Topic: Seoul says live-fire drill to go on despite N. Korea threat
Fanta46's photo
Fri 12/17/10 09:06 PM
SEOUL, South Korea — South Korea said Saturday it will go ahead with artillery drills on a border island shelled by North Korea last month despite Pyongyang's threat to retaliate again, as Russia and China expressed concerns over tension on the volatile peninsula.

The North warned on Friday it will strike even harder than before if the South went ahead with its planned drill. Four people died last month in the North's attack on Yeonpyeong Island near the tense sea border.

The U.S. supports South Korea, saying the country has a right to conduct such a military exercise. However, Russia's Foreign Ministry expressed its "extreme concern" Friday over the drills and urged South Korea to cancel them to prevent a further escalation of tension.

China, the North's key ally, also said it is firmly opposed to any acts that could worsen already-high tension on the Korean peninsula. "In regard to what could lead to worsening the situation or any escalation of acts of sabotage of regional peace and stability, China is firmly and unambiguously opposed," Chines Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Jiang Yu said in a statement Saturday.

South Korea's Joint Chiefs of Staff said Saturday marines on the drills would push ahead with the drills as scheduled and the military is ready to respond to any possible provocation.

"We have a right to conduct our own military drills," a Joint Chiefs of Staff officer said. He declined to comment on the Russian and Chinese concerns.

The artillery drills, however, were not expected to be held over the weekend because of bad weather and would be conducted either on Monday or Tuesday, the officer said on condition of anonymity, citing office rules.

The one-day, live-fire drills are to be held on Yeonpyeong Island near the tense sea border with North Korea. Yeonpyeong is a tiny island home to fishing communities and military bases that sits just seven miles from North Korean shores.

A senior North Korean military official said in comments carried by the North's official Korean Central News Agency that if South Korea goes ahead with more drills on Yeonpyeong, "unpredictable self-defensive strikes will be made."

"The intensity and scope of the strike will be more serious than the Nov. 23 (shelling)," the North said in the notice that was sent to South Korean military officials Friday.

"The intensity and scope of the strike will be more serious than the Nov. 23 (shelling)," the North said in the notice that was sent to South Korean military officials Friday.

The North had also warned the South against holding drills before it responded by launching artillery shells Nov. 23 that destroyed homes and renewed fears of war.

The North does not recognize the U.N.-drawn sea border in the area and says it considers drills an infringement of its territory.

Marines carrying rifles conducted routine patrols Saturday morning on Yeonpyeong, and no warning for residents to evacuate to underground shelters has been issued.

Last month's assault was the first by the North to target a civilian area since the end of the 1950-53 Korean War, and it has caused anger and shock in the South, where TV screens and newspapers were filled with stunning images of islanders fleeing their bombed-out, burning homes.

Story: Deciphering clues to North Korea's mysteries
South Korean President Lee Myung-bak's government has faced stinging criticism that his military was unprepared for the attack and reacted too slowly and too weakly. He has since replaced his defense minister and vowed to boost troops and weapons on islands along the Koreas' disputed western sea border.

Seoul has said the drills are part of "routine, justified" exercises and it is prepared to deal with any North Korean attack. Representatives of the American-led U.N. Command that oversees the armistice that ended the Korean War will observe the drills.

"I am urging them extreme restraint ... Let's cool things down. No response. Let the exercises take place," Richardson said.

He said he met Friday with North Korea's top nuclear negotiator and was scheduled to hold talks with the head of the military on Saturday.

"I think I made a little headway," he said in the telephone interview.

"My sense from the North Koreans is they are trying to find ways to tamp this down. Maybe that will continue today, that's my hope," he said. "There's enormous potential for miscalculation."

A frequent unofficial envoy to the reclusive country, Richardson said he wanted to visit the North's main nuclear complex and meet with senior officials during his four-day trip, though details of his schedule were unclear.

In Washington, State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said Friday that South Korea has a right to conduct a live-fire military exercise and North Korea should not view that as a threat.

"A country has every right to train and exercise its military in its own self-defense," Crowley said. "North Korea should not use any future legitimate training exercises as justification to undertake further provocative actions."
Still, Gen. James Cartwright, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, voiced worry of a potential chain reaction if the drill is misunderstood or if North Korea reacts negatively.
"What you don't want to have happen out of that is for us to lose control of the escalation," he told reporters at the Pentagon. "That's the concern."
Amid the rising tensions, American diplomats were holding meetings in the region.
In Beijing, U.S. Deputy Secretary of State James Steinberg held closed-door meetings with Chinese State Councilor Dai Bingguo. Beijing's top foreign policy official returned last week from talks in Pyongyang with North Korean leader Kim Jong Il. China has come under growing pressure to push ally North Korea to change its behavior.
Dai said it was urgent that all parties prevent escalating tensions, according to China's official Xinhua News Agency.
advertisement | ad info Advertisement | ad infoAdvertisement | ad info.The U.S. special envoy for six-party talks, Sung Kim, met Friday for talks with South Korean nuclear envoy Wi Sung-lac. Kim did not talk to reporters after the meeting.
Pyongyang is believed to be seeking one-on-one talks with the United States before returning to six-nation nuclear disarmament negotiations hosted by China. Those talks also include South Korea, Japan, and Russia.
Crowley said that before any discussions can happen, North Korea must cease provocations, reduce tensions in the region, improve ties with South Korea and take steps to abandon its nuclear programs.
In New York, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called the Nov. 23 attack on the tiny island of Yeonpyeong "one of the gravest provocations since the end of Korean war."
Ban, a former South Korean foreign minister, urged North Korea to show restraint and called on both Koreas to reduce tensions on the Korean peninsula.
The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
.
The tough words from the Koreas came as New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson visited the North. The U.S. diplomatic troubleshooter said the situation between the North and South is "a tinderbox," and urged "extreme restraint" by the North. He said it should allow the South's military exercises to go ahead.

In an interview on CNN, Richardson said he had met with a senior North Korean official and urged "let's cool things down."

"A country has every right to train and exercise its military in its own self-defense," Crowley said. "North Korea should not use any future legitimate training exercises as justification to undertake further provocative actions."

Still, Gen. James Cartwright, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, voiced worry of a potential chain reaction if the drill is misunderstood or if North Korea reacts negatively.

"What you don't want to have happen out of that is for us to lose control of the escalation," he told reporters at the Pentagon. "That's the concern."

Amid the rising tensions, American diplomats were holding meetings in the region.

In Beijing, U.S. Deputy Secretary of State James Steinberg held closed-door meetings with Chinese State Councilor Dai Bingguo. Beijing's top foreign policy official returned last week from talks in Pyongyang with North Korean leader Kim Jong Il. China has come under growing pressure to push ally North Korea to change its behavior.

Dai said it was urgent that all parties prevent escalating tensions, according to China's official Xinhua News Agency.

.The U.S. special envoy for six-party talks, Sung Kim, met Friday for talks with South Korean nuclear envoy Wi Sung-lac. Kim did not talk to reporters after the meeting.

Pyongyang is believed to be seeking one-on-one talks with the United States before returning to six-nation nuclear disarmament negotiations hosted by China. Those talks also include South Korea, Japan, and Russia.

Crowley said that before any discussions can happen, North Korea must cease provocations, reduce tensions in the region, improve ties with South Korea and take steps to abandon its nuclear programs.

In New York, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called the Nov. 23 attack on the tiny island of Yeonpyeong "one of the gravest provocations since the end of Korean war."

Ban, a former South Korean foreign minister, urged North Korea to show restraint and called on both Koreas to reduce tensions on the Korean peninsula.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40713808/ns/world_news-asiapacific

AndyBgood's photo
Fri 12/17/10 09:30 PM
Sadly I do see this leading to a renewal of hostilities and China will play their games too.

China is remaining ambiguous becasue they will have to declare war is we get involved with our ally in this fur ball and they stand to loose a lot of money to it.

I think China's games of power playing will backfire on them badly becasue of this all. Russia seriously has no stake in Korea. Their involvement is trivial!

It is China who is to watch out for when N Korea gets froggy!

Fanta46's photo
Fri 12/17/10 10:20 PM
Where was the first place American fighter pilots saw a Jet in combat?

Fanta46's photo
Fri 12/17/10 10:21 PM
I should say commonly saw?

Fanta46's photo
Fri 12/17/10 10:55 PM
I'll answer,

KOREA!
They were Russian and flown by Russians.

AndyBgood's photo
Sat 12/18/10 04:23 PM
Edited by AndyBgood on Sat 12/18/10 04:24 PM

Where was the first place American fighter pilots saw a Jet in combat?


WWII and it was GERMANY! Towards the end of WWII jet attacks were becoming more common place BUT the jet was used too late in the war to make a real difference. Had Hitler ignored Herman Goering and had Heinkel producing Salamander Jets in 1938 when they first flew the war would have been a lot different.

Now granted Jets seen more use in the Korean War BUT in deference to aircraft we also were introducing jets but had non deployed over seas. It wasn't until the Korean War when we seen the need to deploy jets abroad on more than aircraft carriers.

Also the argument these days is that the MIG 15 was a ripoff of the Messerschmitt P 1101 Prototype jet fighter.



Messerschmitt also had a jet on the drawing board that looked EXACTLY like a Mig 15 that was to fire four wire guided air to air missiles!



Oddly the first plane intended to carry air to air missiles was the Fokker Wulf Fw TA 183, another jet that looks an awful lot like a Mig 15.



My how the Russians run with stolen technology!

Seakolony's photo
Sat 12/18/10 04:42 PM
So South Korea should not complete military excercises because North Korea threatens them.....North Korea is making itself hostile towards training exercises.....ridiculous that South Korea should bow before threats...and don't think I don't worry as I still have family in South Korea

mightymoe's photo
Sat 12/18/10 04:55 PM

So South Korea should not complete military excercises because North Korea threatens them.....North Korea is making itself hostile towards training exercises.....ridiculous that South Korea should bow before threats...and don't think I don't worry as I still have family in South Korea


there is going to another war there soon... hope your family can get away from the cross-fire...

Fanta46's photo
Sat 12/18/10 05:00 PM
It did not become common for American fighter pilots to face Jet aircraft in combat until the Korean war.
They were Russian and so were the pilots.

Yes Germany built a few but they were never effectively armed and there were very few of them.

mightymoe's photo
Sat 12/18/10 05:04 PM

It did not become common for American fighter pilots to face Jet aircraft in combat until the Korean war.
They were Russian and so were the pilots.

Yes Germany built a few but they were never effectively armed and there were very few of them.


the koren war was credited with the fist use, but American pilots did encounter a few jets at the end of ww2... they were amazed at the speed of the jets, more 2ce the speed of the p51 mustangs...

Fanta46's photo
Sat 12/18/10 05:17 PM
Yes.
That's right.

Seakolony's photo
Sat 12/18/10 05:36 PM


So South Korea should not complete military excercises because North Korea threatens them.....North Korea is making itself hostile towards training exercises.....ridiculous that South Korea should bow before threats...and don't think I don't worry as I still have family in South Korea


there is going to another war there soon... hope your family can get away from the cross-fire...

Another war.....the war never ended....a cease fire was called but there was never really and end persay to the war between North and South Korea......

Which definitely makes you wonder since China and Russia exercised control over North Korea........South Korea is an ally of the US,....and Russia has become and ally of the US.....China has trade agreements with the US but truly an ally is a bit skeptical and what their ties with Arab nations which the US is obviously having issues with......and the World War II being instigated in trying to eradicate the Jews and genocide......The Arab Nations still hell bent on erasing Judiah from the Earth.....and how this could lead to another World War....with the UN trying to place a World government.......what is it that is hidden what is not transparent and what is the indicators here??.......It may be more and deeper then my family members in South Korea and they are mostly in the Puson area.......

mightymoe's photo
Sat 12/18/10 05:46 PM



So South Korea should not complete military excercises because North Korea threatens them.....North Korea is making itself hostile towards training exercises.....ridiculous that South Korea should bow before threats...and don't think I don't worry as I still have family in South Korea


there is going to another war there soon... hope your family can get away from the cross-fire...

Another war.....the war never ended....a cease fire was called but there was never really and end persay to the war between North and South Korea......

Which definitely makes you wonder since China and Russia exercised control over North Korea........South Korea is an ally of the US,....and Russia has become and ally of the US.....China has trade agreements with the US but truly an ally is a bit skeptical and what their ties with Arab nations which the US is obviously having issues with......and the World War II being instigated in trying to eradicate the Jews and genocide......The Arab Nations still hell bent on erasing Judiah from the Earth.....and how this could lead to another World War....with the UN trying to place a World government.......what is it that is hidden what is not transparent and what is the indicators here??.......It may be more and deeper then my family members in South Korea and they are mostly in the Puson area.......


bush was a leading denouncer of that 1 world government crap... obama is all for it...

DiveBomber4's photo
Sat 12/18/10 06:43 PM
S. Korea has every right to excersize their military drills. N. Korea is always making threats anyways, lets see them back up their threats now!!

AndyBgood's photo
Sat 12/18/10 07:03 PM


It did not become common for American fighter pilots to face Jet aircraft in combat until the Korean war.
They were Russian and so were the pilots.

Yes Germany built a few but they were never effectively armed and there were very few of them.


the koren war was credited with the fist use, but American pilots did encounter a few jets at the end of ww2... they were amazed at the speed of the jets, more 2ce the speed of the p51 mustangs...


That is not true about the speed. I held a certification as an A/P mechanic and was an Aircraft head as in forever. The ME 262 which was the most common of the jets followed by the Heinkel Salamandar flew around 640 MPH vs the P 51's top speed of 541 MPH. The P 38 J Lightning was faster and actually managed to break the sound barrier in a dive like the P 51 BUT its level speed was just under 600 MPH.

The German Arado AR 234 was the first Jet Bomber but Germany used it for reconnaissance more than a bomber becasue the Allies could not catch it and it was FASTER than the Me 262. The Arado pilots intentionally would buzz formations of Allied planes in a show of bravado becasue they recon planes were unarmed. the pilots knew the allies could not catch them.

What was more common was Rocket planes like the Me 263 Comet. They were supersonic capable and would get to 30,000 feet in under three minuets. A;so, they were in the war very early, they used over a thousand of them, and our bomber pilots feared them more than the Me 109. Something about being shot at with a pair of 30mm cannons made for a butt hole tightening trip. All they had to do was hit your payload. it only was aloft for an expected five to ten minuets since they could only shoot at a couple of bombers before running out of fuel and having to glide in for a landing.

At the beginning of the Korean War Russia only committed a few planes to N Korea. It was when we began bringing in planes like the F-32 and F-36 and F-38 that we began to see in the latter part of the war Mig 21s. We had P-60 Shooting Stars which were jets but they were obsolete before the Korean War began.

The Mig 15 was a light and there fore maneuverable plane and did pack a larger gun BUT it was a maintenance whore and it did not take damage well. Now I remember correctly (since this is off of the top of my head, I may be wrong but I am sure it was a F4U that scored the first jet kill) the first N Korean jet killed was downed by a Marines Vought F4U-E Corsair armed with 4 20mm cannons and the pilot used tactics used by Clair Chenault in China during WWII. A Mig 15 got it and the pilot died in the crash revealing they did not have ejection seats!

Our biggest problem of the time was using the 50 BMG instead of a 20 MM cannon. The Mig 15 had a 37mm cannon and two 30 caliber MGs to site the big gun in. The 20mm cannon took the speed advantage away fast!

Chazster's photo
Sun 12/19/10 06:36 AM


It did not become common for American fighter pilots to face Jet aircraft in combat until the Korean war.
They were Russian and so were the pilots.

Yes Germany built a few but they were never effectively armed and there were very few of them.


the koren war was credited with the fist use, but American pilots did encounter a few jets at the end of ww2... they were amazed at the speed of the jets, more 2ce the speed of the p51 mustangs...


Its not really another war. The first war never officially ended.