God granted dominion over all the earth, the way biology grants me dominion over my children

I would never think that gave me a 'pass' to misuse them

nor do I believe it would be common amongst the religious to think they could misuse the earth (no more common than amongst non religious for certain)

I have always been taught and believed that with great privilege/authority came great responsibility

the belief that privilige or authority are passes for misuse and mistreatment is not based in anything more than selfishness which is as prevalant a trait amongst the non religious as it is the religious

Except hitting ones children is abuse and the bible encourages it so the dominion is flawed big time...

Of course it's all connected. We have damaged ecosystems beyond recovery all over the world. We are only now learning just how fragile the overall system is in response to heat, toxins, lack of water, removal of key species like the honeybee. There are hard science groups all over the world crapping in their pants at what is happening to the world right now.

There was a time where we could have made some major changes and reversed major damage but various "tipping points" are occurring at this moment which makes many mass extinctions likely.

Most of our planet is covered with oceans and the oceans are dying.

hmm, I wonder why we allow children to partipate in sports like football and wrestling then,,,,,

guess its ok as 'fun' but not as 'discipline'.....


there is a difference between abuse and discipline, the bible doesnt encourage abuse, it encourages discipline

ah, yes. i did misread you. but that we humans might bring on our own demise is hardly certain and it has nothing to do with god or religion. i'm not religious in the least and i think that humans are adaptable and will adapt better than any species thus far to changes is the environment. and we are actually adjusting our habits as we speak to better the environment or at least lessen it's destruction. whose to say that our recognizing that we do have a hand in what's happening to the environment will not be a wake up call that leads us to methods that may actually build a better environment for humans? something that might never have happened had we not began the destruction in the first place and learned that we can and do influence our surroundings? if we can influence for the worse, perhaps we can influence for the better too, no?

having said all that, whose to say that an invironment suitable to humans is the best invironment for life? now there is an atmosphere that consists of twenty one percent oxygen. that has not always been so. oxygen is one of the most corrosive substances known. it destroys metals for instance and without oxygen cancer could not survive. at one time the atmosphere contained only eighteen percent oxygen and hosted species that could not survive in today's environment. that's what i meant when i said that we humans need to learn a little humility. what's good for humans is not necessarily good for the universe or even this miniscule rock we live on.

and here's a postulate to consider, as wacky as it sounds. suppose humans evolved for the very purpose of destroying the planet. go ahead laugh, but stay with me a sec. we know the gravity of planets causa stars to 'wobble'. that is precisely how we know that stars other than our sun also have planets orbiting them. now suppos that wobbling is a destructive force for stars and the fewer planets in the universe the longer lasting of stars and the universe itself.

or here's another from this wacko, your's truely. say the oposite is actually the case. that planets enhance the growth of stars. that they take longer to morph into a red giant and destroy itself as our sun will likely do in another five billion years. now perhaps humans and other advanced life forms are harmful to their host planet so the aids virus evolved to rid the earth of humans.

everything that occurs anywhere in the universe affects everything else everywhere in the universe. the butterfly the theory. i don't necessarily think that everything has a purpose but as little as we know about the universe i have to think that there is some mechanism that works in favor of the universe preserving itself just as any species fights for survival. humans have been around for a miniscule period when compared to thirteen point seven five billion years and as god was created in our own minds that means religion has been around an even shorter period of time. so yes, humans do need to learn humility but the religious faithful need learn it even more.

i suppose abuse takes on different meanings for each of us. my ex used to consider it abusive to a dog to let it ride in the back of a pickup even when tethered so it couldn't fall out. yet 'dogs love trucks' and many owners see it as a treat for their pooch and harly abusive at all. i can recall my brother and i when we were todlers standing on the front seat of dad's fifty eight imapala leaning against a solid steel dashboard gazing out the windshield not six inches from our scar free little faces as the family bounded along the highway at seventy miles per hour. now we have laws that forbid such things to protect children from the stupidity of their parents. but the bible does indeed encourage physical methods to foster discipline. methods that might be found legally abusive today.

thats true

and psychologists encourage methods which might be legally considered kidnapping or duress(if it were an adult)

but thank goodness most people understand the significant differences between adult to adult interaction and parent to child interaction

Shalom Red

Part is from scripture and part from science.

Yellowstone is in the cycle to where it could explode at anytime.

several; years ago scientest put GPS devices throughout Yellowstone which was made by a super Volcano 640,000 years ago. The Gps data from space measures its distance to them.. they found out that Yellowstone had risen 4 ft is a few years.. indicating lava was pushing upwards.. it was so serious that they started mass evacuations of towns close and was even on local TV to get out through press specials. Washington then got a hold of it and made them retract thier statements aand they were right it did not has not yet happened.. also they found dead buffalo and wolves that looked like they just fell over dead.. autopsy's and testing the air showed a high concentration of carbonmonoxide gas present which a is what the silent killer was.. just like gas furnces in houses do to people every year.

This also is a sign that something is going on underneath Yellowstone whish its candra is 20 miles wide and 60 miles long..

Scientests have said thaat if it goes off like it did the ash it would spew would cover the whole state of Texas in 12 foot of ash.

Planes would fall from the sky and now they are saaying all of N America would be destroyed.

This fits up perfect with the usa and it would cause world wide hunger/starvation since we are the worlds bread basket.

Now scripture to this cause.


Rev 16:18-21
18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth. 19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. 20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.
NKJV


It very well may be the greatest earthquake ever and 100 pound hailstones/ lava rocck.. is very likely for 100's of miles away to fall from the sky..

Gen 1:1 - Rev 18:3

After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying,"Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! 3 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury."
NKJV


We have done this. We have more prisons than anywhere in the world. It calls these foul spirits that we have locked up.

We have made the world rich.. money standards through the world is based off our dollar I Believe at least.

scientists say that if it goes off that Europe would see " the smoke of our/of her burning" they would wail the world would go into crisis that we have never seen before.

The kings who have been made rich would be scared to death as we can not protect them anymore.


also the 3rd Horseman I Believe has already rode or is still riding as our symbol for democrocy is Scales.

Rev 6:5-6
So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, "A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine."
NKJV


Then after that is famine.. IMO babylon the great is destroyed by Yellowstone and thier will not be enough for the middle east and europe, russia to eat or spread around.. when food is scarce people will do anything to get it.. wars break out everywhere..

Rev 6:7-8

When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, "Come and see." 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.
NKJV


a 1/4 of the earth will fight for food.. Blessings of Shalom Red..Miles

well most people understand the significant differences. the rub is, some people interpret the scriptures differently than you seem to. therein lies the danger in religious dogma. a beaten child excused as 'god's will be done' is still child abuse.

yeah, people see what they want to see I Guess,,,

god KNOWS his children, GOD KNOWS all things, GOD IS ALL knowing....

etc. etc. etc.

Seems one of 'gods' many errors was granting dominion, or maybe wasn't clear. The message should have been more on the lines of...
um, this planet is what sustains you, take care of her and she will take care of you.
Not... go and kill, burn, drill, pollute, dump whatever.. wherever. YOU have dominion over this rock, now go have fun!
Wonder if adam, eve and the clan, were better stewards than our generation.

dang it

Firstly to try and compare sports to a parent abusing and hitting their child constantly, makes you look plain stupid. That argument is just ridiculous, two entirely different things.

Second, that would work.....if you don't count that God will kill you and let you die and possibly even burn forever according to some if you don't obey Him. That would qualify as abuse to me........

where do you get this "god will kill you" stuff at?

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)


1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)





From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)


The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)



this is some serious discipline

oh yeah back on topic i believe some companies around the world are contributing to the green house gases,but i don't think it's as bad as the money making Green people make it out to be.Remember the earth releases green house gases on its own also up into the atmosphere.Plus the magnetic field is getting hammered all the time buy solar winds which could be factored in also.Don't get me wrong i'm for protecting the earth and it's enviroment but i think the Green companies want their hands in the cookie jar also.

Mother earth has to be reaching close to menopause age to,so she could be going through changes

Where do you think? Put it this way, even if there is no hell biblically speaking, a God who is gonna kill you for all eternity if you don't do exactly what you're told, is a God who has a superiority complex and a large ego.

I think the real question is, "Have humans ruined the Earth beyond saving?"

The Judeo-Christian religions and the scriptures they are based upon have been inconsistent concerning how we should view the physical world.

Some say that we should be "Stewards of the Earth".

Others say that the physical world is the domain of Satan, and it's actually a "sin" to appreciate and/or take pleasure in physical things and the "flesh".

These ancient myths have been the cause of much superstition and confusion about whether or not we should be enjoying the physical world and treating it as the beautiful creation of "God", or whether we should be resisting the temptations of the physical world and shunning it as the domain of Satan.

The scriptures themselves contain contradictory views on these things. The whole cannon of fables is nothing more than inconsistent superstitions mixed with some wisdom and common sense. It's just a hodgepodge of various ideas, superstitions, and myths written, retold, re-translated and eventually tossed into a single cannon that people have been taught to "worship" as the "Word of God" even though in truth the whole shebang is nothing more than utterly confusing contradictions of ideals.

The truth of the matter is that if some "creator" had anything to do with the writing of the Bible, then that "creator" would be the lamest communicator and mentor every known to mankind. I've met individual mortal humans during the sort course of my own lifetime that would put this creator to shame as a mentor, teacher, and communicator.

The biblical myths are just that. Totally fabricated by mortal men who often wrote some pretty disgusting stuff into their stories.

Should we be "Stewards of God's Creation?", or should we "Shun the physical domain of Satan!".

Can't tell by these fables. They suggest we should do both depending on which part of this cannon of fables you happen to be reading at the moment.

Clearly it can't be both. Either this world is the "Creation of God" and it should not be the slightest "sin" to appreciate it and enjoy it, and "Sins of the Flesh" is a BIG LIE. Or this world is the "Domain of Satan" and we should all work to have it flushed down the toilet ASAP.

Let's make up our minds and do one or the other. But pretending that we can continue to have a cake and eat it too is really getting OLD.

The physical world is either "God's Creation" and thus it is GOOD.

Or it's the "Domain of Satan" and thus it is BAD.

Can't have it both ways simultaneously.