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Topic: Neocons Tepid Reaction To Egyption Democracy
willing2 Joined Sun 06/08/08 Posts: 20221	Sat 02/05/11 03:58 PM
We are a Republic Union. I'd much rather it be a Confederate Union. Beats hell out all those yankee and Californicatin' progressive extremist lefties.

Fanta46 Joined Sat 11/11/06 Posts: 29361	Sat 02/05/11 05:23 PM
From the CIA World Fact Book. Constitution-based federal republic; strong democratic tradition

thinkingaboutit09 Joined Fri 01/02/09 Posts: 1370	Sat 02/05/11 11:06 PM
America is not a democracy it is a Republic! A difference without a distinction. The righties appear to insist on this because "democracy" sounds like Democrat and "republic" sounds more like Republican. This would probably not be a very powerful argument for Conservative politics. First off if you don't know the difference then why are you here debating? The assumption I state it for effect is a weak argument! Mob rule is why i mentioned in the context of this thread and to point out that democracy is over used by the media and you regergitated the misrepresentation! Second it is our fault? Is what our fault? I'm having trouble find the precedent for your remarks in the quotes you cited. If you will note i was commenting on a previous quote saying that American policy is to blame for the problems in Egypt!

thinkingaboutit09 Joined Fri 01/02/09 Posts: 1370	Sat 02/05/11 11:15 PM
From the CIA World Fact Book. Constitution-based federal republic; strong democratic tradition This is accuarate, any government in the world today is a hybrid. But if you where to use a word to define America it most certainly would be Republic not Democracy! I was merely pointing out that democracy you find thoughout the world are a far cry of our political system and the media seems to darw a moral equalivalance that is inaccurate IMO!

AdventureBegins Joined Tue 04/10/07 Posts: 7666	Sun 02/06/11 06:39 AM
America is not a democracy it is a Republic! A difference without a distinction. The righties appear to insist on this because "democracy" sounds like Democrat and "republic" sounds more like Republican. This would probably not be a very powerful argument for Conservative politics. First off if you don't know the difference then why are you here debating? The assumption I state it for effect is a weak argument! Mob rule is why i mentioned in the context of this thread and to point out that democracy is over used by the media and you regergitated the misrepresentation! Second it is our fault? Is what our fault? I'm having trouble find the precedent for your remarks in the quotes you cited. If you will note i was commenting on a previous quote saying that American policy is to blame for the problems in Egypt! yep... If you check up on it you will find that the Obama Administration has continued to practice the same type of policies that all other American administrations have practiced... to whit.... 2 billion some odd american dollars to the 'status quo'government in Egypt. 20 million some odd american dollars to the 'opposition' in Egypt. ?... Kinda like selling tanks to Egypt and anti tank missles to Israel back a few years. sometimes I am ashamed of my shortsighted government.

artlo Joined Sat 01/29/11 Posts: 3085	Sun 02/06/11 07:20 AM Edited by artlo on Sun 02/06/11 07:44 AM
The assumption I state it for effect is a weak argument! Mob rule is why i mentioned in the context of this thread I don't know what this means. From the CIA World Fact Book. Constitution-based federal republic; strong democratic tradition As I said, a difference without a distinction. I can see that this difference is really, really, really important to you. It's not to me. wouldn't it be incumbant on YOU to make your case? If you will note i was commenting on a previous quote saying that American policy is to blame for the problems in Egypt! I blame the United States for every bad outcome caused by the propping up of tyrannical foreign regimes. That's how we got Iran.I am totally non-partisan in this criticism, Democratic and Republican administrations, alike. If you want to get involved in the political affairs of foreign countries, then you have to accept responsibility for things you cause. I thought you guys were the "personal resposibilty" people. First off if you don't know the difference then why are you here debating? Assumes facts not in evidence. I'm here because it's fun. why don't you explain the differences that are important to you? I provided definitions for both words. You haven't provided much of anything except noise. This is accuarate, any government in the world today is a hybrid. But if you where to use a word to define America it most certainly would be Republic not Democracy! I wouldn't consider the government of North Korea to be any kind of a hybrid. Nor Somalia, or Zimbabwe. I was merely pointing out that democracy you find thoughout the world are a far cry of our political system Really? would you say that the Government in Germany or France are "a far cry" from the American Government? and the media seems to darw a moral equalivalance that is inaccurate IMO! that's fine. You are perfectly entitled TYO!

AdventureBegins Joined Tue 04/10/07 Posts: 7666	Sun 02/06/11 09:24 PM
America is not a democracy it is a Republic! A difference without a distinction. The righties appear to insist on this because "democracy" sounds like Democrat and "republic" sounds more like Republican. This would probably not be a very powerful argument for Conservative politics. Second it is our fault? Is what our fault? I'm having trouble find the precedent for your remarks in the quotes you cited. National anthem. 'to the republic'... Benjamin Franklin (when asked what the new government was)... 'we have given you a Republic... if you can keep it' aye... We are a republic...

thinkingaboutit09 Joined Fri 01/02/09 Posts: 1370	Sun 02/06/11 10:50 PM
The assumption I state it for effect is a weak argument! Mob rule is why i mentioned in the context of this thread I don't know what this means. From the CIA World Fact Book. Constitution-based federal republic; strong democratic tradition As I said, a difference without a distinction. I can see that this difference is really, really, really important to you. It's not to me. wouldn't it be incumbant on YOU to make your case? If you will note i was commenting on a previous quote saying that American policy is to blame for the problems in Egypt! I blame the United States for every bad outcome caused by the propping up of tyrannical foreign regimes. That's how we got Iran.I am totally non-partisan in this criticism, Democratic and Republican administrations, alike. If you want to get involved in the political affairs of foreign countries, then you have to accept responsibility for things you cause. I thought you guys were the "personal resposibilty" people. First off if you don't know the difference then why are you here debating? Assumes facts not in evidence. I'm here because it's fun. why don't you explain the differences that are important to you? I provided definitions for both words. You haven't provided much of anything except noise. This is accuarate, any government in the world today is a hybrid. But if you where to use a word to define America it most certainly would be Republic not Democracy! I wouldn't consider the government of North Korea to be any kind of a hybrid. Nor Somalia, or Zimbabwe. I was merely pointing out that democracy you find thoughout the world are a far cry of our political system Really? would you say that the Government in Germany or France are "a far cry" from the American Government? and the media seems to darw a moral equalivalance that is inaccurate IMO! that's fine. You are perfectly entitled TYO! okay okay i did not realize you where so far behind the curve! The definition of a political system i am not gonna do! If you are that uneducated there is no point! Example "communism", Is Cuba a communist state? why yes it is, but do they follow every definition of the word communism? Ofcourse not, no country is an exact definition! So saying America is a Republic is an "most like" representation.... basic high school eduacation at this point. Now distiction sir is a matter of education, would you really like for me to give you a history lesson? A democracy that votes in a therocracy and makes freedom of religon illegal in my opinion is not a moral equivilant to Ammerica! So when the media tries to to draw a line of moral equvilance to America i state we are not a democracy "mob rule" is not allowed in our country! A republic has states rights allowing people a choice and representation beyond the Majority. I'm not gonna even gonna go into bill of rights and other differences the American political system has! What you seem to miss in your critism of American foreign policy is what is the alternative? Isolationism? Ofcourse foreign policy is gonna bite us in the * it always will! Always will because it's a guessing game and game you must play unless you are for "stick head and * in sand" foreign policy! The responsabilty is on idealists! Realists know how to play this game divide and conquer idealists like carter and obama play the hope and pray stategy in which i disagree! Yes all three countries you mentioned are hybrids, I stand by that comment and if they are not and an exact definition of a political system please elaborate because I know otherwise. Yes Germany and France are a far cry from the American system! Neither are republics and neither are nationalist countries! Very very Different! America is very unique! We are almost completely a isolated conservative nation! Isreal or Australia are much closer in comparison....France is not even close! Germany has some similarties but still far different! Sorry this is not an explanation problem it's just you are so far behind it's difficult for you to comprehend!

artlo Joined Sat 01/29/11 Posts: 3085	Sun 02/06/11 11:00 PM Edited by artlo on Sun 02/06/11 11:03 PM
I guess I'm just too stupid to understand your rhetoric. You speak a very complex language. If it makes you feel any better, I will henceforth refer to America as a "Republic with a strong democratic tradition. " I can see that this is a very, very importantl issue for you. That should satisfy everybody.

thinkingaboutit09 Joined Fri 01/02/09 Posts: 1370	Sun 02/06/11 11:09 PM
I guess I'm just too stupid to understand your rhetoric. You speak a very complex language. If it makes you feel any better, I will henceforth refer to America as a "Republic with a strong democratic tradition. " I can see that this is a very, very importantl issue for you. That should satisfy everybody. well then don't act as if you didn't understand my point! The media would like to say the democratic Iran is the same as America! It's not and we are not a democracy! You can not make being a christian illegal in America with 99.9% of the vote in America, WHy? Cause we are not a democracy! We have a bill of rights and thats a specific example! Can you see my point? Thats why I state it! We are a Republic and even though Gore got more votes who was named president? Bush, because we are a Republic! It's clearly different!

thinkingaboutit09 Joined Fri 01/02/09 Posts: 1370	Sun 02/06/11 11:15 PM
A perfect example "a perfect examlpe" of how we are not a democracy is the civil rights of the 60's!

artlo Joined Sat 01/29/11 Posts: 3085	Mon 02/07/11 12:03 AM Edited by artlo on Mon 02/07/11 12:04 AM
I think you're really off in SillyWorld, here. Supposedly, pure democracies offer no protection for the individual from the "tyranny of the majority". In that sense there is not a single "democracy" that exists in the world, except perhaps some primative tribes. This is why i am perfectly willing to refer to America, as well as other parliamentary Governments as republics with strong democratic traditions. I can see how vitally important this is to you.

InvictusV Joined Sun 11/23/08 Posts: 5282	Mon 02/07/11 05:01 AM
MCCAIN: Yes. And the other Arab country, Jordan, is — the president has just had to replace the whole government. He wouldn’t be — excuse me, the king, King Abdullah, has had to replace the whole government. This virus is spreading throughout the Middle East. The president of Yemen, as you know, just made the announcement that he wasn’t running again. This, I would argue, is probably the most dangerous period of history in — of our entire involvement in the Middle East, at least in modern times. Israel is in danger of being surrounded by countries that are against the very existence of Israel, are governed by radical organizations. Watch it:http://www.opinion-maker.org/2011/02/neocons-tepid-reaction-to-the-egyptian-democratic-revolution/ One would think the freedom loveing neocons would be the biggest chearleaders of the pro democracy revolution in Egypt. Realy a dictator is being over thrown these are good times Mr MCcain!!! I am shocked he would call a pro democracy revolution a spreading virus. Neo Con policy concerning the middle east is always to do what is necessary to support Israel. So questioning their motives as to why they don't support toppling the regime in Egypt doesn't make sense. If they feel an anti Israel government will take its place that goes against everything they stand for in middle east policy.

Bestinshow Joined Mon 06/01/09 Posts: 5540	Mon 02/07/11 12:44 PM Edited by Bestinshow on Mon 02/07/11 12:45 PM
MCCAIN: Yes. And the other Arab country, Jordan, is — the president has just had to replace the whole government. He wouldn’t be — excuse me, the king, King Abdullah, has had to replace the whole government. This virus is spreading throughout the Middle East. The president of Yemen, as you know, just made the announcement that he wasn’t running again. This, I would argue, is probably the most dangerous period of history in — of our entire involvement in the Middle East, at least in modern times. Israel is in danger of being surrounded by countries that are against the very existence of Israel, are governed by radical organizations. Watch it:http://www.opinion-maker.org/2011/02/neocons-tepid-reaction-to-the-egyptian-democratic-revolution/ One would think the freedom loveing neocons would be the biggest chearleaders of the pro democracy revolution in Egypt. Realy a dictator is being over thrown these are good times Mr MCcain!!! I am shocked he would call a pro democracy revolution a spreading virus. Neo Con policy concerning the middle east is always to do what is necessary to support Israel. So questioning their motives as to why they don't support toppling the regime in Egypt doesn't make sense. If they feel an anti Israel government will take its place that goes against everything they stand for in middle east policy. Pretty much sums up the current situation. Our blind support for Israel has created such a mess. It seems this country lacks the will to be on the side of right and wrong, sure Israel is an ally but there have been many occasions when they have been wrong and we have sided with them. One can make a case that the problembs america has in the middle east is because of Israel.

artlo Joined Sat 01/29/11 Posts: 3085	Tue 02/08/11 12:48 PM
OK, I did some poking around and I think I can offer some undrstanding that will clear up this democracy/republic debate. If you insist on thinking of America as a Republic, then the proper term is "Constitutional Republic". There are many Republics in the world. Iran is a republic, for example. Even Egypt is a republic. Any country that chooses it's leaders through some kind of an election is a republic. Only a Constitutional Republic has protections from the "tyranny of the masses". I like the way this article describes it. (Note that the website is called www.proCONSERVATIVE.net} They provide this section on other constitutional republics. Other Contemporary Constitutional Republics. In addition to the U.S.A., examples of constitutional republics in the world today include the Federal Republic of Germany, the Republic of France, the Republic of Italy, the Federal Republic of Austria, the Swiss "Confederation" (Switzerland), the Republic of Ireland, the State of Israel, the Hellenic Republic (Greece), the Republic of Finland, the Republic of Iceland, and the Republic of Costa Rica. This should make everybody happy. I get to have a label that easily complies with what 90% of the world has come to think of as a democracy, and you guys get to have a label that sounds like "Republican".

heavenlyboy34 Joined Fri 07/04/08 Posts: 17348	Wed 02/09/11 08:55 AM
I don't see any democracy where there's a chance of the Muslim Brotherhood being in power. Which looks like it's gonna happen, thanks to Obama Bin Laden. How is Bin Laden going to affect anything? Noone can even prove he's still alive. (even Benazhir Bhutto said he's dead-see the youtube clip below) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0%2C9171%2C1101020701-265412%2C00.html http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2135473.stm http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/01/18/gen.musharraf.binladen/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg

AdventureBegins Joined Tue 04/10/07 Posts: 7666	Wed 02/09/11 07:39 PM
MCCAIN: Yes. And the other Arab country, Jordan, is — the president has just had to replace the whole government. He wouldn’t be — excuse me, the king, King Abdullah, has had to replace the whole government. This virus is spreading throughout the Middle East. The president of Yemen, as you know, just made the announcement that he wasn’t running again. This, I would argue, is probably the most dangerous period of history in — of our entire involvement in the Middle East, at least in modern times. Israel is in danger of being surrounded by countries that are against the very existence of Israel, are governed by radical organizations. Watch it:http://www.opinion-maker.org/2011/02/neocons-tepid-reaction-to-the-egyptian-democratic-revolution/ One would think the freedom loveing neocons would be the biggest chearleaders of the pro democracy revolution in Egypt. Realy a dictator is being over thrown these are good times Mr MCcain!!! I am shocked he would call a pro democracy revolution a spreading virus. Neo Con policy concerning the middle east is always to do what is necessary to support Israel. So questioning their motives as to why they don't support toppling the regime in Egypt doesn't make sense. If they feel an anti Israel government will take its place that goes against everything they stand for in middle east policy. Pretty much sums up the current situation. Our blind support for Israel has created such a mess. It seems this country lacks the will to be on the side of right and wrong, sure Israel is an ally but there have been many occasions when they have been wrong and we have sided with them. One can make a case that the problembs america has in the middle east is because of Israel. We 'blindly' support Israel... Iran 'blindly' hates Israel... Strange that Iran uses Israel to further its own ambitions... The only Arab group that has any real reason to not want Israel to survive is perhaps the Palistenians... The rest of them are USING that situation just as nations have used each other for thousands of years. I submit to you all that if Iran was to succeed in ridding the earth of Israel they would simply SUBJUGATE Palestine... If Hezbollah were to succeed in controlling that region they would 'purge' a lot of Palestinins under a differing brand of 'oppression'... Either way Palestine would cease to exist... It is in their best interests to make peace with Israel... Without Israel they would not be a viable political entity.

Redykeulous Joined Thu 11/09/06 Posts: 6052	Wed 02/09/11 07:47 PM
America is not a democracy it is a Republic! A difference without a distinction. The righties appear to insist on this because "democracy" sounds like Democrat and "republic" sounds more like Republican. This would probably not be a very powerful argument for Conservative politics. Second it is our fault? Is what our fault? I'm having trouble find the precedent for your remarks in the quotes you cited. National anthem. 'to the republic'... Benjamin Franklin (when asked what the new government was)... 'we have given you a Republic... if you can keep it' aye... We are a republic... Representative Republic

AdventureBegins Joined Tue 04/10/07 Posts: 7666	Wed 02/09/11 07:51 PM
America is not a democracy it is a Republic! A difference without a distinction. The righties appear to insist on this because "democracy" sounds like Democrat and "republic" sounds more like Republican. This would probably not be a very powerful argument for Conservative politics. Second it is our fault? Is what our fault? I'm having trouble find the precedent for your remarks in the quotes you cited. National anthem. 'to the republic'... Benjamin Franklin (when asked what the new government was)... 'we have given you a Republic... if you can keep it' aye... We are a republic... Representative Republic Aye... However I have not seen much actual 'representation' lately... Just a lot of business as usual, renaming of things in an attempt to 'end run' around a lot of newly 'awake' americans, and finger pointing to divert attention away from the 'business as usual'.