it's entertaining to debate the bible but to do it fairly one has to play along with the believers as if God exist or that the belief is true or that the bible is actually the true word of God or that Jesus was actually his son

but in doing so it presents a bias view of the belief through the eyes and faith of those that claim to believe but a view of how others may have viewed the arrival of Jesus is not fairly presented

this thread will attempt to provide a view of Jesus as seen through the eyes of the Pharisees, Rome and those that had no religion or didn't believe in or worship Gods

so what if Jesus used the same exploits here in mingle2 that was portrayed in the new testament during the times of the arrival of Jesus and before his crucifixion...will it show that Jesus were nothing more than a cult leader or a mental case and that the entire religion is based on the absurd

NOTE TO MINGLE2 MODERATORS:
if I happen to do or post something that gets me crucified or in this case banned...can you only ban me for 3 days so that I can be resurrected as to keep on topic with the thread ...

but anyway let's begin the Chronicles of Jesus Christ Minglestar

Behold...for I have not come to change the laws of Mingle2 but to full fill them

I have been granted authority over the Internet and all of Mingle2's forums

so now is there any believer that dare to translate what this would mean here in Mingle2 according to the bible and what is now expected of it's members ...if not...then now perhaps they will understand how others not of the belief would have viewed Jesus making such statements..

Some say that Jesus actually ressurrected a dying religion namely the teachings of the Torah. I guess people had a choice then. Either to follow the Romans who believed in multiple gods or the Torah in one god that rules them all. The god of the gods.

Then Jesus came back from the missing years. What did he do in those missing years? No one knows. Some say he was in Egypt and others claim he was as far as northern India.

And when he came back he tried to teach what he learned. A more peaceful approach as oppossed what the old testaments provide.

When all the attention was given to him the Jews made a deal with the Romans to get rid of him. Both the Roman officials and the Jew officials didn't like that their religions were not given the spotlight and cooperated in the killings of anyone believing in Christianity.

When Jesus died it is said that the Jews then wrote what they believe would ressurrect their religion and keep it viable. In otherwords the continuation of having a God that rules all other gods regardless of origin. If it is Egyptian or Roman...one god rules them all.

Sort of like one ring rules them all in the Lord of the Rings. lol

I know for many this doesn't make sense, but I am just telling you what some observers concluded to. Does it sound far fetched? If you look at it in a historical reference sounds reasonable. I am sure I left out some loopholes along the way, but I might be getting closer to understanding it in a different perspective.

I think Jesus was really trying to show a different way of handling situations, but somehow I think personally he should have lived a longer life and really have tried to avoid being persecuted by the Romans. That way maybe he could have hired a scribe to write his life endeavors. Perhaps they would have been different stories then how we know it. Instead we have writers that may have twisted the tale so many times, and translated it into some many languages, that it just not the story it is suppose to be. Intentionally or not.

I mean now we have just recently seen all over the news a month ago about the newest testament available everywhere. It makes you wonder what has been added or taken out this time.

I snipped out the center of your post because I wanted to contrast your first and last paragraphs.

In your first paragraph your speaking about having to "play along" that Jesus actually existed and made the claim he made.

But then you go on to provide a scenario of "Jesus Christ Minglestar" that basically makes similar assumptions. (i.e. that Jesus Minglestar actually existed and made his claims on Mingle.)

I wouldn't even be willing to go that far actually.

Made what claims? First, you'd need to provide a source of rumors for what this hypothetical "Jesus Christ Minglestar" had supposedly. I certainly never saw any of his posts.

Also if you provide these "rumors" in a specified "cannon" of rumors to which no one is permitted to add or take away from, then I've something I can pick apart.

Then I could show where there are tons of contradictions and absurd errors, etc.

But if you just turn it into a "Free for all" where there is no specified "cannon" of rumors that is proclaimed to the sole verbatim posts of "Jesus Christ Minglestar", then it's wide open to speculation of what he might have said.

In fact, anyone can jump in and claim that "Jesus Christ Minglestar" said things and how would you go about deciding whether or not they are just making those things up?

Without a "cannon of rumors" that's proclaimed to be infallible then the rumors could never be compared with each other. People could just say, "Well, I believe some of the rumors but not others".

Of if they find rumors that conflict they could just pick and chose which one's they prefer to believe.

In the Biblical Cannon, non of that is allowed. There is one concrete set of rumors that have basically been "carved in stone" for all intents and purposes, and if those special canonized rumors can be shown to conflict with each other, or conflict with a premise of what the character of God is supposed to be like, then you can show that the cannon of rumors itself is necessarily flawed.

In the case of the actual canonized rumors themselves (i.e. The Christian Bible) I feel confident that they are riddled with contradictions galore, both in contradicting the claims of other rumors within the same cannon, as well as contradicting the very premise of what their "God" is supposed to be like in terms of character.

So it's that canonized set of rumors that I renounce.

Whether some guy named "Jesus" actually existed is a WHOLE OTHER STORY. Perhaps he lived and taught things that simply don't match up with the canonized rumors?

I can accept that. In fact, that's my conclusion. I believe that Jesus was not "The Christ" as claimed in the book of rumors, but rather he was more likely a Jewish Pantheist or Mahayana Buddhist.

That makes far more practical sense to me.

Christianity really has nothing to do with Jesus, and everything to do with a specific set of cannonized rumors that are supposedly about this man.

I reject those canonized rumors. I do not reject the idea that a man named Jesus might have actually lived.

In fact, when I look around at what various people think of me I can assure everyone that if they wrote a canonized book of rumors about me it would be nothing more than a collection of incorrect opinions. Maybe sprinkled with some truths here and there.

And if I can see where they would get rumors about me all wrong, then why should I believe that they would get rumors about anyone else any better?

I don't think the Romans saw Jesus as a religious threat at all. The Roman Empire stretched over many lands, which contained multiple religions - from the Druids of ancient England to those that worshiped the gods of Egypt. To the Romans, Jesus was just a threat to the political order of things.

On his last week of life, Jesus entered the city of Jerusalem riding that little mule (a$$ if you will). This was a direct mocking of Pilot himself, who entered the city during the same week to show Roman authority during the time of the Jewish Passover (which was a concern of the Roman government as a possible threat to their authority). It was roman tradition that when the governor of a territory entered a city, the came in on a white horse and with the adulation of the people (who were usually paid to do so). The story of Jesus and the palms leaves is a direct affront to Roman authority in Jerusalem and was probably not received with a hardy laugh.

In actuality, the crucifixion story can be called into question by the mere fact that the body was taken down from the cross. The Romans didn't allow this, as it was considered part of the punishment that the body of a convicted criminal was not allowed to receive funeral rites and therefor the punishment extended beyond the mere mortal life of a person - which coincides with many of the pagan beliefs of other cultures of the Roman Empire. The Romans also wanted the bodies on the cross for as long as possible to show that there authority was final, and their punishment severe. Thousands were crucified yearly in the Roman Empire, so this one account would literally be nothing special to them.

I'm still waiting to see if Christianity will embrace the Revised Bible...the new concepts that have been place into it takes the fun out of debating it ...it seems that the church is slowly trying to take the fantasy of out the religion

an example of this is how the term "Virgin" were removed and replaced with "Young Woman" ...this now suggest that the birth was not immaculate

if anything they should have removed the term "***" from the bible..heck I'm not sure even Mingle2 allow that word of the site...but I will find out after I click the post reply button

but anyway no matter which passage you read that have the word *** in it just sounds funny

FOR EXAMPLE:
1Kings, 13:27 And he spake to his sons, saying, Saddle me the ***. And they saddled him.

did the sons saddle the *** or their father?

also I veiw Jesus as taking the religion into the realm of Pantheism ...especially when he tried to convince Peter that he could use faith to walk on water ...because once you weld faith it turns into witchcraft

Abracadabra...generally when people debate books, movies or cartoon characters they will play along as if the characters are real ...

right...isn't that the same thing I do with the Jesus in the bible play like he actually existed and made his claim that he had authority over the Heavens and The Earth...wouldn't you agree this covers The Internet and Mingle2 ...

some would say that the Messiah name was supposed to be emmanulle but it's accepted as being Jesus which means that Jesus goes by many names so why couldn't one of those names be Jesus Christ Minglestar ...

the thread simply ask how people would view Jesus if he came to mingle2 and stated to us what he stated to those in the bible

Abracadabra ...aren't you a sharp guy...so why do I have to explain all this to you

when people tell me that they are a spirit...I don't start ranting that spirits don't exist....I simply play along and ask them why do they believe that they are a spirit and not a human ...it provides insight

so come on and get into the groove

Rome didn't pay much attention to Jesus which is why they left his fate to Pontious Pilate ...and to keep attention away is why Pilate probably crucified Jesus ....Jesus could be viewed as a rebel starting an uprising and could have been the cause of many people getting killed ...Rome could have easily sent an army in there and destroyed everything and everyone ...

Well I guess I wasn't too far off with what I thought might be true.

In the end the Roman Empire became Christianized when the Roman Emperor Constantine the Great came to view and that is when they started spreading the word perhaps by force, convincing or fear. Perhaps they used a combination of all of them.

The Celts who enjoyed Druidism almost lost their entire history because of it. Just recently they are trying to revive what the Celts once believed in.

This goes for alot of religions or belief systems around the world. The Pagans in Gaul at the time enjoyed their religion also until the Romans came forcing Christianity.

Today we watch how many parts of Africa are christianized also. I am saddened because I believe they should have upheld their cultures and ancient beliefs of the African Gods they use to belief and enjoy. Now one by one they are dwindling...the tribes, the belief systems. Now I hear from many African Americans "God Fearing" in all of their profiles. It is ashame.

I wonder if this whole paradox wouldn't have happened and that the Romans would have continued to believe in the many Roman Gods instead. How would history have been seen then?

Don't mind me funches. I am chatting too much for my own good and probably way off the topic. I will step out and hope this thread will pick up. :)

It is but another strategy to get more members to join their affiliations. I think it is nothing more then a competition of religions. Afterall, their god has to be the king of all other gods and belief systems. It is a sad story that so many people fall into.

Christianity is as much based on culture as it is on dogma. Christian culture is rooted in the belief that you're better than everyone else. That because Christians are forgiven, they are "washed in the blood of the lamb". They are chosen, going to Heaven, while the rest of us are going to burn in Hell. Christians are "morally superior" to the rest of us because "God is on their side" and the rest of us are "tools of Satan" we are "unclean" and we are "evil" while they are "clean" and "good". They believe the bottom line is, "we're good, they're evil" and therefore the rest of us are below subhuman heathens. And they will tell you this to your face. And it's ok if they do it, but is someone says that "Christianity is a cult for weak minded people" -- My God! You're persecuting Christ!

Since Christians are the chosen ones and they speak for God, then what they believe defines what it "moral" and what is "immoral". This having little to do with actual ethics, but there is some overlap. Murder is generally considered a bad thing in all cultures. Atheists and Realists agree with that. But sex is considered immoral outside the context of Christian marriage, an in the case of Catholics, outside the context of reproduction. Sex is not a form of amusement to Catholics and is look upon as a necessary evil to repopulate the planet. Birth control is also considered a sin to many Christian cults. Christian fail to realize that if sex were limited to the context of Christianity, the human race would have become extinct, which would however eliminate sin and keep God from getting pissed off.

Christian go to church mostly for the purpose of reinforcing their beliefs in their own self-righteousness and moral superiority. There they can show off their "faith" in front of their fellow worshipers and participate in cult membership rituals so that they can feel secure that they are an accepted member of their tribe. It allows them to reaffirm their beliefs through mutual ego masturbation, where members reaffirm to each other that they are God's chosen few. People speak in gibberish (tongues) and tell stories of miracles that never happen. It's pretty scary stuff when you realize that these people a really sharing a mass mental illness ritual that is further separating them from the real world and causing them to believe things and behave in ways that have no basis in reality whatsoever.

Christianity perhaps would have had a totally different story if Jesus would have survived at a older age and had the opportunity to write his experiences himself. Perhaps then we would see that he was actually following a more peaceful movement then what the writer's after his death at the time wrote to save the old testament at the time.

"Christian go to church mostly for the purpose of reinforcing their beliefs in their own self-righteousness and moral superiority."


That seems more like what this over-generalized, blanket description of Christians is doing (reinforcing your beliefs)...

Romans Gods just like Yawhew were invisible Gods...the more technology advanced and the people more educated the more they needed Gods that they could see ....some consider Ceasar to be a God so Ceasar helped open the door for this Pantheist Movement that "Man can be God" which open the door for believers to claim that Jesus a man is God

a God that can be seen takes no faith to believe in ...which is why those that claim that Jesus is God have no faith and this concept is one of the reasons why there are so many different sects of Christians ...not all Christians claim that Jesus is God but a creation of God

that a man can be God is what The Old Testament was trying to avoid with the story of Adam and Eve....since God create Adam without womb he was the only true begotton son ...all births after the fall of Adam and Eve were born from sin because all was born of womb including the birth of Jesus ....this is why Jesus was born as a sinner

I really don't expect this thread to go anyplace...I just wanted to create a thread that believers wouldn't dare use bible passages

people are turning away from Christianity for whatever reasons and now claiming spirituality...this way they can dump the religion but keep the God ...so the church has to do something to keep or encourage people to stay or join which explains why the pope acknowledge the possible existence of aliens and has covertly given approval of wearing condoms ....