Do people of faith feel this is a bad thing or good thing?

not a person of faith but i don't see so much a rise in atheism as i see a rise of secularism in general. 'strong' atheism, a BELIEF that there is no god makes no more sense than a BELIEF that god exists. i think that more and more folks are turning towards scientific explanations of creation, evolution, etc., more so than simply rejecting religion. and of course our governemnt separates itself from religion more and more with each challenge in the courts in general.

I should have been more specific in my inquiry. In the United States, the rise of atheism is happening, i believe there was data showing this in a certain year span. Although this might be anecdotal, I've read various stories of people deconverting after going to college and studying their religion and others. So, are you suggesting that there's a steady state for atheism and people are more so becoming spiritual with a secular adherence?

no, i don't know that atheism is in a steady state. i've not seen the data that you refer to. i'm saying that even in america there is not so much a rise in atheism as there is a rise in secularism. whether or not people are becoming more spiritual without religion i've not a clue but i see secularism as free thinking involving no gods, the afterlife or any other supernatural phenomena such as spirits or souls.

You question seem a bit loaded.

You ask, "Do people of faith,..."

Well, faith in what? If they have faith in a particular religion then obviously they are going to see it as a bad thing that people are increasingly rejecting their religion and supposedly their "god".

I'm personally all for the complete rejection of the Abrahamic religious as being obviously nothing more than man-made myths. I personally feel that those religious doctrines have been the source of more negativity than anything positive. Even well-meaning people who believe that they are using those doctrine for "good intentions" still contribute to many negative ideals, IMHO.

I would sincerely like to see the Abrahamic "scriptures" retired as mythology right alongside all the other mythologies of that period of history and geographical region.

As for pure "atheism" (an actual believe that there can be no spiritual essence to reality), I personally feel that this goes overboard in the opposite direction. Especially when it gets to the point of belittling or making fun of anyone who believes in spiritual concepts. At that point atheism actually become anti-spirituality. And in that sense it can be just as negative as religions that renounce people for not believing in spiritual ideals. Hardcore atheism becomes the opposite bigotry renouncing everyone who does believe in spiritual concepts as being of questionable intelligence, etc.

So a move toward strict atheism can be just as bad as a move toward strict theism based on dogma.

I'm a proponent of moving toward agnosticism the simple confess that we can't know with any degree of certainty whether there is a spiritual essence to reality or not.

This would allow everyone to get along.

Spiritualists could be spiritual in their own way without being scoffed at for believing in crazy or stupid things. Yet at the same time they would need to confess to everyone that they are indeed ultimately agnostic (cannot know for sure, but merely having faith in something).

In this way, people could not legitimately run around proclaiming what some "god" supposedly expects from people. Because at this point faith would be fully recognized as faith and 'dogma' would no longer have any value.

I personally feel that it's sad that humans seem to always feel a need to "take sides". Either this is true, or that is false, and that's that!

They seem to have extreme problems with finding the middle path to where they can just allow everyone to be who they are without passing judgments on their choices.

I think it's good that everyone can believe how they choose to believe.

Atheism is just a way of sticking your head in the sand and ignoring
the fundamental questions about our origin and the what created
nature...

There is no way to prove there is no God. So the correct approach
if you do not know is to be Agnostic.

Of course since I have a pantheistic view the proof of God's
existence is trivial and also monotheistic. I love it.

or choose to believe nothing whatsoever.

Exactly. The idea of people commenting or debating how others choose to believe (unless those peoples beliefs are a direct cause of harm to others)...that just makes me as uneasy as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

maybe this 'rise in atheism'
is the falling away the christian
bible speaks of, therefore it is prophecy, no?

gods will

There have been quite a few studies which seem to indicate that higher education changes individual views, often by making one question or become more skeptical and discerning.

Statistically, as far as actual movement between belief systems or non-belief, in the U.S., there seems to be a greater number of proclaimed atheists than ever before, but it's a very tiny percentage.

In recent years the largest growing religion has been Muslim. It seems to have grown in a similar proportion to the deline in other monotheistic religions in that same time frame.

I think all the internal movement between monotheistic religions indicates a strong dissatisfaction with the current belief systems.

It might be likely that we will see a decline in monotheism and increases in other theistic beliefs and agnosticism. From there I think atheism will increase as it becomes a more acceptable option.

Of course if Yellowstone blows - all bets are off and if humans survive there will likely be a resurgence of all kinds of mystical beliefs.

its kind of like asking if an increase in interracial marriage is a good or bad thing


basically, whatever other people do, even whatever I do, will not erase what my history is,, so I feel fairly neutral about it


I likewise think there are varying degress of 'atheism'(refusal to believe),, most which are closer to agnosticism(lack of evidence to convince)



I feel bad for those who REFUSE to believe, but I am totally understandable about those who have questions and (for lack of a better term) 'fear to commit'

I don't disagree, but could you post the data?

Often a group has an agenda of some sort and twists the data to serve their purposes.

My main concern in this area is 'ethical conduct' of people. I prefer secular value systems, but I see that religion sometimes influences/motivates people to behave more ethically. I'm happy with a rise in atheism, as long as there is a corresponding increase in social systems that reinforce 'good values'.... and overall I'm not happy with the job that many parents are doing, so I'd like to see the values that we mostly all agree on being taught (non-religiously) to our kids.

An ex of mine worked at a summer camp (just a regular summer camp, no religious theme at all) where they were really strong with some basic values, like honesty and respect for others and such. If atheist kids aren't getting values taught to them by their religions, and if they happen to have parents who aren't doing the best job of parenting, then its great that they get exposed to the idea of these kinds of values from secular sources.


Edit: I feel there are many factors in our culture influencing kids in the wrong directions, and I often side with religionists when they point out the harms that may follow from allowing our kids to be unduly influenced by the likes of Hollywood movies (for example).

This reminds me - when I was a kid, our mainstream cartoon shows (also from hollywood???) would often end with some cheesy, silly, heavy handed ethical teaching. My friends and I would sorta roll our eyes at the cheesy, vaguely condescending approach...but it also gave us something to think about, and we did.

of course people are not bound by the first amendment. they are free to debate how others choose to believe unfettered.

Oh, absolutely. You also have the right to denigrate non-whites in public, discuss sex acts with animals at a parade or all number of other loathsome things. That doesn't mean it's right. How you choose to believe or not believe is none of my business, so I won't debate it in public. If anything, I would talk about how I believe.

i suppose that's true. and as there are people who think that interracial marrige is a bad thing, wanting to 'keep the races pure' and others more open minded see diversity as best, many think a rise in secularism is a good thing, lessening dogma that historically ignites hostility, others see it as a deterioration of 'family values'. all is debatable.

Well i do feel my inquiry was a bit ambiguous. The reason why i asked is because i cannot figure out why certain people feel so threatened by atheism? Me myself, yes I'm an atheist, but i still like to read up on religion whether it is Greek, Egyptian or Christianity. Just wanted to see some people personal views on the matter, consider in there are more "out spoken" atheists as time passes.



This completely wrong, i have never heard an atheist say he "refuses" to believe, not only is that ignorant it is naive. If a deity came out the sky and said hey look at me, then i doubt seriously an atheist would still reject. What you might be referring to is anti-theism. Most atheists are agnostic atheist as i'm sure you know the meaning.

Just read the data part, the only problem with the data is the option "no religion" which can mean anything, but here is something i read before:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#North_America

I've heard 'agnostic atheist' to mean "people who lack a belief in a deity, who think that such knowledge is also not obtainable". I've also heard "agnostic atheist" to simply mean "people who lack a belief in a deity" (in other words, a 'weak' atheist).

I like to linkify:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#North_America

Pardon forgot this forum don't auto link.

Agnosticism is to know something or not know something. Atheism is lack of belief in any God(s) because there's no evidence of the contrary. One cannot assert he/she knows if something is a truism, but can deny it based off someone claims and lack of supporting evidence. No different then people who reject multidimensional hypothesis. To get back on topic, if you combine the two "I'm an atheist because there is no evidence of God(s), but i cannot assert i know this for 100% fact this is true" weak atheism as you put it yes, but the way i put it is more common. It's no different then theists who cannot assert they 100% know for a fact there's a God. Agnosticism by itself is tricky, it's more so someone who doesn't care to believe/disbelieve and just doesn't have the knowledge to know.

seems many different understandings of atheist and agnostic

I was tought they are two different things,, that is how I used the term in my post

atheism(no god)

agnostic(without knowledge of God)


atheist(to me) seems like a very FIRM stand (NO God)

where as agnostic seems like a refusal to commit to either side(NO KNOWLEDGE of God)


I think most self proclaimed christians and atheists are agnostic(no Knowledge of God)


some self proclaimed christians insist upon having knowledge
and some self proclaimed atheists insist there is No God