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| Topic: Burning UP The Food Supply/ Green Agenda | |
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We are overpopulated and over funding lower income households who breed to make larger income from welfare for their families. There are families receiving govt funds for their groceries at $800 a month, when our whole nation is practically bankrupt, and the more you have the more you get... In addition, that whole biofuel thing sounds great but what about the weather, we were down so many fruits and vegetables this year already from unusual freezing temperatures and so many crops were ruined, is it really a good idea to rely on such unpredictable standards? If we are having a shortage on food supply and demand it would not make sense to starve the humans to lower fuel prices. We have so much oil and we are holding out from drilling on our own resources. Why is it? I was under the impression we are trying to suck the resources out of all the other countries first, then use our oil. Not to mention that most of Japan will be VERY limited on the consummables they can export. On top of that, if the government is honest with it's people, they won't be eating this years crops and probably won't for many years. Of course Japan holds a lot of American debt (securities), they just may be able to convince our governement to keep them in food. But then, America has so much food that we waste as much or more than we consume - not to mention that we spend a GREAT deal of fuel, water, and resources to keep people in suguar coated cereal, coffee cakes, donuts, and ..... AND - LET'S not forget how much land in the U.S. is being used to grow tobacco. Do you know that tobacco ruins the soil and it must fallow for some time before other crops can flourish? Which was suppose to have occurred by now becasue after the cigarette corporation lost the the biggest monetary lawsuit EVER, the government paid tobacco farmers an entitlement so they could 'slowly' shift their crops over. BUT even though the lawsuit the Cig Corpt lost included wrongful death and continuous health problems for those who use their product, they were allowed to continue sales. Well those tobacco farmers reaped a ton of money in entitlement only to turn around and begin growing tobacco again because Philip Morris, and the others have discovered a very lucritive internation market - and so our tax dollars (BILLIONS) were wasted and the land is not useful for anything but tobacco, for now. How can we blame tobacco farmers when an acre of tobacco yields anywhere from $100 to $300 dollars more than an acre of corn? |
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Edited by
mightymoe
on
Thu 04/07/11 05:32 PM
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We are overpopulated and over funding lower income households who breed to make larger income from welfare for their families. There are families receiving govt funds for their groceries at $800 a month, when our whole nation is practically bankrupt, and the more you have the more you get... In addition, that whole biofuel thing sounds great but what about the weather, we were down so many fruits and vegetables this year already from unusual freezing temperatures and so many crops were ruined, is it really a good idea to rely on such unpredictable standards? If we are having a shortage on food supply and demand it would not make sense to starve the humans to lower fuel prices. We have so much oil and we are holding out from drilling on our own resources. Why is it? I was under the impression we are trying to suck the resources out of all the other countries first, then use our oil. Not to mention that most of Japan will be VERY limited on the consummables they can export. On top of that, if the government is honest with it's people, they won't be eating this years crops and probably won't for many years. Of course Japan holds a lot of American debt (securities), they just may be able to convince our governement to keep them in food. But then, America has so much food that we waste as much or more than we consume - not to mention that we spend a GREAT deal of fuel, water, and resources to keep people in suguar coated cereal, coffee cakes, donuts, and ..... AND - LET'S not forget how much land in the U.S. is being used to grow tobacco. Do you know that tobacco ruins the soil and it must fallow for some time before other crops can flourish? Which was suppose to have occurred by now becasue after the cigarette corporation lost the the biggest monetary lawsuit EVER, the government paid tobacco farmers an entitlement so they could 'slowly' shift their crops over. BUT even though the lawsuit the Cig Corpt lost included wrongful death and continuous health problems for those who use their product, they were allowed to continue sales. Well those tobacco farmers reaped a ton of money in entitlement only to turn around and begin growing tobacco again because Philip Morris, and the others have discovered a very lucritive internation market - and so our tax dollars (BILLIONS) were wasted and the land is not useful for anything but tobacco, for now. How can we blame tobacco farmers when an acre of tobacco yields anywhere from $100 to $300 dollars more than an acre of corn? the government also controls pricing by paying farmers not to grow crops... they have been doing this for years |
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Edited by
Jess642
on
Thu 04/07/11 05:38 PM
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You can't eat money.
The whole social mentality of get more, have more, be more... ...is steadily showing that get less, have less, be less is the reality. Monoculture foods are not sustainable....and heavily reliant on the oil based industries. Combined with reduced health of soils globally, and a burgeoning population, unpredictable weather patterns, there is a potential for global crisis.....longterm. Blind freddy can see that. We experienced it in a minute way with the recent extreme weather we had here in Queensland.... Extreme flooding across the state impacted on farmland, river systems, industry, transportation....and the largest cyclone to hit australia took out the country's banana crop, and flooded the coal industry's mines... Queensland is one of the largest foodbowls for Australia, and export...not the only, but in the summer season, one of the largest... the impact on the common man was felt harshly....the cupboards were bare, and no way of getting more...(all road/rail/air links were out)... What has come of it, is a renewed interest in taking responsibility for one's self...be it individually, locally, and collectively. People have first hand experienced their own vulnerablitiy when the petrol station ran out of fuel...and no way of replenishing, the supermarket shelves were bare, and their very basic existance was mildly threatened. It was a societal leveller....didn't matter how much money you had....you had nothing to buy. i learnt a long time ago, I am not a participant in the money circle...low income...and had to adjust back to base survival for my family and self...I had to become more sustainable...grow my own food, raise my own animals...I live on a suburban sized block of land....and yet have the beginnings of a food forest, that myself and many of my neighbours eat from. Transition Towns is a great option for the future of humans... |
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You can't eat money. The whole social mentality of get more, have more, be more... ...is steadily showing that get less, have less, be less is the reality. Monoculture foods are not sustainable....and heavily reliant on the oil based industries. Combined with reduced health of soils globally, and a burgeoning population, unpredictable weather patterns, there is a potential for global crisis.....longterm. Blind freddy can see that. We experienced it in a minute way with the recent extreme weather we had here in Queensland.... Extreme flooding across the state impacted on farmland, river systems, industry, transportation....and the largest cyclone to hit australia took out the country's banana crop, and flooded the coal industry's mines... Queensland is one of the largest foodbowls for Australia, and export...not the only, but in the summer season, one of the largest... the impact on the common man was felt harshly....the cupboards were bare, and no way of getting more...(all road/rail/air links were out)... What has come of it, is a renewed interest in taking responsibility for one's self...be it individually, locally, and collectively. People have first hand experienced their own vulnerablitiy when the petrol station ran out of fuel...and no way of replenishing, the supermarket shelves were bare, and their very basic existance was mildly threatened. It was a societal leveller....didn't matter how much money you had....you had nothing to buy. Good post! |
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Edited by
Jess642
on
Thu 04/07/11 05:52 PM
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There are solutions....to almost everything....if one is vulnerable and motivated enough.
A city can create Greenspace food forests, Community gardens, Rooftop gardens, balcony gardens...collective growing....glasshouses...vertical gardens...anyone living in a tent can raise a potted tomato plant!...no excuses...if you don't know how...learn...and if your plants produce more than you require swap with neighbours. It will mean a huge shift in the expectation level of availability, and will mean eating seasonally for all...there has been for a very long time the 50 mile food diet in the UK...you eat locally produced food, in season....all year round. It reduces the transport costs...it creates adaptability in diet...you eat what is available...and the reduction in out of season import or processed foods reduce...all round a win win. |
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Free market, if I grow crops I can sell them for people to eat or to burn in cars and being that I view humans as basterd coated basterds with basterd filling its a no brainer that I would sell it for fuel. |
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Free market, if I grow crops I can sell them for people to eat or to burn in cars and being that I view humans as basterd coated basterds with basterd filling its a no brainer that I would sell it for fuel. isn't someone trying to pass a law where we can't have gardens anymore? i remember a post on here a while back about that... |
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You can't eat money. The whole social mentality of get more, have more, be more... ...is steadily showing that get less, have less, be less is the reality. Monoculture foods are not sustainable....and heavily reliant on the oil based industries. Combined with reduced health of soils globally, and a burgeoning population, unpredictable weather patterns, there is a potential for global crisis.....longterm. Blind freddy can see that. We experienced it in a minute way with the recent extreme weather we had here in Queensland.... Extreme flooding across the state impacted on farmland, river systems, industry, transportation....and the largest cyclone to hit australia took out the country's banana crop, and flooded the coal industry's mines... Queensland is one of the largest foodbowls for Australia, and export...not the only, but in the summer season, one of the largest... the impact on the common man was felt harshly....the cupboards were bare, and no way of getting more...(all road/rail/air links were out)... What has come of it, is a renewed interest in taking responsibility for one's self...be it individually, locally, and collectively. People have first hand experienced their own vulnerablitiy when the petrol station ran out of fuel...and no way of replenishing, the supermarket shelves were bare, and their very basic existance was mildly threatened. It was a societal leveller....didn't matter how much money you had....you had nothing to buy. i learnt a long time ago, I am not a participant in the money circle...low income...and had to adjust back to base survival for my family and self...I had to become more sustainable...grow my own food, raise my own animals...I live on a suburban sized block of land....and yet have the beginnings of a food forest, that myself and many of my neighbours eat from. Transition Towns is a great option for the future of humans... Perhaps we will see many more transformational leaders coming from Australia, as they have witnessed so much and had to adjust as you have mentioned. We seem to have a high regard for keeping public parks and protected forest preserves. But that's like buying things that you only intent to use "for good" or "for company". Every city should have a park BIG enough for a communal garden, there should be animals and all the kids can take turns taking care of them. The town could farm the edges of the forest preserve and have a town farmers market that would reimbuse the town fund and any excess could be used for other community projects the enhance the environment and our lives. But then people would really have to find a work/life balance, but it sure would be worth it. |
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Chevron has been on this for years now, there is a reason why everyone keeps shying away from this plan.
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Edited by
metalwing
on
Thu 04/07/11 08:01 PM
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Free market, if I grow crops I can sell them for people to eat or to burn in cars and being that I view humans as basterd coated basterds with basterd filling its a no brainer that I would sell it for fuel. isn't someone trying to pass a law where we can't have gardens anymore? i remember a post on here a while back about that... And they almost got away with it too! At the last minute an amendment was added to exempt small operators. The Bill Passed with the amendment. Out Of Business by Lee Rogers Rogue Government March 18, 2008 It appears as if the Obama administration is seeking to pursue an agenda that will setup the federal food police. Using the popular formula of proposing phony solutions to problems that are either manufactured or otherwise, Obama has come out stating that we need more regulations to keep our food safe. With this in mind, it is interesting to see legislation entitled HR 875 or the Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009 which has been proposed in the U.S. House of Representatives. This bill uses language so broad and wide reaching that even home gardeners and organic farmers would be subject to the regulation of a new government bureaucracy. The bill appears to be aimed at destroying family farms through federal regulation so that large corporations like Monsanto can consolidate more control over food production in this country. As defined in HR 875, the bill would establish an agency within the Department of Health and Human Services to be known as the Food Safety Administration. This new agency would regulate food safety and be given draconian police powers and regulatory authority. Section 3 of the bill defines what type of establishments would be subject to regulations in this bill. It defines a food production facility as the following. The term ‘food production facility’ means any farm, ranch, orchard, vineyard, aquaculture facility, or confined animal-feeding operation. It defines a food establishment as the following. The term ‘food establishment’ means a slaughterhouse (except those regulated under the Federal Meat Inspection Act or the Poultry Products Inspection Act), factory, warehouse, or facility owned or operated by a person located in any State that processes food or a facility that holds, stores, or transports food or food ingredients. These terms and others defined in the definitions section of the bill are so broadly defined that it would potentially subject home gardeners and organic farmers to many unnecessary government regulations under the guise of keeping the food supply safe. . |
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Edited by
Jess642
on
Fri 04/08/11 01:59 AM
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Our local council is attempting to limit the number of hens you can have....we are not allowed roosters in town... mine has just headed out to a friend's acreage, where he will reside over a flock of 20 hens.
What that means for me, is I now receive as many fertilised eggs to be set by one of my broody hens, as I require..and my solution for the number limitations? I placed another coop in the easement behind the vacant block next door...technically on council's own land!  Wonder what they'll say when the dairy goat arrives....  It would be ridiculous to attempt to limit food growth here, in this region,...mangoes, coconuts, and many other fruit trees are indigenous to the area..not only that....most of our town's councillors grow their own food, raise their own beef cattle, have hens...  Again though, if that became a limitation, then, quite simply, Community Gardens come the fore....there are many working models that are tailor made to each town's own idiosynchrasies, some have communal gardens, and each member receives a share, others have allotments one can rent, others have a combination of both. We have learned to be solution orientated, by not asking permission of burocracy...but rather, asking forgiveness.  (Redy....something you may love to do in your own area is make seed bombs...google it...then go for it....it's amazing to see sunflowers nodding merrily in industrial wasteland, surrounded by basil, rocket, and lettuces...) we call it guerrila gardening..
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Edited by
Jess642
on
Fri 04/08/11 03:08 AM
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But then people would really have to find a work/life balance, but it sure would be worth it. Work/life balance.....if you are producing food that will sustain yourself, your family, or your neighbours...then your requirements for money become less... an interesting factoid...in the 1900's people spent 40% of their income on food....now it is 10%....not because they have become self sufficient, because priorities have shifted to the get more, have more, be more mentality. The basic requirements for survival has been tipped on it's head...now we pay for cars, houses, petrol, utilities, entertainment, clothing, electrical appliances/gadgets, body enhancements...and the dregs of our income is spent on food. Food, clothing, shelter...is it... NOT this year's fashion, this year's hair extensions, fake tan/boobs/face, etc etc, not this year's ego status house or vehicle... By eating locally, growing locally, producing locally, the petrol dollars reduce, little transportation costs...if one adapts a permaculture mindset, the overheads reduce again... so many cultures have done it for milennia...and as soon as they buy into the 'money circle', they think themselves poor. I am food rich, land rich, health rich and happily dollar poor. Redy....do you guys have a verge out the front of your properties?...a space of land...like a small lawn, then a footpath, then the curb, then the road?....here we are supposed to maintain them ourselves...mow lawns growing there, etc...I figured if I have to maintain it, then I get to eat from it...I have a tropical pear, and a tahitan lime tree out there, eggplants, kohl rabi, lettuce, ginger, zucchini, lilly pilly trees, cape gooseberries, citronella scented geraniums, and a gazzillion more to go in....my neighbours pick what they need, when they need it...it took a little conditioning to get them to, now they wander up, pick what they need for dinner, pull a few weeds, drop off food scraps for the hens, receive a dozen eggs a week...and have a merry old chat. Visitors now arrive with gleanings from their gardens...yesterday i received two cucumbers, a handfull of long chillies, a heap of lawn clippings for mulch, and the visitors left with fox tail palm seedlings, eggs, eggplant,rainbow chard, parsley, basil, and various other bits and pieces....we seed swap, we cuttings swap, we plant more than we need...it's all organic...only the henhouse bedding, pre-manured, compost, and various mulches....no sprays..I plant over crowded, so that the bugs only get the outer leaves...and if plants are struggling, they get a seaweed fertilising in liquid form. |
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You can't eat money. The whole social mentality of get more, have more, be more... ...is steadily showing that get less, have less, be less is the reality. Monoculture foods are not sustainable....and heavily reliant on the oil based industries. Combined with reduced health of soils globally, and a burgeoning population, unpredictable weather patterns, there is a potential for global crisis.....longterm. Blind freddy can see that. We experienced it in a minute way with the recent extreme weather we had here in Queensland.... Extreme flooding across the state impacted on farmland, river systems, industry, transportation....and the largest cyclone to hit australia took out the country's banana crop, and flooded the coal industry's mines... Queensland is one of the largest foodbowls for Australia, and export...not the only, but in the summer season, one of the largest... the impact on the common man was felt harshly....the cupboards were bare, and no way of getting more...(all road/rail/air links were out)... What has come of it, is a renewed interest in taking responsibility for one's self...be it individually, locally, and collectively. People have first hand experienced their own vulnerablitiy when the petrol station ran out of fuel...and no way of replenishing, the supermarket shelves were bare, and their very basic existance was mildly threatened. It was a societal leveller....didn't matter how much money you had....you had nothing to buy. Good post! |
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I would have to think the realy rich could flee the country, the moderatly rich would be stuck like the rest of ya. Dont think for a minute the ultra rich do not have options for just about every disaster. They may have....people are resourceful enough...we had boats, and tinnys with out boards for vehicles, kayaks, canoes...all sorts of interesting modes of transport...and possibly if they had commandeered a helicopter, they could have left the stricken areas... Innovation does not come from the mega rich, though....it comes from solution orientated people, who usually were affected most in the situation. And really....how long till their money was useless....here....in my town, it didn't matter how much you wanted to bully your way in for the last can of evaportated milk, it was already ear tagged for a family with young children...at the shelf price....no amount of thousands would have bought it. We're a small village, and our morality is very high, in difficult times. |
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I would have to think the realy rich could flee the country, the moderatly rich would be stuck like the rest of ya. Dont think for a minute the ultra rich do not have options for just about every disaster. They may have....people are resourceful enough...we had boats, and tinnys with out boards for vehicles, kayaks, canoes...all sorts of interesting modes of transport...and possibly if they had commandeered a helicopter, they could have left the stricken areas... Innovation does not come from the mega rich, though....it comes from solution orientated people, who usually were affected most in the situation. And really....how long till their money was useless....here....in my town, it didn't matter how much you wanted to bully your way in for the last can of evaportated milk, it was already ear tagged for a family with young children...at the shelf price....no amount of thousands would have bought it. We're a small village, and our morality is very high, in difficult times. |
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But then people would really have to find a work/life balance, but it sure would be worth it. Work/life balance.....if you are producing food that will sustain yourself, your family, or your neighbours...then your requirements for money become less... an interesting factoid...in the 1900's people spent 40% of their income on food....now it is 10%....not because they have become self sufficient, because priorities have shifted to the get more, have more, be more mentality. The basic requirements for survival has been tipped on it's head...now we pay for cars, houses, petrol, utilities, entertainment, clothing, electrical appliances/gadgets, body enhancements...and the dregs of our income is spent on food. Food, clothing, shelter...is it... NOT this year's fashion, this year's hair extensions, fake tan/boobs/face, etc etc, not this year's ego status house or vehicle... By eating locally, growing locally, producing locally, the petrol dollars reduce, little transportation costs...if one adapts a permaculture mindset, the overheads reduce again... so many cultures have done it for milennia...and as soon as they buy into the 'money circle', they think themselves poor. I am food rich, land rich, health rich and happily dollar poor. Redy....do you guys have a verge out the front of your properties?...a space of land...like a small lawn, then a footpath, then the curb, then the road?....here we are supposed to maintain them ourselves...mow lawns growing there, etc...I figured if I have to maintain it, then I get to eat from it...I have a tropical pear, and a tahitan lime tree out there, eggplants, kohl rabi, lettuce, ginger, zucchini, lilly pilly trees, cape gooseberries, citronella scented geraniums, and a gazzillion more to go in....my neighbours pick what they need, when they need it...it took a little conditioning to get them to, now they wander up, pick what they need for dinner, pull a few weeds, drop off food scraps for the hens, receive a dozen eggs a week...and have a merry old chat. Visitors now arrive with gleanings from their gardens...yesterday i received two cucumbers, a handfull of long chillies, a heap of lawn clippings for mulch, and the visitors left with fox tail palm seedlings, eggs, eggplant,rainbow chard, parsley, basil, and various other bits and pieces....we seed swap, we cuttings swap, we plant more than we need...it's all organic...only the henhouse bedding, pre-manured, compost, and various mulches....no sprays..I plant over crowded, so that the bugs only get the outer leaves...and if plants are struggling, they get a seaweed fertilising in liquid form. Redy....do you guys have a verge out the front of your properties?. Yes in some places - we call it an easment and typically people plant trees in that area, as trees are kind of lacking here. Many homeowner assocations will not allow fruit trees or ornamental crabapple trees "too messy". I live inner city though. We have yards but very small. I live in a duplex or a side-by-side. Before moving in I asked the landlord if I could plant (oh of course) I wonder if he understood what I intended - but I got the ok and I've been composting (not much room so very small) but enough with the good dirt I brought from my old place. (ANd they laughed at me for bringing it. huh.) Just wait till I share my veggies with them. (Redy....something you may love to do in your own area is make seed bombs...google it...then go for it.... I cracked up when I read that. I haven't googled it but .... We have meridians - islands in the middle of the road that separate opposing traffic. People, businesses, anyone can "adopt" a section of meridean and plant it - but it has to be flowers or grass something typically annual. Now for why I cracked up at your message. You can buy a huge bag of flower seeds - I usually get the hummingbird, butterfly mix. Then when I see that someone has prepared their NEW section of meridian for planting (I deposit the seeds there) hahah. So guess what I just did today - I bought 2 big bags of seed - one of them is daisies the other are flowers specifically that attract hummingbirds and butterflys. The meridian in front of my house will be beautiful. Many of us are renters and most do nothing with their yard, I hope they like the flowers - you know how the wind tends to blow those little seeds (or more like I take them there and spread them.) Thanks for all the great ideas - I WILL remember them becasue one of these days I will have a place with a little more room. In the meantime, I'm looking into hydroponics for the basement - but having trouble figureing out inexpensive lighting. |
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Redy...are your car batteries 12 volt?...(ours are, not sure if yours are)...if so...have a hunt around for a cheap car battery, two ould be better....and a cheap dashboard 12 volt solar panel charger...camping stores have the,..
You should also be able to source grow lights that are adaptable to 12 volt...ask at uni one of the tech geeks... then you can burn the lights for your hydroponic...and have the spare battery charging... the initial set up costs should pay for themselves within 6 months....by the food you can grow... sustainable. 
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Edited by
KerryO
on
Sat 04/09/11 06:55 AM
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One of the dirty little secrets of the progressive agenda is population reduction in order to "save" the planet. The "green" movement or as I like to call it "more green in pockets of the leftist elite" has pushed the poorest nations on the brink of a humanitarian catastrophe.. "The inconvenient truth is that the total human population must stop growing and then decrease, if we are to have any chance in the long run of preserving our environment, having a decent level of living in a resource-depleted world, and avoiding an uncontrolled collapse of population like that experienced by some past civilizations." http://maryland.sierraclub.org/newsletter/archives/2008/03/a_003.asp I added this in case anyone wants to dispute my comments.. As opposed to 'dirty little secrets' in the ultra-conservative agenda subscribed to by groups like Quiverfull of keeping women barefoot, pregnant and down on the plantation? From their webpage, this mission statement: Dedicated to providing encouragement and practical help to those who are striving to raise a large and growing, godly family in today's world! Trees never grow into heaven, and growth always has a limit. Especially when the only 'plan' it has is faith in some absent deity making everything all right when reality rears its ugly head. I really think the OP's campaign against progressivism will be hoisted on its own extremist petard in this thread. -Kerry O. |
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The green movement is to keep the rich richer and the poor poorer. While the poor will be regulated on everything we use to a light bulb to what food we get to eat, the rich will do whatever they whenever they want. It's a great way to reduce the population because prices will be to high because the poor will have limited choices on crap goods and will get fined if we don't follow regulation and end up in prison or die because you can't afford to live. Yay green movement!
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Redy...are your car batteries 12 volt?...(ours are, not sure if yours are)...if so...have a hunt around for a cheap car battery, two ould be better....and a cheap dashboard 12 volt solar panel charger...camping stores have the,.. You should also be able to source grow lights that are adaptable to 12 volt...ask at uni one of the tech geeks... then you can burn the lights for your hydroponic...and have the spare battery charging... the initial set up costs should pay for themselves within 6 months....by the food you can grow... sustainable. THANKS again - my next project. |
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