We know of approximately 2800 "Gods" who have been worshipped by mankind.....Jesus is just another in a long succession of Gods...

"The one true son of God, healer of the sick,prophet to the world, leader of 13 disciples, sent here to die for our sins and raised on Sunday.Eat of his body and drink of his blood. All praise MITHRA !!!"

"The one true son of God, healer of the sick,prophet to the world, leader of 13 disciples, sent here to die for our sins and raised on Sunday. Eat of his body and drink of his blood. All praise HORUS !!!"

Today's religion will be tomorrow's mythology

It is interesting how fables and imagination add up to "truth"

Yes, it is interesting.

The myth of the dying and resurrecting deity is one of the most prevalent; it exists in most mythoi--with the notable exceptions of Judaism and Islam.

Jesus is but the best known of dying and resurrected deities, and there is nothing new about his life, his death, or his resurrection.

Whether it is mythology or not, there is a great deal of evidence surrounding the gospels and the OT. About 10,000 verified docs, as I recall. I do know for sure that there is more documented evidence supporting the authenticity of the gospels than even The Illiad or The Odyssey.

Horus had three disciples and his mother wasn't a virgin. He didn't die for our sins and he wasn't resurrected on a Sunday. Same kind of story with Mithra, but he was born from a rock. I have no proof that the rock was a virgin or not, I assume some very lonely guy might have explored it's crevasses.

It's important to get your history of ancient religions of historians, not hucksters.

I do agree that there is a great deal of evidence surrounding the gospels and the OT, in terms of flooding, famine, migration of people..etc... the gospels/bible etc were written with some historical truth, to help explain why things happened, but there is zero proof of anything divine in these writings, it is all imaginary, we make this stuff up and some want to believe it, therefore it is true (to them)... again, just nomadic cavemen trying to explain their existence...



as for myths morphing into newer myths:

RESEMBLANCES BETWEEN MITHRA AND CHRIST
1. Both Mithras and Christ were portrayed as young and beardless; both sometimes appeared in the shepherd's role, and both saved mankind by performing sacrifical deeds.

2. Both Mithras and Christ had virgin births in the sense that they were conceived without any sexual union between man and woman. Christ's father was said to be God, while Mithras was said to have had no father or mother, having emerged as an adult from a large rock.

3. Both Mithraism and Christianity celebrated the birth of their god on the winter solstice, the 25th of December according to the Julian calendar. Both featured the sharing of presents, the use of Christmas trees with candles, and nativity scenes that included shepherds attracted by a sacred light. The special importance of this solstice ceremony to Mithraists would be indicated by the name Mithras, which derived from Meitras, which in Greek numerology refers to the number 365, the last day of the solar year at the winter solstice.

4. Both the Old Testament and Mithraic legend told of the first human couple having been created. Mithra supposedly kept a watchful eye over their descendents until Ahriman caused a draught that caused such thirst that they begged Mithra for water.

5. Both told of a major flood, in the case of Mithra through his having shot an arrow into a stone cliff to quench mankind's thirst. Unfortunately, the entire world's population was drowned in a flood produced by the water spout that gushed from the hole his arrow produced. One man alone (a Noah figure borrowed from the earlier Sumerian myth of Atrahasis) was warned in time and could therefore save himself and his cattle in an ark.

6. Both Mithraism and Christianity emphasized mankind's redemption resulting from a sacrificial death followed by the god's ascent to heaven. In the case of Christ, it was the god himself (or his son) who was sacrificed; in the case of Mithra, it was a sacred steer that Mithra sacrificed.

7. Both featured resurrection through sacrifice. Mithraism more obviously drew upon spring equinox fertility myths by depicting Mithra's sacrificial bull with a tail that consisted of sheaves of wheat that were supposedly scattered throughout the world once it was slaughtered. Also, the bull's blood formed the milky way, allowing human souls both to be born and to return to the heavens after death.

8. Both told of a Last Supper linked with the blood sacrifice whose symbolic recreation by eating bread and wine provided salvation for all worshippers. After Mithra killed the bull depicted in Mithraic art, he feasted upon it with the Sun God and other companions before ascending to the heavens in the sun god's chariot. The sequence was slightly different in the New Testament: Christ's Last Supper necessarily preceded his crucifixion rather than following it, after which he ascended to heaven.

9. Both emphasized purification through baptism, Mithraists by washing themselves in the blood of sacrificial oxen. While dying oxen bled to death on lattice floors built over their heads, initiates both drank and washed themselves with the blood that dripped on them.

10. Both featured secret temples located underground. For Christians it was a temporary expedient to avoid persecution, but for Mithraists it became a permanent institution, each small chapel, called a Mithraeum, having seated no more than fifty worshippers and having been constructed to point from east to west. Rounded ceilings were painted blue and imbedded with gemstones. There were no windows except for a few chapels in which tiny holes in the ceiling that had been bored to let in the light of certain stars at particular times of the year.

11. Both held Sunday to be sacred.

12. Both encouraged asceticism. Mithraists were expected to resist sensuality and to abstain from eating certain foods.

13. Both emphasized charity. Mithra was identified as the god of help who protected his worshippers, whatever their tribulations in life.

14. Last and probably least, both emphasized a rock, Mithra having been born from one and the Vatican having been built on one.


RESEMBLANCES BETWEEN HORUS AND CHRIST:

1. Horus born of a virgin.(Horus was born to the goddess Isis. Isis was impregnated by divine fire.)
<> Jesus born of a virgin.

2. The foster father of Horus was Seb or Seph. <> Jesus was fostered by Joseph.

3. Horus was of royal descent. <> Jesus was of royal descent.

4. Horus birth accompanied by three solar deities [star gazers] who followed by the morning star of Sirius bearing gifts. <> Jesus birth accompanied by three wise men [Zoroastrian star gazers] who followed by a star “in the east” bearing gifts.

5. The birth of Horus announced by angels. <> The birth of Jesus announced by angels.

6. Herut tried to murder the infant Horus. <> Herod slaughtered every first born in an attempt to kill Jesus the forthcoming messiah.

7. Horus is baptized at age 30 by Anup the Baptiser at a river. <> Jesus is baptized at age 30 by John the Baptist at a river.

8. Horus resists temptation by the evil Sut [Sut was to be the precursor for the Hebrew Satan] on a high mountain. <> Jesus resists temptation by Satan on a high mountain.

9. Horus had 12 followers. <> Jesus had 12 disciples.

10. Horus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water. <> Jesus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water.

11. Horus raised someone from the grave [his father Osiris] <> Jesus raised Lazarus [notice the name similarity] from the grave. Lazarus is short for Elasarus – the “us” on the end is romanized. Elasarus was derived from “El-Asar” which was the name given to Osiris.

12. Horus was buried and resurrected in the city of Anu. <> The place Bethany mentioned in John was a derivative of the words “Bet” and “Anu” which translates “the house of Anu”. The ‘y’ on the end of bethany is interchangeable with the letter ‘u’.

13. Horus was killed by crucifixtion. <> Jesus was crucified.

14. Horus was accompanied by two thieves at the crucifixtion. <> Jesus was crucified with two thieves.

15. Horus was buried in a tomb at Anu. <> Jesus was buried in a tomb located in Bethany [Bet-Anu].

16. Horus was resurrected after 3 days. <> Jesus was “said” to resurrected after over a period of three days.

17. The resurrection of Horus was announced by three women. <> The resurrection of Jesus was announced by three women.

18. Horus was given the titel KRST which means “anointed one” <> Jesus was given the title Christ [Christos] meaning “anointed one”



19. Horus was considered the Good Shepherd amongst other names identified as a falcon to watch over shepherds, flocks and other grazing cattle. <> Jesus was called the Good Shepherd amongst other names the same for Horus.

20. Horus is associated with fish and is linked with the star sign Pisces. <> Jesus is also associated with fish [and fishermen] and has Pisces as his star sign.

Nearly every single thing you just posted is false. Isis was impregnated by her husband Osiris who used a giant gold penis she carved to get her pregnant, because his had been cut off and feed to a catfish.

Horus didn't have a foster father, but he did have a grandfather who was named Seb.

In the actual myths of Horus, there is no mention of three wise men or stars or any of the junk. There weren't three wise men in the story of Jesus either. There were "wise men" and three different gifts mentioned. There could have been 2 or 10 wise men, there is no telling.

Horus's birth wasn't announced and the Egyptians didn't believe in angels.

Horus was never baptized and there is no mention of anyone named "Anup the Baptiser".

The stuff you are saying all originated with Gerald Massey, who was a fraud and a liar. He couldn't read or speak Eqyptian and no Egyptologist has ever agreed with his silly garbage. You are barking up the wrong tree here, if you want to actually know the stories of Jesus and Horus (which are very very different), then you need to go to legit sources, not a fraud hoaxster who was preying on the uneducated.

Hercules fits better... His mother was human his father was god and his mother WAS a virgin (till she was hoodwinked by a god).

It seems the one thing these characters have in common:
All have mythological lives.....Horus, Jesus, Hercules etc...
All imaginary stories :)

Yeah, you witness one effing resurrection in front of you in the flesh, and you've witnessed 'em all.

(They used to say this about naked women back in the sixties. Like in "The Graduate": "Sonny, why you wanna intercourse my daughter? Go get a haircut and a job, and you'll see that she looks naked exactly like her mother.")

Zeitgeist REFUTED & DEBUNKED! (Religious Portion)

Awww, you gotta let them have their own fantasies Spider.

It makes some people feel good to bash another's belief, even if they use fallacies and outright lies.

But anyways, I think the equal sign caused a problem in your url so I'll try it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFI6m6Icav4

this is one of the few things in the bible that can be explained...

if a flood of say an area of 100 square miles happened back then, whats to stop the people back then of thinking everyone died? it take weeks for them to find anyone alive walking or swimming around, and it would look like to them that the whole earth flooded. and they have proof that the black sea wasn't always there, that it did flood about 1000-3000 years ago. they have even found villages at the bottom of the sea.

Apparently there are a lot of people who desperately need to believe in the story of Jesus. Without it they feel hopeless and lost. They simply don't have the ability to believe in spirituality unless they have a story they can point to that claims that such things true. So to take the biblical story away from them would destroy their faith in a "God" and a potential spiritual afterlife. They absolutely need to have a story. And since the story of Jesus has been so heavily supported by so many organized churches and establishments over the centuries, that's the story that carries the most "believability". After all, you can easily find someone who will support these stories with very strong conviction. The fact that virtually no two people agree on the details (even the authors of the actual stories) doesn't dissuade people from clinging to them just the same.


That, in and off itself, is not a bad thing. In fact, if that could be done in a positive way that wasn't intrusive to other people it would be just fine. There's nothing wrong with someone believing in Peter Pan and Never-Never Land, or Alice in Wonderland, or whatever fairytale they so choose.

However, it becomes extremely problematic when these people who desperately need to believe in these stories actually use them to create and incite social animosity. And unfortunately that's precisely what these religions do.

They end up using the Jesus Story as a battering ram to accuse non-believers of refusing to embrace "God", etc. And this can, and has historically, caused a great amount of social injustice and atrocities to be carried out in the name of this "Jesus". Or even out of "Fear" of the Satan who is every bit as important to these myths as Jesus is. In fact, without Satan there would be no need for Jesus, so in a sense Satan is actually the star of the show in these fables. Even though he is being portrayed as the villain. Without him there would be nothing to be 'saved' from and Jesus would be a moot character in the plot.

In fact, just look around right now.

What do you see?

You see a GENERAL RELIGION discussion forum where the only conversations that ever take place are arguments about whether or not the Jesus story has any credibility.

Why? Because it's THAT BIG OF AN ISSUE in our society today.

The people who believe in it are absolutely hell-bent on trying to convert everyone else into believing it.

And the people who do not believe in it have very serious concerns about the negative impact it has on humanity, and rightfully so.

Finally, and this is really the most worthy point of all. Even if the people who desperately need to believe in this story were to convinced everyone on planet Earth to accept these stories and support them, that would only be the beginning of even greater animosity and disruption to society.

Because the truth is that no two believers in these stories ever agree on the details. Historically we've seen the Catholics and Protestant physically throwing stones and punches at each other over the differences in their beliefs.

Many Protestants today even refute "Catholicism" claiming that it doesn't even represent "True Christianity".

So the first war that would need to be fought if the whole world become "Christian" would be the war between the Catholics and Protestants.

Will we have ONE POPE, or should we have a whole lot of diverging and arguing Paper Popes like the protesting Protestants have?

If Catholicism won that war we might have some chance at peace for the simple fact that everyone would need to bow down and worship the single POPE as the only person who can speak for GOD.

And in that sense Christianity would have finally reached it's goal of having a single authoritative "Voice of God" that everyone must obey.

On the other hand, if the Protestants won that war, then we'd never have any peace because from there it would just deteriorate into a massive chaotic war of the "Paper Popes".

So in terms of being a stable religion for humanity. Catholicism is the only version of Christianity that even has a shot at that position. And you can rest assured that the protesting Paper Popes are never going to stand for that. They are never going to bow down on their knee and confess that the Catholic Pope speaks for Jesus.

Why not?

Because THEY WANT THAT POSITION!!!

In the meantime the poor atheists and people of other religions or spiritual faiths get brushed aside like they don't even COUNT!

But those people are CHILDREN of this universe TOO! They are Children of Mother Earth and Sol. And they have just as much right to be here and have a voice on the behavior of humanity too!

As long as the Christians (especially the Paper Popes of Protestantism) demand that only they hold the TRUE interpretations of the Word of God and Jesus, then the religion has nowhere to go but straight to the proverbial hell.

Because at that point it really becomes nothing more than a religion of Paper Popes and doesn't even have anything at all to do with Jesus or any God. All it has to do with at that point is some Paper Pope trying to become the CATHOLIC POPE without the Catholicism to support him.

Protestantism can never truly become what the Paper Popes lust for it to be.

It's never going to happen, no matter how much they whine and cry and proselytize. They are never going to achieve their ultimate egotistical Goal of becoming the imaginary SINGLE PAPER POPE whom everyone bows down to as having the "Only True Interpretation of the Story and Words of Jesus" like as if they have somehow been unofficially recognized as the "Catholic Pope" without Catholicism.

But that is ultimately what they lust for. That's what ultimately drives their quest and their impossible dream that will never come to pass.

They lust to be recognized as the spokesperson for Jesus!

You got it all wrong. Again as I've said in another thread, NO ONE has absolute knowledge of the scriptures. Not I, not you, not bill, not george, not the pope, not any ONE person. That is why we are to commune with one another and teach one another being open minded enough to accept other interpretations that fit better and or make more sense.

John 8:24, "I said therefore unto you,
that ye shall die in your sins:
for if ye believe not that I am he,
ye shall die in your sins."

eek... so now I have to worship john?

John didn't say that, so what would worshiping John have anything to do with anything?

Quote John 8:24...

Does not say Jesus 8.24; Says John.

John wrote it.

You write many things you attritbute to christ. That does not mean they are true.

So biographies and other documentations have no factual grounds to you I'm going to assume. That is all this is, the different books in the bible are different biographies of whom ever the book is about. So through my discussions with you, I've gathered that we should throw out all history books and now I've learned we are to throw out all biographies.

I personally don't believe that Jesus ever said any such thing, assuming he even existed at all.

Moreover, if Jesus actually did say such a thing, then I do indeed believe that he was a lunatic just like all the other religious nut cases.

There is no way that anyone is ever going to convince me that a supposedly all-wise and righteous God would ever set things up to where a mere belief in unsubstantiated gossip could determine the fate of a soul.

Such a system if "judgment" would indeed be totally unrighteous IMHO.

Therefore, it cannot be the work of any supposedly righteous God.

It's that simple.

It makes no sense to take an ignorant concept and try to apply it to a supposedly 'all-wise' being.

There is no wisdom in 'judging' people based on whether or not they believe in extremely questionable hearsay rumors. Or even from an extremely questionable person in person. Clearly there were far more people who did not recognize the divinity of Jesus than those who did. For if that were the case, the crucifixion could have never occurred.

Thus there's truly no rational sane reason to believe in Jesus.

So that translates into a God who is 'judging' the fate of people of no sane rational reason.

Clearly no sane rational God would ever set up such an ignorant and failed system of redemption that threatens to cast souls into hell for mere disbelief in rumors.

The mere fact that this fables make these sorts of insane claims is itself proof positive that these things cannot have come from a sane and reasonable God.

It's clearly a man-made dogma that tries to brainwash people into worshiping the religion lest they DIE for nothing more than a simple disbelief in the religion.

Where did the whole concept of sin and righteousness go?

Now this religion is condemning people for merely not believing in the dogma!

Sin vs. Righteousness goes right out the window.