.

To wrap this up, we must remain teachable, but able to think for ourselves. I favor someone in the 2012 race, but he does not think or speak for me. Do your homework, and please pray for our nation!

http://mikesyrsutton.hubpages.com/hub/Why-Ron-Paul-will-never-go-any-further-than-US-Congress

:thumbsup: Well said! :thumbsup:

Jenknee's photo
Tue 11/08/11 11:24 PM
Ron Paul is my choice for President. I will vote for him regardless of what political party he runs under. It is early in the game so we will have to see who his real competition will be. I would like Jesse Ventura to be his running mate.

msharmony's photo
Tue 11/08/11 11:32 PM
Never say Never, public opinion is fickle,,

alot can change in a month, let alone a year

Conrad_73's photo
Tue 11/08/11 11:59 PM

Ron Paul is my choice for President. I will vote for him regardless of what political party he runs under. It is early in the game so we will have to see who his real competition will be. I would like Jesse Ventura to be his running mate.
you'd really become the Laughingstock of the World then!
Jessie The Body!laugh

Jenknee's photo
Wed 11/09/11 01:19 AM


Ron Paul is my choice for President. I will vote for him regardless of what political party he runs under. It is early in the game so we will have to see who his real competition will be. I would like Jesse Ventura to be his running mate.
you'd really become the Laughingstock of the World then!
Jessie The Body!laugh



I remember laughing at Palin!

Sojourning_Soul's photo
Wed 11/09/11 02:24 AM
Edited by Sojourning_Soul on Wed 11/09/11 02:28 AM


Ron Paul is my choice for President. I will vote for him regardless of what political party he runs under. It is early in the game so we will have to see who his real competition will be. I would like Jesse Ventura to be his running mate.
you'd really become the Laughingstock of the World then!
Jessie The Body!laugh


Jessie Ventura may be odd in his character and mannerisms, but he is a TRUE Anerican and former SEAL... a little hard to laugh at!

As Gov of his state he also did more to bring honest change and benefits for the people than any before him. The people loved him, the power brokers didn't!

A little quirky Yes! But I would stand with Gov V any day, and I would trust him with my back. Can't say that of too many people!

As for Palin..... it's hard NOT to laugh!

Sojourning_Soul's photo
Wed 11/09/11 02:33 AM
Edited by Sojourning_Soul on Wed 11/09/11 02:57 AM

Part of it is his message and ideas, part of the problem is his supporters!

I want to start by saying I have listened to Ron Paul many times and have considered his views. I have no personal ax to grind at all. The only reason I wrote this is because I am involved politically and have had to listen to many of his followers complain about him not being nominated for president.The follow may be hard to read and harder to except. Please understand that it is meant to be helpful.


Let's first start with the typical Ron Paul supporter. They tend to make absurd comments like "Ron Paul is the only person in America that understands the Federal Reserve", "He is the only person that understands US Constitutional Law" He is the only one in American that is able to write a financial policy for this country" and my favorite, "He is the only person who can lead our country out of this current mess".

Folks, people do not listen to this kind of radical talk and absolutism! It is down right scary to anyone who knows world history. It never works well. What is worse is that is the fact that many will lie for Mr. Paul. When good people who don't normally lie, start doing it for someone else, there is something wrong. What are they lying about? For starters, how well Ron Paul is doing. In an email/Facebook poll, one of his supporters said this-" I am a big fan of Ron Paul. If the media would start reporting correctly that he is winning almost all of the straw polls and is at worst, 3rd place in the popular polls, we might have a chance of him winning." That is a very untrue statement and was made this week in the middle of October! Ladies and gentlemen, The top 3 spots in the popular polls are taken by Herman Cain, Mitt Romney, and Rick Perry!

At worst Ron is third in the polls? No! At best he is fourth in the polls! Their statements are not factual! His followers have been purposely misleading people for years, and that turns the voters off immediately. As far as the straw polls go, Ron Paul won a California straw poll, a month ago, and 2 weeks ago he won a values straw poll. How in the world is that almost all of the straw polls? Were the Ron Paul fans asleep when he came no where near winning Michigan, South Carolina, or Florida and lost Iowa? He isn't even winning the Tea Party Straw Polls! That type of blind worship of another, that causes one to lie or become delusional, is not healthy.

And now, just this week, the semi-famous singer song, Arlo Guthrie endorsed Ron Paul. First of all, who cares what singer endorses who? I don't! Christie endorsing Romney, and Reagan's Cabinet Members, Koop and Laffer endorsing Cain means something, but a singer? Besides here is Guthry's statement " Ron Paul is the only candidate in this race that would have signed the U.S. Constitution if they were all alive back then"! The fact that Paul didn't stop that tells me that he is not in this to win this! No one should be making such crazy and true statements.

His supporters also say that Ron Paul is the first Republican Congressman that supported Ronald Reagan. Not only is that a lie, but Ron Paul wrote, then President Reagan, and told him he was going to quit the Republican party because of Reagan and his left wing policies, and went on to call Ronald a liberal! Statements like that make him look ridiculous and unnecessarily cantankerous. Many of his supporters also are known for pointing their finger at you and telling you to read the constitution. I have read it and have seen it in D.C., and no I don't like it when someone I don't know pokes me in the chest and tells me I should "shut up" until I read it! No one does. Note to Ron Paul supporters...you are not winning people over! That behavior never will.

Ron's message- I recently got an email from Ron Paul stating" I have delivered over 4,000 babies and am the only Republican running for President that is pro-life" What? Herman Cain, Michele Bachman, And Rick Santorum have never waffled on that issue... Ever! That is crazy! Besides, I do not like his soft stances on foreign affairs. Where do I agree with him? I agree with auditing the Federal Reserve and eliminating it, as well as shrinking the size of government. What I do not like is that he constantly swats at people rather than laying his plans out. If he hates fellow Republicans the way he seems to, why doesn't he quit the party? Simple, he is a career politician that has enjoyed a government pay check for over 30 years, and would lose it if he ever left the GOP to become a registered Libertarian. Do not get me wrong, he earns that check and is valuable in Congress. I just do not see him becoming President.

What do I think of Rand Paul, Ron's son? I see him as a common sense, no nonsense Senator who will make to The White House someday. Rand took on the status quo in an effective and memorable way, to win a U.S. Senate seat.

To wrap this up, we must remain teachable, but able to think for ourselves. I favor someone in the 2012 race, but he does not think or speak for me. Do your homework, and please pray for our nation!

http://mikesyrsutton.hubpages.com/hub/Why-Ron-Paul-will-never-go-any-further-than-US-Congress

:thumbsup: Well said! :thumbsup:


Hard to agree with this since most of the statements against RP have been shown to be "taken out of context" and not the "whole" statemebnt or truth (as in the Reagan statement)!

Reagan called RP a "True American" and went on to say "we need more like him!". RP made statements over policies Reagan adopted later in his Presidency that RP didn't agree with. Reagan commended him for his criticism and patriotism!

As for "who's misleading who", how's what RP has predicted for 40 years and is now KNOWN to be, or has become, ABSOLUTELY true, working for ya? As for his "followers" misleading anyone.... They are citizens with a choice! Hard to follow what you don't believe in, unless you're a brainless, spineless, loser with no will of your own, which I guess you think noted economists, Presidents, his fellow members of Congress and many of our Nation are!

I pity you your lack of ambition to know a truth and lead, rather than remain a follower yourself! Research your "so called" facts!

They call it "propoganda".... look it up and educate yourself!

Ruth34611's photo
Wed 11/09/11 06:44 AM
It's too early to say that someone is NEVER going to make it. Personally, I like Ron Paul and if I was voting today, he'd be my choice.

Conrad_73's photo
Wed 11/09/11 06:48 AM



Ron Paul is my choice for President. I will vote for him regardless of what political party he runs under. It is early in the game so we will have to see who his real competition will be. I would like Jesse Ventura to be his running mate.
you'd really become the Laughingstock of the World then!
Jessie The Body!laugh


Jessie Ventura may be odd in his character and mannerisms, but he is a TRUE Anerican and former SEAL... a little hard to laugh at!

As Gov of his state he also did more to bring honest change and benefits for the people than any before him. The people loved him, the power brokers didn't!

A little quirky Yes! But I would stand with Gov V any day, and I would trust him with my back. Can't say that of too many people!

As for Palin..... it's hard NOT to laugh!
Too sad the Steroids did a Job on Jesse!

Conrad_73's photo
Wed 11/09/11 06:53 AM




Ron Paul is my choice for President. I will vote for him regardless of what political party he runs under. It is early in the game so we will have to see who his real competition will be. I would like Jesse Ventura to be his running mate.
you'd really become the Laughingstock of the World then!
Jessie The Body!laugh


Jessie Ventura may be odd in his character and mannerisms, but he is a TRUE Anerican and former SEAL... a little hard to laugh at!

As Gov of his state he also did more to bring honest change and benefits for the people than any before him. The people loved him, the power brokers didn't!

A little quirky Yes! But I would stand with Gov V any day, and I would trust him with my back. Can't say that of too many people!

As for Palin..... it's hard NOT to laugh!
Too sad the Steroids did a Job on Jesse!
actually I like the Guy,and it is really saddening how far out he's become!

Sojourning_Soul's photo
Wed 11/09/11 07:43 AM





Ron Paul is my choice for President. I will vote for him regardless of what political party he runs under. It is early in the game so we will have to see who his real competition will be. I would like Jesse Ventura to be his running mate.
you'd really become the Laughingstock of the World then!
Jessie The Body!laugh


Jessie Ventura may be odd in his character and mannerisms, but he is a TRUE Anerican and former SEAL... a little hard to laugh at!

As Gov of his state he also did more to bring honest change and benefits for the people than any before him. The people loved him, the power brokers didn't!

A little quirky Yes! But I would stand with Gov V any day, and I would trust him with my back. Can't say that of too many people!

As for Palin..... it's hard NOT to laugh!
Too sad the Steroids did a Job on Jesse!
actually I like the Guy,and it is really saddening how far out he's become!


His points are valid, his heart and conscience are in the right place, but most will ALWAYS see him as "Jessie the Body", a wrestler, not a statesman, a patriot, a former Governer or Navy Seal. You will not hear him make excuses for his choices! He's a Gentle Giant with the ability to deal with adversity, but whether it's drugs (steroids) or too many blows to the head in his wrestling career, aside from a few nervous disorders, and his obvious eccentric character traits, he's still as admirable as he ever was.

You have to respect him, his career, whether you like him or not. drinker


Lpdon's photo
Wed 11/09/11 08:57 AM



Ron Paul is my choice for President. I will vote for him regardless of what political party he runs under. It is early in the game so we will have to see who his real competition will be. I would like Jesse Ventura to be his running mate.
you'd really become the Laughingstock of the World then!
Jessie The Body!laugh


Jessie Ventura may be odd in his character and mannerisms, but he is a TRUE Anerican and former SEAL... a little hard to laugh at!

As Gov of his state he also did more to bring honest change and benefits for the people than any before him. The people loved him, the power brokers didn't!

A little quirky Yes! But I would stand with Gov V any day, and I would trust him with my back. Can't say that of too many people!

As for Palin..... it's hard NOT to laugh!


ACTUALLY, he is not a Seal. He was demolition BEFORE they merged with the Seal. It has been proven he completely exxagerated his past.

Lpdon's photo
Wed 11/09/11 09:00 AM






Ron Paul is my choice for President. I will vote for him regardless of what political party he runs under. It is early in the game so we will have to see who his real competition will be. I would like Jesse Ventura to be his running mate.
you'd really become the Laughingstock of the World then!
Jessie The Body!laugh


Jessie Ventura may be odd in his character and mannerisms, but he is a TRUE Anerican and former SEAL... a little hard to laugh at!

As Gov of his state he also did more to bring honest change and benefits for the people than any before him. The people loved him, the power brokers didn't!

A little quirky Yes! But I would stand with Gov V any day, and I would trust him with my back. Can't say that of too many people!

As for Palin..... it's hard NOT to laugh!
Too sad the Steroids did a Job on Jesse!
actually I like the Guy,and it is really saddening how far out he's become!


His points are valid, his heart and conscience are in the right place, but most will ALWAYS see him as "Jessie the Body", a wrestler, not a statesman, a patriot, a former Governer or Navy Seal. You will not hear him make excuses for his choices! He's a Gentle Giant with the ability to deal with adversity, but whether it's drugs (steroids) or too many blows to the head in his wrestling career, aside from a few nervous disorders, and his obvious eccentric character traits, he's still as admirable as he ever was.

You have to respect him, his career, whether you like him or not. drinker




I don't respect ANYONE who lies about military service.

Lpdon's photo
Wed 11/09/11 09:05 AM
From September 11, 1969, to September 10, 1975, during the Vietnam War era, Ventura served in the United States Navy. Ventura graduated with BUD/S class 58 in December 1970 and was part of Underwater Demolition Team 12 (UDT). The UDTs were merged with the US Navy SEALs in 1983, 8 years after Ventura had left the Navy.

Bill Salisbury, an attorney in San Diego and a former Navy SEAL officer, accused Ventura of "pretending" to be a SEAL and wrote that Ventura would be blurring an important distinction by claiming to be a SEAL when he was actually a frogman with the UDT. Compared to SEAL Teams, UDTs saw less combat and took fewer casualties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Ventura#Steroid_use

Oh yea, not to mention he was an ACTIVE member in an OUTLAW motorcycle club.

Sojourning_Soul's photo
Wed 11/09/11 10:47 AM
Edited by Sojourning_Soul on Wed 11/09/11 10:55 AM

From September 11, 1969, to September 10, 1975, during the Vietnam War era, Ventura served in the United States Navy. Ventura graduated with BUD/S class 58 in December 1970 and was part of Underwater Demolition Team 12 (UDT). The UDTs were merged with the US Navy SEALs in 1983, 8 years after Ventura had left the Navy.

Bill Salisbury, an attorney in San Diego and a former Navy SEAL officer, accused Ventura of "pretending" to be a SEAL and wrote that Ventura would be blurring an important distinction by claiming to be a SEAL when he was actually a frogman with the UDT. Compared to SEAL Teams, UDTs saw less combat and took fewer casualties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Ventura#Steroid_use

Oh yea, not to mention he was an ACTIVE member in an OUTLAW motorcycle club.


In the SEALs, if you wish to "quit" the training you ring the "Moys Bell"! It was donated by Mst Chief Terry Moys, 1st Class Seal Instructor, to the new site adopted for SEAL training.

“We were the first class to graduate from here,” he said. “We thought it was appropriate to present the new command with a new bell for the quarterdeck.”

Moy was a SEAL instructor!

Then there is this:

http://blog.usnavyseals.com/2009/09/jesse-ventura-a-navy-seal-a-governor-and-much-more.html

Most people know Jesse Ventura as a pro-wrestler or as the Governor of Minnesota from 1999 – 2003. However, prior to his high profile public image Jesse Ventura also served as an United States Navy SEAL. In fact, he has been quoted as saying that his body building and physical appearance are direct results of his discipline and training which he gained while serving as a Navy SEAL.

Between September of 1969 and 1975, Jesse Ventura served in the Vietnam War. Upon returning home he was awarded with the Vietnam Service medal and the National Defense Service Medal

Jesse Ventura composed an autobiography wherein he revealed a great deal about his time spent in the Navy SEALs. He speaks frankly about going through BUD/S Training and how hard the program was for him to endure. Jesse Ventura further showed his respect to the Navy SEALs when he asked his SEAL Chief Terry Moy to be with him when he was officially sworn in as governor of Minnesota. Terry agreed and stood by his side.

Throughout his life Jesse Ventura has been blessed with many accomplishments. He has held a place in office, has had an excellent wrestling career, and has accomplished more than most men can ever imagine. However, at the top of this all, Jesse Ventura has held a great respect and admiration for the lessons he learned and the training he endured while serving as a United States Navy SEAL.

THIS sounds MUCH more credible than your "he said, she said" ASSUMPTION that he wasn't! laugh

msharmony's photo
Wed 11/09/11 10:57 AM

From September 11, 1969, to September 10, 1975, during the Vietnam War era, Ventura served in the United States Navy. Ventura graduated with BUD/S class 58 in December 1970 and was part of Underwater Demolition Team 12 (UDT). The UDTs were merged with the US Navy SEALs in 1983, 8 years after Ventura had left the Navy.

Bill Salisbury, an attorney in San Diego and a former Navy SEAL officer, accused Ventura of "pretending" to be a SEAL and wrote that Ventura would be blurring an important distinction by claiming to be a SEAL when he was actually a frogman with the UDT. Compared to SEAL Teams, UDTs saw less combat and took fewer casualties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Ventura#Steroid_use

Oh yea, not to mention he was an ACTIVE member in an OUTLAW motorcycle club.



also from that webpage

"Today we refer to all of us as SEALs; that's all it is," and described the accusations of lying about being a SEAL as "[m]uch ado about nothing."

msharmony's photo
Wed 11/09/11 11:02 AM


From September 11, 1969, to September 10, 1975, during the Vietnam War era, Ventura served in the United States Navy. Ventura graduated with BUD/S class 58 in December 1970 and was part of Underwater Demolition Team 12 (UDT). The UDTs were merged with the US Navy SEALs in 1983, 8 years after Ventura had left the Navy.

Bill Salisbury, an attorney in San Diego and a former Navy SEAL officer, accused Ventura of "pretending" to be a SEAL and wrote that Ventura would be blurring an important distinction by claiming to be a SEAL when he was actually a frogman with the UDT. Compared to SEAL Teams, UDTs saw less combat and took fewer casualties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Ventura#Steroid_use

Oh yea, not to mention he was an ACTIVE member in an OUTLAW motorcycle club.


In the SEALs, if you wish to "quit" the training you ring the "Moys Bell"! It was donated by Mst Chief Terry Moys, 1st Class Seal Instructor, to the new site adopted for SEAL training.

“We were the first class to graduate from here,” he said. “We thought it was appropriate to present the new command with a new bell for the quarterdeck.”

Moy was a SEAL instructor!

Then there is this:

http://blog.usnavyseals.com/2009/09/jesse-ventura-a-navy-seal-a-governor-and-much-more.html

Most people know Jesse Ventura as a pro-wrestler or as the Governor of Minnesota from 1999 – 2003. However, prior to his high profile public image Jesse Ventura also served as an United States Navy SEAL. In fact, he has been quoted as saying that his body building and physical appearance are direct results of his discipline and training which he gained while serving as a Navy SEAL.

Between September of 1969 and 1975, Jesse Ventura served in the Vietnam War. Upon returning home he was awarded with the Vietnam Service medal and the National Defense Service Medal

Jesse Ventura composed an autobiography wherein he revealed a great deal about his time spent in the Navy SEALs. He speaks frankly about going through BUD/S Training and how hard the program was for him to endure. Jesse Ventura further showed his respect to the Navy SEALs when he asked his SEAL Chief Terry Moy to be with him when he was officially sworn in as governor of Minnesota. Terry agreed and stood by his side.

Throughout his life Jesse Ventura has been blessed with many accomplishments. He has held a place in office, has had an excellent wrestling career, and has accomplished more than most men can ever imagine. However, at the top of this all, Jesse Ventura has held a great respect and admiration for the lessons he learned and the training he endured while serving as a United States Navy SEAL.

THIS sounds MUCH more credible than your "he said, she said" ASSUMPTION that he wasn't! laugh


thats how people can mince words and make alot out of nothing, being in service during and actually 'fighting' in,, are not the same thing

Not that I care, educational assistants sometimes refer to themself as teachers, PA's are often referred to as doctor

its just semantics, but I respect those who put in the work in ALL OF THE ABOVE MENTIONED career fields


Sojourning_Soul's photo
Wed 11/09/11 11:30 AM


From September 11, 1969, to September 10, 1975, during the Vietnam War era, Ventura served in the United States Navy. Ventura graduated with BUD/S class 58 in December 1970 and was part of Underwater Demolition Team 12 (UDT). The UDTs were merged with the US Navy SEALs in 1983, 8 years after Ventura had left the Navy.

Bill Salisbury, an attorney in San Diego and a former Navy SEAL officer, accused Ventura of "pretending" to be a SEAL and wrote that Ventura would be blurring an important distinction by claiming to be a SEAL when he was actually a frogman with the UDT. Compared to SEAL Teams, UDTs saw less combat and took fewer casualties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Ventura#Steroid_use

Oh yea, not to mention he was an ACTIVE member in an OUTLAW motorcycle club.


also from that webpage

"Today we refer to all of us as SEALs; that's all it is," and described the accusations of lying about being a SEAL as "[m]uch ado about nothing."


Thanks M, I was just going to post that myself. The UDTs became the SEALs in 1983, AFTER Gov V left the service. But if Terry Moy says he's a SEAL, and doesn't question the distinction, who are we to argue?

As far as being an "outlaw biker", yep, 3rd in command of the "Mongols", the biggest rivals of the Hells Angels today.

He quit the club without any criminal charges pending, and before they became what they are today. Sounds like a man with priorities to me!

Being a Nam Vet myself, I respect a man who was there and returned. I honor, as we ALL should on Nov 11th (Veterans Day), those who are MIA and the fallen in the wars of our Nation, regardless of the reasons for them.

To ALL my Brothers and Sisters In Arms, I thank you for your courage and service! drinker