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| Topic: What is Faith? | |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Tue 07/26/11 04:23 AM
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fact - b : an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage> 5: a piece of information presented as having objective reality ,,hard to prove the bible has no 'facts' More like no facts you'll accept. You have a bias to prove it true, so you cling to that no matter what argument is made against its' validity. You probably don't even realize you do it, but you do it. |
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fact - b : an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage> 5: a piece of information presented as having objective reality ,,hard to prove the bible has no 'facts' More like no facts you'll accept. You have a bias to prove it true, so you cling to that no matter what argument is made against its' validity. You probably don't even realize you do it, but you do it. We all have biases, that's why they call it personal beliefs. If you didn't believe it, it would be a bias as well. Like wise if you are bias it doesn't mean you are not open minded, it just means that you have chosen this as being more accurate or acceptable to your liking. |
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fact - b : an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage> 5: a piece of information presented as having objective reality ,,hard to prove the bible has no 'facts' More like no facts you'll accept. You have a bias to prove it true, so you cling to that no matter what argument is made against its' validity. You probably don't even realize you do it, but you do it. We all have biases, that's why they call it personal beliefs. If you didn't believe it, it would be a bias as well. Like wise if you are bias it doesn't mean you are not open minded, it just means that you have chosen this as being more accurate or acceptable to your liking. I think in a way though it is the case, because when you're so stuck on one belief system, you become incapable of seeing anything outside of it even if it disproves what you believe. To see the actual truth, you have to let go of all preconceived notions. Only then can you know. I did that, and I do know now, it's crystal clear to me. But the religious cannot or refuse to, so they really do not know. They think they know, but they really do not. |
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fact - b : an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage> 5: a piece of information presented as having objective reality ,,hard to prove the bible has no 'facts' More like no facts you'll accept. You have a bias to prove it true, so you cling to that no matter what argument is made against its' validity. You probably don't even realize you do it, but you do it. We all have biases, that's why they call it personal beliefs. If you didn't believe it, it would be a bias as well. Like wise if you are bias it doesn't mean you are not open minded, it just means that you have chosen this as being more accurate or acceptable to your liking. I think in a way though it is the case, because when you're so stuck on one belief system, you become incapable of seeing anything outside of it even if it disproves what you believe. To see the actual truth, you have to let go of all preconceived notions. Only then can you know. I did that, and I do know now, it's crystal clear to me. But the religious cannot or refuse to, so they really do not know. They think they know, but they really do not. I think there is a ton of truth to this. I deal with this in the music business all the time. People become so set that it takes forever to get them to do something that makes things sound better. On this forum though there aren't many Christians (that I have gotten to know) that are very close minded. I do think that what your saying is pretty true for a lot of bench warmers though. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Tue 07/26/11 07:38 AM
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fact - b : an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage> 5: a piece of information presented as having objective reality ,,hard to prove the bible has no 'facts' More like no facts you'll accept. You have a bias to prove it true, so you cling to that no matter what argument is made against its' validity. You probably don't even realize you do it, but you do it. We all have biases, that's why they call it personal beliefs. If you didn't believe it, it would be a bias as well. Like wise if you are bias it doesn't mean you are not open minded, it just means that you have chosen this as being more accurate or acceptable to your liking. I think in a way though it is the case, because when you're so stuck on one belief system, you become incapable of seeing anything outside of it even if it disproves what you believe. To see the actual truth, you have to let go of all preconceived notions. Only then can you know. I did that, and I do know now, it's crystal clear to me. But the religious cannot or refuse to, so they really do not know. They think they know, but they really do not. I think there is a ton of truth to this. I deal with this in the music business all the time. People become so set that it takes forever to get them to do something that makes things sound better. On this forum though there aren't many Christians (that I have gotten to know) that are very close minded. I do think that what your saying is pretty true for a lot of bench warmers though. Let me just ask you a question if I may mg, can you handle it if you find out you had it wrong? If you were to find out that the Bible wasn't the truth, that perhaps Jesus never existed even, how would you handle that if you found out it wasn't the truth? I think a lot of times, particularly in religion but certainly not limited to it, there is a lot of pride involved. People cling to what they know, what they are familiar with as being the truth. Anything that deviates that from that scares them, because then they have to face the possibility that maybe what they've been told is a lie, is false. So rather than face that fact, they just hold onto to what they know instead. It's easier for them than to have to deal with the fact that maybe they have been deceived. |
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the unconditional belief in something or someone
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fact - b : an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage> 5: a piece of information presented as having objective reality ,,hard to prove the bible has no 'facts' More like no facts you'll accept. You have a bias to prove it true, so you cling to that no matter what argument is made against its' validity. You probably don't even realize you do it, but you do it. We all have biases, that's why they call it personal beliefs. If you didn't believe it, it would be a bias as well. Like wise if you are bias it doesn't mean you are not open minded, it just means that you have chosen this as being more accurate or acceptable to your liking. I think in a way though it is the case, because when you're so stuck on one belief system, you become incapable of seeing anything outside of it even if it disproves what you believe. To see the actual truth, you have to let go of all preconceived notions. Only then can you know. I did that, and I do know now, it's crystal clear to me. But the religious cannot or refuse to, so they really do not know. They think they know, but they really do not. I think there is a ton of truth to this. I deal with this in the music business all the time. People become so set that it takes forever to get them to do something that makes things sound better. On this forum though there aren't many Christians (that I have gotten to know) that are very close minded. I do think that what your saying is pretty true for a lot of bench warmers though. Let me just ask you a question if I may mg, can you handle it if you find out you had it wrong? If you were to find out that the Bible wasn't the truth, that perhaps Jesus never existed even, how would you handle that if you found out it wasn't the truth? I think a lot of times, particularly in religion but certainly not limited to it, there is a lot of pride involved. People cling to what they know, what they are familiar with as being the truth. Anything that deviates that from that scares them, because then they have to face the possibility that maybe what they've been told is a lie, is false. So rather than face that fact, they just hold onto to what they know instead. It's easier for them than to have to deal with the fact that maybe they have been deceived. Sure I don't mind. I think if I found out that it wasn't true I would try to figure out how this conversion happened to me. My conversion came before any study or knowledge of the bible so there was no training of Jesus that led me up to a point of excepting him as real. So the conversion was one thing and the studies were another to make the link between the two make sense. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Tue 07/26/11 08:05 AM
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fact - b : an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage> 5: a piece of information presented as having objective reality ,,hard to prove the bible has no 'facts' More like no facts you'll accept. You have a bias to prove it true, so you cling to that no matter what argument is made against its' validity. You probably don't even realize you do it, but you do it. We all have biases, that's why they call it personal beliefs. If you didn't believe it, it would be a bias as well. Like wise if you are bias it doesn't mean you are not open minded, it just means that you have chosen this as being more accurate or acceptable to your liking. I think in a way though it is the case, because when you're so stuck on one belief system, you become incapable of seeing anything outside of it even if it disproves what you believe. To see the actual truth, you have to let go of all preconceived notions. Only then can you know. I did that, and I do know now, it's crystal clear to me. But the religious cannot or refuse to, so they really do not know. They think they know, but they really do not. I think there is a ton of truth to this. I deal with this in the music business all the time. People become so set that it takes forever to get them to do something that makes things sound better. On this forum though there aren't many Christians (that I have gotten to know) that are very close minded. I do think that what your saying is pretty true for a lot of bench warmers though. Let me just ask you a question if I may mg, can you handle it if you find out you had it wrong? If you were to find out that the Bible wasn't the truth, that perhaps Jesus never existed even, how would you handle that if you found out it wasn't the truth? I think a lot of times, particularly in religion but certainly not limited to it, there is a lot of pride involved. People cling to what they know, what they are familiar with as being the truth. Anything that deviates that from that scares them, because then they have to face the possibility that maybe what they've been told is a lie, is false. So rather than face that fact, they just hold onto to what they know instead. It's easier for them than to have to deal with the fact that maybe they have been deceived. Sure I don't mind. I think if I found out that it wasn't true I would try to figure out how this conversion happened to me. My conversion came before any study or knowledge of the bible so there was no training of Jesus that led me up to a point of excepting him as real. Maybe it was just God alone, ever think of that? Perhaps it's not where you found God, but that you found God period that matters. That's another thing religion tends to do, make one believe that where we find God matters, but really it doesn't. One can find God in a Buddhist religion just as much as in a Catholic. It's the faith that causes us to find God not where or how we believe it. |
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fact - b : an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage> 5: a piece of information presented as having objective reality ,,hard to prove the bible has no 'facts' More like no facts you'll accept. You have a bias to prove it true, so you cling to that no matter what argument is made against its' validity. You probably don't even realize you do it, but you do it. We all have biases, that's why they call it personal beliefs. If you didn't believe it, it would be a bias as well. Like wise if you are bias it doesn't mean you are not open minded, it just means that you have chosen this as being more accurate or acceptable to your liking. I think in a way though it is the case, because when you're so stuck on one belief system, you become incapable of seeing anything outside of it even if it disproves what you believe. To see the actual truth, you have to let go of all preconceived notions. Only then can you know. I did that, and I do know now, it's crystal clear to me. But the religious cannot or refuse to, so they really do not know. They think they know, but they really do not. I think there is a ton of truth to this. I deal with this in the music business all the time. People become so set that it takes forever to get them to do something that makes things sound better. On this forum though there aren't many Christians (that I have gotten to know) that are very close minded. I do think that what your saying is pretty true for a lot of bench warmers though. Let me just ask you a question if I may mg, can you handle it if you find out you had it wrong? If you were to find out that the Bible wasn't the truth, that perhaps Jesus never existed even, how would you handle that if you found out it wasn't the truth? I think a lot of times, particularly in religion but certainly not limited to it, there is a lot of pride involved. People cling to what they know, what they are familiar with as being the truth. Anything that deviates that from that scares them, because then they have to face the possibility that maybe what they've been told is a lie, is false. So rather than face that fact, they just hold onto to what they know instead. It's easier for them than to have to deal with the fact that maybe they have been deceived. Sure I don't mind. I think if I found out that it wasn't true I would try to figure out how this conversion happened to me. My conversion came before any study or knowledge of the bible so there was no training of Jesus that led me up to a point of excepting him as real. Maybe it was just God alone, ever think of that? Perhaps it's not where you found God, but that you found God period that matters. That's another thing religion tends to do, make one believe that where we find God matters, but really it doesn't. One can find God in a Buddhist religion just as much as in a Catholic. It's the faith that causes us to find God not where or how we believe it. Maybe you didn't understand me or are thinking still that I went to church and found God. It didn't happen to me that way. God found me or should I say God made God real to me then I started seeking where God was. I'm extremely open minded to where and how God works. I think it is one of the things that is so attractive to me about God. But as far as the religious side of it I don't get hung up on it. If a Buddhist finds God or Catholic or whatever I'm pretty cool with all of that. I'm pretty secure with my findings and my personal relationship to God and Christ. The thing that impresses me the most about God are the peaceful attributes that have converted my life. If someone else finds the same level of peace and contentment I'm totally hip to that. I obviously can't being inside of that person to know what is real or not. I can only be inside of myself and what I have is very real. I also won't expect someone who is not able to be inside of me to experience what I have. I do bare wittiness to people meaning can feel if they have the same thing I do but that is part of the family aspect. Anyone who finds God or is found by God I am extremely happy for. |
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The Bible contains truth but it is hard to find. There are too many stories in the Bible that are not true and it obscures the true stuff.
I agree that people can find God or realize something beyond their own physical existence. It is a shifting of consciousness towards becoming more aware of our connection to the whole. |
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Edited by
jrbogie
on
Tue 07/26/11 10:39 AM
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We all have biases, that's why they call it personal beliefs. If you didn't believe it, it would be a bias as well. not so in the least. as an agnostic i don't believe anything other than what i experience myself simply because i cannot know anything other than what i experience. since i cannot know i cannot be biased one way or the other. i have no personal beliefs outside of my own experiences. i will agree, however, that one who takes a belief opposing another belief is indeed biased. an atheist believing god does not exist is every bit as biased as one of faith believing god does exist. but thinking that neither can ever know i cannot form a bias. at least on that particular topic. |
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Edited by
Dragoness
on
Tue 07/26/11 11:09 AM
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 Did I just see a whole bunch of bible verses posted?  The bible doesn't prove anything. Faith is the belief that something is true without tangible proof that can be shown to others as verification of why it is true. And then you have the religious people with blind faith, which goes even further into having less tangible proof of anything to show it is true. Yes I saw them posted. Aren't they beautiful! Do you believe in living truth? Nope, it is gobly guck designed to fry the mind so you are easier to control. It works well huh?  Well if you don't believe in living truths let me ask you a question. Do you know how to walk? Yup and my walking has nothing to do with faith, god, a bible, or any of that, including a living truth so you can stop right there. No point in going any further with me. Lets see if you can stop yourself. I have no desire to stop myself if that's ok. No conversion talk here sis. Just wanted to share some things I have had to relearn. Hope it doesn't offend you. It's not the intent if it does. I already know you don't like Christians and that's no biggie to me. Here's what I have learned. The fact is you can not walk without faith. That's how the brain works. Two years ago I had a disease that forced me to learn everything from scratch again. During the process we took courses on how the mind worked with the rest of our body's parts. One of the things taught was going from having legs but not knowing how to use them, and turn them into usable parts again. You could look at your legs but they didn't move till you told them to and you could tell them to but until you had faith that you could do this nothing happened. True story. The brain and how it works is fascinating. Basically I was a clean slate as far as my commands went from my brain to my body. How strange to live through this as the first time this happens you are too young to know what's up. As your growing up you learn all the connections on the way and practice them till they mature. With my memory loss I went through the same thing. A trip! With the amount of shock to my brain at the time the docs had no idea how far along I would come back. Would I walk, talk, think in complete thoughts at first were completely up in the air. Sometimes when the brain looses contact with the rest of the body it comes back as if it never had a short and other times it stays shorted out and you loose function. A wild ride but I'm glad I took it. If you decide to shut the door on this that's fine others will read and listen. I'm not here to change you only to respond to you. I can speak with clear personal facts on this issue. Faith is a part of every thing we do. I have had a chance many do not get to revisit this truth. It's given me a renewed perception of how much we depend on what we believe and the truth that is or isn't there. Basically no matter what you believe you do so because of faith and no matter what you do you do so as a result of that faith. thanks you can go back to not liking me now LOL, I knew you couldn't stop yourself. That is an affliction of the religious folks. Anyway, I don't know you. So I can't dislike you. I don't dislike Christians, I dislike their ways, like not being able to stop themselves from "saving" those who do not wish to be saved....lol You proved my point well because even if I don't read it you figured someone would, you even wrote it in there. As to my addressing the invalidity of the bible to prove anything that is just a fact. It doesn't prove anything to anyone. There are those who choose to glean information from it and use it but it is not verification of anything except the minds of men and their thoughts and stories from thousands of years ago. So I do have an issue with the bible being used to verify anything tangible about anything other than how men of that time thought about things. We should be smarter than them by now or at least we should believe we should be smarter than them by now. As to your story of the how the brain and body function. I never said that faith doesn't exist, we all know it does. Also the learning process is much more complex than you listed here. If you never saw anyone else walk, you wouldn't even think you needed to either for example. |
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I already know you don't like Christians and that's no biggie to me. Do Christians really think a lot of atheists or others hate them? I'm an atheist as I'm sure most of your know and I don't hate Christians, in fact I'm very involved with one now (we been through or differences phase and I still respect and like her) . I don't hate Christians, I just don't like Christianity, Islam or any organized religion that promotes hate. Religion should only be about love and to self. It really isn't about disliking the religious. Have you known someone in your life that you just cannot be nice to or cannot allow them access to you fully or they take advantage of it? Well, with Christians who have been spoiled in this country by being given far too many leniencies, one has to be stern in order to get the point across. I used to be nice and just let them know that I don't believe in what they do. They will then increase their pressure to "save" you until they are unbearable. And they believe that praying in public places helps "save" others too. They believe that being "god-fearing" is a character reference. They want to inundate the whole country with their "saving" methods whether the country wants it or not. That is the problem. One has to be super stern in order to make the point known and understood as it needs to be. |
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We all have biases, that's why they call it personal beliefs. If you didn't believe it, it would be a bias as well. not so in the least. as an agnostic i don't believe anything other than what i experience myself simply because i cannot know anything other than what i experience. since i cannot know i cannot be biased one way or the other. i have no personal beliefs outside of my own experiences. i will agree, however, that one who takes a belief opposing another belief is indeed biased. an atheist believing god does not exist is every bit as biased as one of faith believing god does exist. but thinking that neither can ever know i cannot form a bias. at least on that particular topic. Jrboogie I wish you would check out this thread about knowing and knowledge and say that there... http://mingle2.com/topic/show/306298?page=22 |
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The Bible contains truth but it is hard to find. There are too many stories in the Bible that are not true and it obscures the true stuff. I agree that people can find God or realize something beyond their own physical existence. It is a shifting of consciousness toward becoming more aware of our connection to the whole. It is hard to find. I would have divided the books up differently and made them into topical areas instead of old and new testaments. I also would have had topical indexes and historical backgrounds as prefixes before each book. For me it was like Jonah and the whale, hello, need a little help here? I don't have a problem with miracles I just want to know when I'm reading one and where did the source come from. Was it a story to prove a point or an actual miracle would be nice. Or trying to figure out Noah's ark. How many animals were there, was this again a story to show a point, or as you say is it possible that this is mythical. If there were a prefix that gave different views of what the care takers of the writings were doing or thinking or where they got the stories it would have gone a long way to solving some of the question. What they did instead is said take your pill and swallow it. I'm very fortunate that the teachers I had when I did my studies were very open minded (most of them) and shared things with me outside of the do and do nots of the books. If this would not have happened I would be not so big of a fan of most of the books. |
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We all have biases, that's why they call it personal beliefs. If you didn't believe it, it would be a bias as well. not so in the least. as an agnostic i don't believe anything other than what i experience myself simply because i cannot know anything other than what i experience. since i cannot know i cannot be biased one way or the other. i have no personal beliefs outside of my own experiences. i will agree, however, that one who takes a belief opposing another belief is indeed biased. an atheist believing god does not exist is every bit as biased as one of faith believing god does exist. but thinking that neither can ever know i cannot form a bias. at least on that particular topic. Jrboogie I wish you would check out this thread about knowing and knowledge and say that there... http://mingle2.com/topic/show/306298?page=22 i've already expressed my views there jeannie. and i stand by my comments. your wish granted before you even wished it. lol. |
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these threads must be full of only 'religious' folks, who continually post their opinions for others to read,,,,,,
Ill cop to it! will anyone else,,,,? 
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We all have biases, that's why they call it personal beliefs. If you didn't believe it, it would be a bias as well. not so in the least. as an agnostic i don't believe anything other than what i experience myself simply because i cannot know anything other than what i experience. since i cannot know i cannot be biased one way or the other. i have no personal beliefs outside of my own experiences. i will agree, however, that one who takes a belief opposing another belief is indeed biased. an atheist believing god does not exist is every bit as biased as one of faith believing god does exist. but thinking that neither can ever know i cannot form a bias. at least on that particular topic. Jrboogie I wish you would check out this thread about knowing and knowledge and say that there... http://mingle2.com/topic/show/306298?page=22 i've already expressed my views there jeannie. and i stand by my comments. your wish granted before you even wished it. lol.  Great, I agree with what you have said. |
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