Truly.

If God is love, then to accuse someone of rejecting God is indeed the highest possible insult because that would be the same thing as accusing the person of rejecting love.

How ignorant is that?

Actually I have always been very skeptical, even as a child when I would hear any Bible verse that started with "And God said...."

My first reaction is.. Who says God said that? How did God say that? Was it a voice from the sky or a bush? Who heard it? Is that person who heard it insane, hallucinating, on drugs? How many people heard it? And so on....

If I said that a spaceship landed in my backyard do you think the local newspaper would print that as fact? Of course not. They would question my sanity, my honesty, etc. They would ask who else saw it, they would look for evidence etc.

For people to read scripture written by who knows who... that makes blanket statements like that... and believe it as gospel; ..well need I say more? That's just not intelligent. It makes no sense.

Other people seem to think that because a thing was written 2000 years ago that makes it true. What kind of logical sense is that?

No, I don't "reject God." I do reject ignorance and people who try to get me to believe that which makes no sense.

Exactly, in fact if a man claimed to be Jesus reincarnated today the Christians would be the first people in line demanding that he PROVE his claim.

In fact, there is a man who has a church in Florida who does indeed claim to be Jesus reincarnated. He actually has a church and an entire congregation who believes in him.

Seriously. It's amazing what people will believe.

I wonder what would happen if a wondrous elaborate hologram appeared in the sky of a magnificent being just as described in the Bible of Jesus's return, and then a space ship or craft appeared from no where and a host of angels with ray guns got out how many people would think that this was Jesus returning.

Would they get into the ship?

Or

I wonder what it would take for people to believe, even the real thing, the real Jesus, if he were to come down from the sky and say, "I'm back."

If people are saying that this is really going to happen... for real.. soon, then I wonder if they have given this any thought at all.

Okay now here is the question I would really like some feedback on.

I have been told that in order to "be saved" (Or have everlasting life) I must believe in God and Jesus. God and Jesus are said to be one and the same.

God is said to be LOVE. Jesus represents "LOVE."

I have said that I do believe in Love. I have actually seen a light that communicated "Love" to me directly. It did change my life at that time. (I won't go into what else I got from that experience, that's personal.)

Anyway, suppose I suspended my disbelief about any stories concerning a man/God who incarnated on the earth to bestow the Love message and said, okay I believe. Or I will accept that sacrifice. (The sacrifice being that this God had to incarnate on the earth and live with humans and die in order to enlighten us and bring us the message.)

Then, would that be all that is expected of me? To live a life of Love and compassion? Is that not living for and serving God?

What I mean to ask, if you live for and serve God (LOVE) how important is it that you believe the stories and in the man/god specific to any particular religion? What difference does that actually make? Love is Love. God is God.

Also, and this is important, when Jesus/God/Love returns, doesn't that simply mean that LOVE WILL RETURN TO THE EARTH?

It's not important at all according to what the biblical gospels have Jesus himself saying:


John.12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Jesus is saying here that he does not require than anyone believe in him. Clearly this is not important.


John.12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Well, there you go. You will be judged by the word that Jesus has spoken. And what was that word? It was the message of LOVE. So love is what you will be judged by in the last day. In other words, whether or not you are a loving person will decide your fate.



Bravo Jeannie!

That's exactly what it means.

Don't be looking for any zombies descending on a cloud from the sky. You won't see any. The message is LOVE, and word is LOVE, and when God "returns", all that truly means is that LOVE will return.

You should start your own parish. You have a far better insight into these things than the Christians do.

Jesus didn't come to judge the world. He came to save the world through his blood. He came to give us the new covenant. The next time he comes, he will come to judge the world.

Yes and Jesus' word says deny me before man and I will deny you before the father.

Jesus's word

Matthew 10:33

33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

LOVE.

LOVE IS THE WAY AND THE TRUTH AND THE LIGHT.

Yes it is, that is exactly what Jesus taught. To love EVERYONE more then yourself. To sacrifice making sure other's are taken care of. To give your life up to help another. Jesus taught LOVE. Jesus is love.

verily verily I say unto you...

Do not forsake yourself. Love others as you love yourself.


(That is some of my "inner scripture")

Would it not be greater to hold others higher then oneself? To make sure other's are taken care of even if you have to sacrifice something?

Sacrifice something? Your life perhaps?


That kind of altruism disrespects the true self and the gift of life and freedom you have been given.

One can give his life to and for others if he or she choses, but it is not required, necessary or expected. Others who are not deserving, will abuse that gift.

That said, it is the greatest gift you can give. But don't do it just to "be great."

Do parents not give up their lives for their children? Do they refrain from doing things they once did to ensure a good life for their kids? Do they not work hard to ensure the money to support their kids? That is and example giving one's life up for another. But yes, it is if one wishes.

You can look at it that way if you want. I don't see it that way. Some people feel that their life IS their family. So they have not given up anything. They have just what they wanted.

Others, who accidentally produce children when what they really wanted to do was something way different 'might' give that up for their kids. But that does not have to be the case. Some people just keep on trucking and pursue their goals with their kids in toe. It just slows them down a little.

Its all in your attitude.

Exactly what I said >.< As you said



And before they had that family they had a different life, thus they gave that life up for the life of a family life.

It does not always have to be looked at in that way. If your life changes it is because of your actions, thoughts and decisions.

The smart person will decide what it is they really want their life to be like and always make decisions that will take them in that direction. If they make mistakes that take them in the direction they do not want to go, they need to correct that as soon as possible or end up somewhere they do not want to be.

Yep, those outrageous claims are indeed made in the New Testament. I certainly do not deny that.

This is why I'm certain that most of it must necessarily be either grossly exaggerated superstition, or outright fiction as Jeanniebean believes.

It's either that or believe that our creator is truly insane.

I choose to believe the former rather than the latter.

You seem to view the latter as somehow being sane. I don't.

So like I say, more power to you!

You're attempting to compare a supposedly omnipotent God with mere mortal parents again. All you do when you do that is suggest that God is as helpless and feeble as a mortal human.

Would a parent have their son crucified to save the rest of their children if they didn't have to do that?

Surely no sane person would do such a thing if they weren't forced into such a situation beyond their control.

So for you to compare the crucifixion of Jesus with a "parent" sacrificing his only begotten son to save the rest of his children, then all you're suggesting is that God must be desperate and in a situation where HE has NO OTHER CHOICE, and NO BETTER OPTIONS.

So, if we are to accept your human parent analogy of God, then we have no choice but to believe that you are asking us to believe that God is just as helpless and hopeless as mere mortal humans.

I don't accept that.

If you're going to reduce God to being as desperate and helpless as a mere mortal human parent, then I may as well believe in atheism because the God that you offer would be just as inept and helpless as mere mortal humans.

Besides, that's just a blatant contradiction of the biblical premise that God is all-wise and all-powerful and that with God all things are possible.

I see nothing wise, nor all-powerful in having his only begotten son crucified. Especially if he has a CHOICE to do something wiser and more powerful.

The only excuse for this crucifixion could only be because God could not think up a wiser solution, or did not have the power to make a better solution possible.

So, this is one reason why I find this biblical picture of God to be untenable.

Actually, there are a myriad of these kinds of examples all through the whole biblical cannon. In every case, the only excuses that you have ever come up with is to reduce God to being just as helpless and powerless as a human mortal parent.

That's your so-called 'explanation' every single time, and it doesn't impress. It totally misses that mark every time.

In order to EXCUSE the behavior of this God you must always resort to comparing him with the ineptitude and powerlessness of a mortal human being.

So your so-called "explanations" are not tenable.

And you just keep coming back, over, and over, and over again with these very same lame analogies that simply don't fit the bill.

Absolutely.

In fact, I would have loved to have had a family!

I would have loved to have raised children and been a father. To me that would have been the greatest thing ever and I would not have felt that I had given anything up to have that.

Unfortunately that never came to pass.