God looses nothing, it's those that did not receive the gift of heaven that looses. It's not God that turns away from us, it's us that turns away from God. You continously try to find a scapegoat and or something/someone to blame. Why? It's not God's fault people disobey, it's not God's fault people do immoral actions. It's those people's fault for choosing to have done such actions. Has NOTHING to do with God, it all boils down to you.

Yes this earth may have had all those imperfections before we were here, very true. But there was no imperfections in the Garden of Eden where we originally were put. There are diseases and imperfections in this earth for punishment. If there was NOTHING bad on this earth, this earth would just as heaven, would it not be? So yes it is mans fault we have to live with imperfections, diseases, and others for we got ourselves kicked out of the garden of eden. Nothing has been exposed to be false, science and knowledge they claim to be fact changes all the time. So nothing proven false, merely seen as false. Science doesn't know ALL, they find new stuff all the time and or find things they once thought to be true ended up actually false and vise versa.

The crusades, the witch burnings, and other are not of God. Those are exactly what our father has told us not to do. That all involves violence and our father has told us to be loving, patient, and submissive. Those actions are no where near that. So again nice try but no cigar. It is THOSE people's actions, and just that THOSE peoples actions. They are not of our father in any way.

It's not about blame Cowboy. A creator that loses the vast majority of souls that it creates is an extremely inefficiency creator. A parent who loses the vast majority of their children would be a lousy parent. Either that, or they would be propagating really bad genes.

If we're created in the image of God and we're that bad, that this doesn't such much for the God at all.

So it's not about blame. It's just an observation that this mythology is a tale about an extremely inept creator.




So in other words, you're saying that God already screwed up creation before we even got here?

So much for a 'perfect' God who saw that his creation was "good".

This flies in the face of the story. Sorry. No cigar as you say.



But that's not true Cowboy. The "Father" in this mythology most certainly did teach us to murder heathens in his name, and not to suffer a which to live.

You seem to be confusing Jesus with the "Father" in this religion.

Jesus renounced the religion. The very religion that supported his own crucifixion as a blasphemer.

This mythology ruined Jesus when they nailed him to the Old Testament by trying to claim that he was the "only begotten son" of the God of the Old Testament.

I realize that you would love to make a brand new religion out of Jesus, but that really can't be done. Jesus, in the Christian mythology cannot stand on his own feet. He only has any clout if he's placed on the shoulders of the God of the Old Testament. Take that away from him and you've got precisely what I suggest; that Jesus was indeed a mortal man who simply rejected the evil ways of the Old Testament.

I'm sure you would love Buddhism and Eastern Mysticism if you studied it with the same passion that you give to the Hebrew mythologies. You would soon discover that it contains all of the things that you love about Jesus and it renounces all of the things that you hate about the God of Abraham.

It's truly a shame that your stuck with a conflicting religion that uses Jesus as an excuse to support the very things that you obviously don't care for yourself.

You obviously don't like the God of the Old Testament and his ways. If it wasn't for Jesus you clearly wouldn't like this God at all. You passionately reject the things that had been taught in the Old Testament and want to distance yourself from them as far as possible.

But you can never save Jesus from the Old Testament God because this mythology requires that Jesus stands on the shoulders of that God.

Recognizing that Jesus was indeed a Buddhist is really the only way to save Jesus.

A creator that loses the vast majority of souls that it creates is an extremely inefficiency creator.

So in other words, you're saying that God already screwed up creation before we even got here?

So much for a 'perfect' God who saw that his creation was "good".

But that's not true Cowboy. The "Father" in this mythology most certainly did teach us to murder heathens in his name, and not to suffer a which to live.

Jesus renounced the religion. The very religion that supported his own crucifixion as a blasphemer.

I realize that you would love to make a brand new religion out of Jesus, but that really can't be done. Jesus, in the Christian mythology cannot stand on his own feet. He only has any clout if he's placed on the shoulders of the God of the Old Testament. Take that away from him and you've got precisely what I suggest; that Jesus was indeed a mortal man who simply rejected the evil ways of the Old Testament.

I'm sure you would love Buddhism and Eastern Mysticism if you studied it with the same passion that you give to the Hebrew mythologies. You would soon discover that it contains all of the things that you love about Jesus and it renounces all of the things that you hate about the God of Abraham.

You obviously don't like the God of the Old Testament and his ways. If it wasn't for Jesus you clearly wouldn't like this God at all. You passionately reject the things that had been taught in the Old Testament and want to distance yourself from them as far as possible.

You must be insecure bro, you continuously use scapegoats. How is it God's fault you do not believe?

It has absolutely nothing to do with insecurity or scapegoats. Where do you come up with such ideas?

It would indeed be "god's fault" if the Bible were truly the word of God. Because the Bible portrays God to be utterly stupid.

This God supposedly instructs the Hebrews to kill anyone who disagrees with his word, and that they should place no other Gods before him. Then he turns around and sends his son into this same crowd to disagree with his word and claim that no one can get to God except through him?

That, my friend is utterly insane, IMHO. Therefore if the biblical god were real it would have just conveyed to me that it, too, is utterly insane.

Should I believe that the creator of this universe is utterly insane?

I think not.

Therefore, if the bible truly was the "Word of God" then it would be entirely God's fault that I reject the book as being wise or divine.

But, of course, any real God couldn't be so stupid. Therefore the solution to the paradox is quite simple. Just recognize that the bible is man-made myths and it's no longer a problem. They don't represent the word of any God, and therefore the problem goes away.

It only remains a problem if you insist the the Bible is the "Word of God".

So it's not a problem for me at all. I simply recognize that the myths are clearly made-man baloney that wasn't even very well thought out at all. Then there's no longer any problem.

This God supposedly instructs the Hebrews to kill anyone who disagrees with his word, and that they should place no other Gods before him. Then he turns around and sends his son into this same crowd to disagree with his word and claim that no one can get to God except through him?

Wow,,,THANKS for the slaughter of my question guys...


Let me break this down some more OK,,,

Lets say that it was YOU Abra,, or YOU Cowboy,,,that I had met you and BOTH OF YOU,,,talked about Christ in such a way that HE WAS VERY MUCH LIVED FOR SOLELY IN YOUR LIFE AND HEART....OK,,,OK,,

NOW,,,,,I learn through you that YOU Drink to much and when YOU DO,,YOU
PUT HIM DOWN THROUGH ALL YOUR ACTIONS...Swearing, BADLY!, Talking TRASH about
women in the worst degree, and sinning away everything GOD TELLS US NOT TO DO.

NOW,,,,,,,,,,,,,WHEN its something that is so farrrrrrr away from how you live when sober,,,,,,,,,its like AC-DC,,,,,,,so IT RIPS FROM WITHIN YOU
to have to KNOW YOUR LIKE THAT,,,,,,,,,,,

Now,,,,,,,,,,what WOULD A GOOD CHRISTIAN FRIENDTO YOU DO?????

There,,,,hows that for a BETTER question about this...?

A good strong following Christian wouldn't get drunk in the first place. God has told us not to.

Correction, MAN has said it. Not to say I endorse being drunk either cause I don't, but the Bible is a book Man made out to be God's, not God's itself.

A good strong following Christian wouldn't get drunk in the first place. God has told us not to. And secondly if one did this, his actions while not drunk would be a lie and or in vein. It's called witnessing. If one is going to preach the word, then one needs to live the word. One is to lead by example.

OK,,,so BECAUSE THEIR NOT A GOOD CHRISTIAN IN "YOUR THOUGHTS", I should turn from them and WALK AWAY????
THATS NOT "ME" BEING A GOOD CHRISTIAN" IN MY THOUGHTS"??

OK,,,so BECAUSE THEIR NOT A GOOD CHRISTIAN IN "YOUR THOUGHTS", I should turn from them and WALK AWAY????
THATS NOT "ME" BEING A GOOD CHRISTIAN" IN MY THOUGHTS"??

So tell me out there in this Christian net work of living...

If YOU felt devinely pushed to help another person to be a better person with God and walk more in His light,,,,,,,would YOU TRY,,and help?

Would you REALLY TRY and help?

WOULD YOU DO ALL THAT IT TAKES WITHIN YOUR BEST TRY?

Or,would you try a little and let it go?

Or try a little hard and then let go?

I'm searching my heart here within God's voice of feeling HIM wanting me to.

But how far,,,to help,,,would be your part to do?

I KNOW,,,everyone is different,,,wink..YES,,,but whats YOUR REAL, on this?

I was inspired to ask,,,,,as I feel lost as to how much..to try?

It's not about blame Cowboy. A creator that loses the vast majority of souls that it creates is an extremely inefficiency creator. A parent who loses the vast majority of their children would be a lousy parent. Either that, or they would be propagating really bad genes.

If we're created in the image of God and we're that bad, that this doesn't such much for the God at all.

So it's not about blame. It's just an observation that this mythology is a tale about an extremely inept creator.




So in other words, you're saying that God already screwed up creation before we even got here?

So much for a 'perfect' God who saw that his creation was "good".

This flies in the face of the story. Sorry. No cigar as you say.



But that's not true Cowboy. The "Father" in this mythology most certainly did teach us to murder heathens in his name, and not to suffer a which to live.

You seem to be confusing Jesus with the "Father" in this religion.

Jesus renounced the religion. The very religion that supported his own crucifixion as a blasphemer.

This mythology ruined Jesus when they nailed him to the Old Testament by trying to claim that he was the "only begotten son" of the God of the Old Testament.

I realize that you would love to make a brand new religion out of Jesus, but that really can't be done. Jesus, in the Christian mythology cannot stand on his own feet. He only has any clout if he's placed on the shoulders of the God of the Old Testament. Take that away from him and you've got precisely what I suggest; that Jesus was indeed a mortal man who simply rejected the evil ways of the Old Testament.

I'm sure you would love Buddhism and Eastern Mysticism if you studied it with the same passion that you give to the Hebrew mythologies. You would soon discover that it contains all of the things that you love about Jesus and it renounces all of the things that you hate about the God of Abraham.

It's truly a shame that your stuck with a conflicting religion that uses Jesus as an excuse to support the very things that you obviously don't care for yourself.

You obviously don't like the God of the Old Testament and his ways. If it wasn't for Jesus you clearly wouldn't like this God at all. You passionately reject the things that had been taught in the Old Testament and want to distance yourself from them as far as possible.

But you can never save Jesus from the Old Testament God because this mythology requires that Jesus stands on the shoulders of that God.

Recognizing that Jesus was indeed a Buddhist is really the only way to save Jesus.

Abra, you continually take bible terms and events out of context. And you presume things about Christ and God that are not true. I don't like to assume that your intentions are to distort the Word of God nor to deliberately turn seekers away from His Truth.
But, then...

I give my honest views.

That's all I can do.

If there is something wrong with honesty then I don't know what to tell you.

I will be the first to confess that I find this religion to be unhealthy for humanity. I personally feel that it is unhealthy on many levels.

I fully support the moral teachings that are typically associated with the teachings of Jesus. I have said so many times. I have also pointed out that Jesus basically taught the same moral values as are taught in Mahayana Buddhism. In fact, I hold that it's impossible to following the moral teachings of Jesus, or Mahayana Buddhism, without simultaneously satisfying the other. And I fully support the moral values of Buddhism.

Why do I favor Buddhism over the biblical picture? Because, IMHO, the biblical picture carries with it many unhealthy notions from the Old Testament that are carried over into the New Testament, especially via the writings of Paul.

As you probably already know, I also don't support the idea of a God who is appeased by blood sacrifices, or would in any way be associated with them willingly as part of his "official religion".

I also disagree with the whole mentality that punishment should be endorsed as a means of teachings that even "God" uses.

To me that just supports a level of ignorance that we can do without.

Someone wrote Einstein a letter once suggesting that God should punish the English. This was Einstein's reply:

"Why do you write to me ‘God should punish the English’? I have no close connection to either one or the other. I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of His children for their numerous stupidities, for which only He Himself can be held responsible; in my opinion, only His nonexistence could excuse Him." - Albert Einstein

So clearly I'm not alone in my views of the character of the "god" that is portrayed in the Biblical stories.

I agree with Einstein. If people are as stupid as they are, it can only be because God gave them that level of mentality in the first place. The vast majority of so-called 'sins' are probably committed far more from pure and utter stupidity than they are form the calculated deliberate plans of geniuses. Not to imply that intelligent people can't have evil plans, but clearly stupidity is the culprit far more often than a deliberate premeditated desire to do something wrong.

If being stupid is a sin, then we're all sinners, but again, who's fault could that possible be but the creator's? We even speak of intelligent people as being "GIFTED".

So God only gives the gift of intelligence to a few select humans? Can it be any wonder then that he's losing the vast majority of souls that he creates? He's not giving them all equal opportunity.

And to make things worse, this religion has this God condemning "good people", like myself, for simply not believing in these absurd stories.

I really have no choice in the matter. I'd have to lie to myself and to God to pretend that I actually believe this nonsense. I cannot possible claim to believe in these stories even if I wanted to, they are utterly absurd, IMHO.

Einstein said that same thing:

"I cannot accept any concept of God based on the fear of life or the fear of death or blind faith. I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him I would be a liar." - Albert Einstein

The only way I could claim to believe in the biblical picture of God would be to lie about it.

I have no CHOICE but to be HONEST.

Besides what good would it do to pretend to believe in a mythology when in fact I don't believe it. At best I might appease the judgmental Christians. That's about it.

And that brings me to one of my strongest arguments. This God would necessarily half to accept me and my non-belief, because I'm being HONEST about it and refusing to be dishonest about.

What kind of a God would condemn HONESTY?

That makes no sense at all.

And I HONESTLY feel that any God who would set up a religion that has the focal point of the religion on a bloody crucifixion as the only way to salvation would necessarily be insane, unwise, and potentially even sadistic.

In my honest opinion that's just sicker than sick.

Don't give me this crap that it's the greatest act of "love" that's utter nonsense. It's a perversion of LOVE! There's nothing sane about it, again, in my HONEST opinion.

It's a false religion. Face it. It's ancient mythology no different from Zeus. The Old Testament was just more of the same. The New Testament, is either a totally fictitious made up fable, or it's based on the life and unfortunate crucifixion of some mortal man who probably did try to teach sanity to a people who were still STONING each other to death in the name of a God.

He tried to renounce all the bad stuff and replace it with love, understanding and forgiveness. It was unfortunate that he was crucified in such a brutal way (assuming that he actually was). I'm sure he did not plan for that to happen. Nor was it the desire or plan of any "God".

It was a horrible thing that would quite naturally set many rumors into motion. In fact, there were many different rumors back then. The biblical "gospels" that survived were simply the ones that were written down and 'enforced' by sword point to be accepted as the "Only True Word of God".

And unfortunately that's what we got stuck with today.

I don't renounce Jesus or his teachings. On the contrary, I believe he taught the moral values of Mahayana Buddhism and if you follow those moral values you will fulfill everything that was taught by Jesus.

Do you honestly believe that Jesus and God (even if they actually exist as the Christians believe), would be so CRUEL and heartless to renounce GOOD PEOPLE just because they rejected violence in favor of something far more SANE?

You'd have to believe that God truly is sadistic to believe that.

Surely no decent divine being is going to condemn anyone for not believing in violent bloody stories. That's ridiculous. Especially if those same people are seeking moral guidance and righteousness through Buddhism, Wicca, or whatever. It doesn't really matter. If they are seeking GOD and seeking Goodness then that can't be bad.

This idea of a God who will just ruthlessly condemn anyone who refuses to accept the bloody gory tales of the Bible and prefers to seek a wiser and more loving picture of God is itself an utterly absurd notion.

This is why the Bible cannot possibly be true. At least not in every detail verbatim, because it has God condemning non-believers if you accept it in detail and verbatim.

And that is insane and makes no good sense at all.

So at the very best it's got to contain at least some mistakes and falsehoods. And once that's recognized, then which parts should be believed, and which parts shouldn't?

It's a lost cause if not taken verbatim, and it's a lost cause if taken verbatim.

That's my HONEST conclusion.

Therefore, just toss it aside, and if you like the morals of Jesus look into Mahayana Buddhism, it's the same moral values without all the religious bigotry and gory bloody sacrifices.

I'm not trying to sell Buddhism either. I don't even consider myself to be a "Buddhist" exactly. I'm just a human.

But I will leave you with one last quote from Albert Einstein:

"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism." - Albert Einstein

Don't let the reference to "scientific needs" bother you. All he means by that is that Buddhism is a religion that isn't in conflict with anything we know about nature.

I'm not one to support any "organized religion", and so I'm not supporting Buddhism is that sense. But as a personal spiritual philosophy I would highly recommend it to anyone. Especially if they like the moral values that Jesus taught.

Although, again, there many different versions of Buddhism. As with all religions and philosophies things evolve. The Buddhism that is probably the most closely related to the things that Jesus taught would be Mahayana Buddhism. I wouldn't recommend something like "Zen Buddhism" simply because Zen Buddhism is a more modern version of Buddhism that picked up a lot of concepts from Taoism, and has evolved to become an almost glorified form of "atheism".

So if you're looking for something that reflects the type of "God" that Jesus most likely had in mind, you should look into Mahayana Buddhism it's an older version of Buddhism and retains a more 'spiritual' view of reality. Like I say, newer versions of Buddhism have become more like Taoism.

If being stupid is a sin, then we're all sinners, but again, who's fault could that possible be but the creator's? We even speak of intelligent people as being "GIFTED". whoa

Abra, You CONTINUOUSLY try to find a scape goat. God didn't make us smart, didn't make us dumb. Again we have free will to do as we wish. You have the free will to go out and study/learn anything and everything you wish. You can use your will to become the most intelligent man that ever existed. Stupidity is a choice, it's not something "built" into us. Of course we are born dumb, we don't know anything when we are born. It is what we wilfully choose to study through our lives which makes us smart or leaves us at the level of dumb.

Wow,,,THANKS for the slaughter of my question guys...


Let me break this down some more OK,,,

Lets say that it was YOU Abra,, or YOU Cowboy,,,that I had met you and BOTH OF YOU,,,talked about Christ in such a way that HE WAS VERY MUCH LIVED FOR SOLELY IN YOUR LIFE AND HEART....OK,,,OK,,

NOW,,,,,I learn through you that YOU Drink to much and when YOU DO,,YOU
PUT HIM DOWN THROUGH ALL YOUR ACTIONS...Swearing, BADLY!, Talking TRASH about
women in the worst degree, and sinning away everything GOD TELLS US NOT TO DO.

NOW,,,,,,,,,,,,,WHEN its something that is so farrrrrrr away from how you live when sober,,,,,,,,,its like AC-DC,,,,,,,so IT RIPS FROM WITHIN YOU
to have to KNOW YOUR LIKE THAT,,,,,,,,,,,

Now,,,,,,,,,,what WOULD A GOOD CHRISTIAN FRIENDTO YOU DO?????

There,,,,hows that for a BETTER question about this...?

Your entitled to your views.

I disagree.

Albert Einstein disagrees.

In fact, I'm certain that modern medical professionals will disagree with what you've said here. There are many people who have mental limitations, that a well-documented fact.

You're just in denial. You appear to be so anxious to support the biblical myths that you abandon all sense of rationality to support it. It must be extremely important to you that Christianity be true.

I'll never understand that. Just imagine for a moment that Christianity is false. That would mean that you aren't in the doghouse with God and that it wasn't necessarily for God to have his only begotten totally innocent son nailed to a pole to pay for your horrible behavior.

Surely you would jump with absolute JOY with such a revelation!

No sane person could want Christianity to be true, of there is a possibility that it could be false. That's would be truly insane.

It's a horrible picture. It has mankind blatantly rejecting God and purposefully choosing to do evil things, and it has the God himself involved with sick perverted blood sacrifices. Who in their right mind would seriously WANT that scenerio to be true, if it doesn't need to be true?

I certainly wouldn't want it to be true. It's a horrible picture of both mankind an God. It's certainly nothing that I would hope might be true on PURE FAITH. On the contrary if I have to believe it on PURE FAITH, I'd much rather have PURE FAITH that it's utterly false.

You can't seriously WANT it to be true if there are other possible scenarios for reality. And the fact is that there are! There are far more reasonable possibilities, why not place our PURE FAITH in one of those?

In fact, Eastern Mysticism and Buddhism is a perfect example. There's no nastiness there. It's just a great vision all the way around.

Take away any and all of what, where, who, how, and why, to us human beings and I"M SORRY,,,,,,,,,,,,WE THINK,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
THEREFORE WE ARE!

THAT DIDN'T JUST COME ABOUT ON A PLANET OF MILLIONS OF SPECIES

ONLY THE ONES WHO WALK, LOOK AND TALK AS WE HUMANS DO,,,

THAT DIDN"T JUST GROW INTO HAPPENING,,,WE WERE MADE TO BE US!

BY----------------------OUR CREATOR----THE LORD THY GOD!



ANY AND ALL SUBSTITUTES OF MY THOUGHTS HERE ARE DENIED,,,,,lol


END OF STORY TIME!!!!!!!