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| Topic: Questioning the nature of God and the Bible....... | |
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It's not just old testament that God looks down on homosexuality. Yes it is, because the verses you quoted were just authors who were dredging things up from the Old Testament. And they most certainly weren't speaking for Jesus. Very little of the New Testament actually contains teachings that supposed came from Jesus. Mostly just Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. And Matthew and Luke are just rehashes of Mark. So really you just have Mark and John. Paul wrote the bulk of the New Testament and most of his writings are indeed just dredging up things from the Old Testament. The point is the Jesus himself never taught any of that crap even according to the gospels. You need to realize that the bible isn't a BOOK, it's a collection of a bunch of separate hearsay rumors that purposefully try to nail Jesus firmly to the Old Testament God. |
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It's not just old testament that God looks down on homosexuality. Yes it is, because the verses you quoted were just authors who were dredging things up from the Old Testament. And they most certainly weren't speaking for Jesus. Very little of the New Testament actually contains teachings that supposed came from Jesus. Mostly just Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. And Matthew and Luke are just rehashes of Mark. So really you just have Mark and John. Paul wrote the bulk of the New Testament and most of his writings are indeed just dredging up things from the Old Testament. The point is the Jesus himself never taught any of that crap even according to the gospels. You need to realize that the bible isn't a BOOK, it's a collection of a bunch of separate hearsay rumors that purposefully try to nail Jesus firmly to the Old Testament God. I realize they are all different books, that's why it's call the "book" of matthew the "book" of mark. Wow thanks abra :D I really don't know where i'd be without you. And you have no proof nor can you show any evidence on who wrote what in the bible. Heck might have been Mark that wrote ALL the books in the bible, you can't prove any of anything along those lines. So your statement of Paul writing the bulk is mute, pointless, and irrelevant. And just because the bible itself doesn't have Jesus saying it out of his mouth at that specific time does NOT mean he didn't say it. If I told you something, then you wrote it down. Would it be you that was the one that said it? That's what you're saying here. Just because it was someone having said it in the bible doesn't mean they didn't get that knowledge from Jesus. Because Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John all got there knowledge from Jesus. Any and all the knowledge in the bible is from Jesus. For Jesus is the word, and in the beginning with God was the word. |
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It's the THEORY of evolution my friend. A theory is nothing more then an educated GUESS. So nothing FACTUAL about it, just merely guesses that are accepted to possibly be true. reply one: According to the 'theory' above, a person can read the Bible and the best that person can possibly do is make an educated guess about what it says. If that is the best any reader of ancient scripture can do than there is nothing FACTUAL about it - is there? response to reply one: Not necassarily. If people of different denominations were to get together and study the bible together and share what they know and how they take things the way they take them. We could do away with "denominations". Reason for different denominations is cause of different cultures and different readings of the scriptures. Which commonly happens with everything. I could write a paragraph of something, have 5 people read it, and you would get 5 different meanings. But if these 5 people were to come together and share why they feel it says this or that and give evidence of such through the scriptures people may come to a different conclusion and again do away with denominations. But unfortunately don't know what it is, maybe ego or pride. But this probably won't happen for each denomination thinks they have the knowledge. Instead of fighting and bickering at each other we really should come together and open our hearts and minds and let the spirit lead us. From a previous post: God isn't limited to a book. God can not be found in a book, God can not be found in a building, God can only be found if you whole heartedly seek him. I know God, I do not know him from a book. If you speak to God and whole heartedly listen with your heart he will speak to you. Taking into account the last two quotes above – there would seem to be no logical reason for anyone to have to consult a book in order to have a personal relationship with God. Therefore, the book is unnecessary and there is no reason why any individual who reads that book would have to agree with any other individual about what it says. Let God guide each individual, as you say He would judge each individual – from the perspective of the person and not from the perspective of other humans. By the way, just to provide some information – there are two, general, ways in which the word ‘theory’ tends to be defined. Those who are not familiar with the scientific application of theory use a different application of the word. Ignorance of the scientific application of the word ‘theory’ causes people to use the OTHER definition. The result is that those without understanding are more likely to see science in opposition of certain religious beliefs. The only opposition between religious belief and science is a result of ‘written’ doctrine that cannot conform to empirical evidence. There would be no opposition between science and religion at all, if all people met and accepted God on their own terms and let the personal element define the terms of the relationship instead of a book with which few can find common elements of truth. |
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It's not just old testament that God looks down on homosexuality. Jude 1:7 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Notice going after strange flesh ------------------ 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Notice effeminate. Effeminate is feminine characteristics. And homosexuals generally have those, they speak like a woman, they present themselves like a woman, and so much more. ---------------------- 1 Timothy 1:9-10 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Again with defiling themselves with mankind, this falls into the category of strange flesh. ----------------------- Can find more if you wish but I think this is enough to show homosexuality being sinful. Unless you're one that has to be told a million times before you start to listen. God has told us many upon many times homosexuality is wrong in both the old and new testament. The exercise of stretching the mind is a frivolous and fruitless waste of time. For a real mind work out, try learning something for the sake of knowledge instead of making something up for the sake of reinforcing a bias. Try reaching into the historic record and finding the original translation of the word effeminate and how it related to the cultural view of those who used it in the biblical times in which it was written. For a much easier brain workout, try looking into the difference between the two definitions of the word ‘Theory”. That way it can be applied more appropriately if future discussions. |
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It's the THEORY of evolution my friend. A theory is nothing more then an educated GUESS. So nothing FACTUAL about it, just merely guesses that are accepted to possibly be true. reply one: According to the 'theory' above, a person can read the Bible and the best that person can possibly do is make an educated guess about what it says. If that is the best any reader of ancient scripture can do than there is nothing FACTUAL about it - is there? response to reply one: Not necassarily. If people of different denominations were to get together and study the bible together and share what they know and how they take things the way they take them. We could do away with "denominations". Reason for different denominations is cause of different cultures and different readings of the scriptures. Which commonly happens with everything. I could write a paragraph of something, have 5 people read it, and you would get 5 different meanings. But if these 5 people were to come together and share why they feel it says this or that and give evidence of such through the scriptures people may come to a different conclusion and again do away with denominations. But unfortunately don't know what it is, maybe ego or pride. But this probably won't happen for each denomination thinks they have the knowledge. Instead of fighting and bickering at each other we really should come together and open our hearts and minds and let the spirit lead us. From a previous post: God isn't limited to a book. God can not be found in a book, God can not be found in a building, God can only be found if you whole heartedly seek him. I know God, I do not know him from a book. If you speak to God and whole heartedly listen with your heart he will speak to you. Taking into account the last two quotes above – there would seem to be no logical reason for anyone to have to consult a book in order to have a personal relationship with God. Therefore, the book is unnecessary and there is no reason why any individual who reads that book would have to agree with any other individual about what it says. Let God guide each individual, as you say He would judge each individual – from the perspective of the person and not from the perspective of other humans. By the way, just to provide some information – there are two, general, ways in which the word ‘theory’ tends to be defined. Those who are not familiar with the scientific application of theory use a different application of the word. Ignorance of the scientific application of the word ‘theory’ causes people to use the OTHER definition. The result is that those without understanding are more likely to see science in opposition of certain religious beliefs. The only opposition between religious belief and science is a result of ‘written’ doctrine that cannot conform to empirical evidence. There would be no opposition between science and religion at all, if all people met and accepted God on their own terms and let the personal element define the terms of the relationship instead of a book with which few can find common elements of truth. The bible is merely a tool to learn about God. It is not a tool to find God. Someone can read, reread, reread, and reread the bible and never find god. Finding God comes from your search of him in your heart, your search in your mind. God is not in the bible, the bible is history, a smart person learns from his/her mistakes a wise person learns from other people's mistakes. The bible is merely instructions on how to live to appease our father. But our father himself is not found in the bible. Again finding God only comes from within your sincere search of him. |
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It's not just old testament that God looks down on homosexuality. Jude 1:7 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Notice going after strange flesh ------------------ 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Notice effeminate. Effeminate is feminine characteristics. And homosexuals generally have those, they speak like a woman, they present themselves like a woman, and so much more. ---------------------- 1 Timothy 1:9-10 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Again with defiling themselves with mankind, this falls into the category of strange flesh. ----------------------- Can find more if you wish but I think this is enough to show homosexuality being sinful. Unless you're one that has to be told a million times before you start to listen. God has told us many upon many times homosexuality is wrong in both the old and new testament. The exercise of stretching the mind is a frivolous and fruitless waste of time. For a real mind work out, try learning something for the sake of knowledge instead of making something up for the sake of reinforcing a bias. Try reaching into the historic record and finding the original translation of the word effeminate and how it related to the cultural view of those who used it in the biblical times in which it was written. For a much easier brain workout, try looking into the difference between the two definitions of the word ‘Theory”. That way it can be applied more appropriately if future discussions. All the definitions of theory revolves around "educated guesses". They revolve around hypothesis's which is indeed nothing but an educated guess of gathered possibilities. The exercise of stretching the mind is a frivolous and fruitless waste of time. For a real mind work out, try learning something for the sake of knowledge instead of making something up for the sake of reinforcing a bias. I know this stuff for the sake of knowledge. This knowledge is the most important knowledge one can hold. "knowledge" in the science fields change all the time. This has been consistent for years. The world will die away, the knowledge of the things in the bible will never die or pass away. They always have been and always will be. Learning knowledge of this world does me no good, that knowledge will be useless when I pass away, so I spent my entire life putting my thoughts and attention towards something inevitably unimportant for I would have wasted my time. I choose to spend my time studying knowledge of something that will be true forever, something that never changes, something that will never die. Why would I waste my life on anything else? And lol nice try, but science itself is very biased. This scientist claims this, but this scientist claims that. So this scientists makes claims on how this is true, but that scientist shows claims on how that is true. Happens all the time. There is nothing biased in the bible. Just because YOU say it's biased, doesn't make it biased. |
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Edited by
Milesoftheusa
on
Tue 12/21/10 05:34 AM
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It's not just old testament that God looks down on homosexuality. Jude 1:7 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Notice going after strange flesh ------------------ 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Notice effeminate. Effeminate is feminine characteristics. And homosexuals generally have those, they speak like a woman, they present themselves like a woman, and so much more. ---------------------- 1 Timothy 1:9-10 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Again with defiling themselves with mankind, this falls into the category of strange flesh. ----------------------- Can find more if you wish but I think this is enough to show homosexuality being sinful. Unless you're one that has to be told a million times before you start to listen. God has told us many upon many times homosexuality is wrong in both the old and new testament. The exercise of stretching the mind is a frivolous and fruitless waste of time. For a real mind work out, try learning something for the sake of knowledge instead of making something up for the sake of reinforcing a bias. Try reaching into the historic record and finding the original translation of the word effeminate and how it related to the cultural view of those who used it in the biblical times in which it was written. For a much easier brain workout, try looking into the difference between the two definitions of the word ‘Theory”. That way it can be applied more appropriately if future discussions. \ Shalom Glad you all brought this up as it is strange what the wording is and means as... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of Yahweh? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites NKJV as you can see Homosexual is translated for Effeminate... at least in the NKJV curious as I am lets see what a few other versions say ... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV 1 Cor 6:9 nor adulterers, nor effeminate, Seems the old used Effeminate and the New version used Homosexuals.. yet niether add up.... malakos NT:3120 malakos (mal-ak-os'); of uncertain affinity; soft, i.e. fine (clothing); figuratively, a catamite: KJV - effeminate, soft. From the Greek interlinier text.. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.) Effimate seems to clothing or something soft. How did they get to basically from reading this Homosexual from soft clothing? The word is used 4x according to the Englishmans concordance. The Englishmans concordance takes the actual Greek or Hebrew word and shows you everywhere that Greek word in this case is and how it was translated into English. Gives alot of insite to phrases and uses of words. Like these 3 verses for Effeminate.. Matt 11:8 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. KJV Luke 7:25 25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts. KJV 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV and the NKJV says HOMOSEXUAL The word Effeminate and Homosexual does not seem to fit. How are those 4 uses of the same Greek word equal to each other? Homosexual and Soft Clothing. Something is arye I will agree. If we look at some scripture before and after we may see more... One thing to notice its Disciple getting onto another Disciple not everyone else... 1 Cor 6:1-12 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the assembly. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of Master Yahshua, and by the Spirit of Yahweh. 12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. KJV One thing he is Scolding them... You can not even get along yourselves how can you justify the word? A very true reasoning.. Live what you Preach... Also if you are wronged what is it to you? If you really are the children of Yahweh why do you even care? Let it be.. Do what your Heart and mind tells you is right, to do and all will be fine.. Just as Yahshua said... Matt 5:39-40 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. KJV Resist not evil.. Its nothing to you let it go.. Even speaks of sueing somebody.Why? All this makes since with why Efferinate was used.. Soft..Royalty,Men with more than they need the rich. remember ... where Effeminate was used for soft when Yahshua asked what did u come here to see? Matt 11:7-9 7 And as they departed, Yahshua began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT (Effeminate) raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. 9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. Effeminate by Scriptual use is the Ones Who are in control.. The leaders those who look down on you and have no Hospitality. It should never of been translated like it was.. Its Traditional Scribing. Matt 19:23-24 23 Then said Yahshua unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. KJV This is who Effeminate refers to not Homosexuals but possibly Sodom and Gormorrah. Why? Remember Lot is Abrahams nephew. Lot chose to live where he did.. He did not have to. Abraham had 323 servents that worked for him.. Lot could of been with his uncle but he chose not to. Lots 2 daughters were used too the way it was thier.. They saw life everyday. Lot though when the 2 Angels came he was sitting outside the city and i am sure many more were. He though was Hospitable and humbling to the stranger. Yahweh talks alot about the Stranger the Homeless the Widow and the orphan.. He says when you run across these you are to Humble yourself and pay Homage. This is why you have extra to help when the need is thier. The rich worries about themselves they have respect to themselves.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall Love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV Lot is called righteous and alot of people have a hard time with this. He was going to turn his daughters over to the town mob.. Lot was following the Law of Righteousness.. thats why he is called Righteous. The Law of Righteousness we just read.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV He knew that they did not want his daughters why would they? They seen them all the time. Lot though knew if a stranger or anyone is under your roof you act as if they are one of your own. You protect them the best you can.Its the Law of Righteousness of Putting others 1st. Some of the sins of Sodom and Gommorah was thier Pride and everything goes as we want, when we want it.. Not Hospitable If you read more of the scriptures around where Effeminate and Soft are found. You will find in all of them its saying those who think they are 2 good are out. Its as simple as that... Blessings of Shalom..Miles |
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It's not just old testament that God looks down on homosexuality. Jude 1:7 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Notice going after strange flesh ------------------ 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Notice effeminate. Effeminate is feminine characteristics. And homosexuals generally have those, they speak like a woman, they present themselves like a woman, and so much more. ---------------------- 1 Timothy 1:9-10 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Again with defiling themselves with mankind, this falls into the category of strange flesh. ----------------------- Can find more if you wish but I think this is enough to show homosexuality being sinful. Unless you're one that has to be told a million times before you start to listen. God has told us many upon many times homosexuality is wrong in both the old and new testament. The exercise of stretching the mind is a frivolous and fruitless waste of time. For a real mind work out, try learning something for the sake of knowledge instead of making something up for the sake of reinforcing a bias. Try reaching into the historic record and finding the original translation of the word effeminate and how it related to the cultural view of those who used it in the biblical times in which it was written. For a much easier brain workout, try looking into the difference between the two definitions of the word ‘Theory”. That way it can be applied more appropriately if future discussions. \ Shalom Glad you all brought this up as it is strange what the wording is and means as... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of Yahweh? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites NKJV as you can see Homosexual is translated for Effeminate... at least in the NKJV curious as I am lets see what a few other versions say ... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV 1 Cor 6:9 nor adulterers, nor effeminate, Seems the old used Effeminate and the New version used Homosexuals.. yet niether add up.... malakos NT:3120 malakos (mal-ak-os'); of uncertain affinity; soft, i.e. fine (clothing); figuratively, a catamite: KJV - effeminate, soft. From the Greek interlinier text.. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.) Effimate seems to clothing or something soft. How did they get to basically from reading this Homosexual from soft clothing? The word is used 4x according to the Englishmans concordance. The Englishmans concordance takes the actual Greek or Hebrew word and shows you everywhere that Greek word in this case is and how it was translated into English. Gives alot of insite to phrases and uses of words. Like these 3 verses for Effeminate.. Matt 11:8 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. KJV Luke 7:25 25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts. KJV 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV and the NKJV says HOMOSEXUAL The word Effeminate and Homosexual does not seem to fit. How are those 4 uses of the same Greek word equal to each other? Homosexual and Soft Clothing. Something is arye I will agree. If we look at some scripture before and after we may see more... One thing to notice its Disciple getting onto another Disciple not everyone else... 1 Cor 6:1-12 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the assembly. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of Master Yahshua, and by the Spirit of Yahweh. 12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. KJV One thing he is Scolding them... You can not even get along yourselves how can you justify the word? A very true reasoning.. Live what you Preach... Also if you are wronged what is it to you? If you really are the children of Yahweh why do you even care? Let it be.. Do what your Heart and mind tells you is right, to do and all will be fine.. Just as Yahshua said... Matt 5:39-40 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. KJV Resist not evil.. Its nothing to you let it go.. Even speaks of sueing somebody.Why? All this makes since with why Efferinate was used.. Soft..Royalty,Men with more than they need the rich. remember ... where Effeminate was used for soft when Yahshua asked what did u come here to see? Matt 11:7-9 7 And as they departed, Yahshua began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT (Effeminate) raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. 9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. Effeminate by Scriptual use is the Ones Who are in control.. The leaders those who look down on you and have no Hospitality. It should never of been translated like it was.. Its Traditional Scribing. Matt 19:23-24 23 Then said Yahshua unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. KJV This is who Effeminate refers to not Homosexuals but possibly Sodom and Gormorrah. Why? Remember Lot is Abrahams nephew. Lot chose to live where he did.. He did not have to. Abraham had 323 servents that worked for him.. Lot could of been with his uncle but he chose not to. Lots 2 daughters were used too the way it was thier.. They saw life everyday. Lot though when the 2 Angels came he was sitting outside the city and i am sure many more were. He though was Hospitable and humbling to the stranger. Yahweh talks alot about the Stranger the Homeless the Widow and the orphan.. He says when you run across these you are to Humble yourself and pay Homage. This is why you have extra to help when the need is thier. The rich worries about themselves they have respect to themselves.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall Love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV Lot is called righteous and alot of people have a hard time with this. He was going to turn his daughters over to the town mob.. Lot was following the Law of Righteousness.. thats why he is called Righteous. The Law of Righteousness we just read.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV He knew that they did not want his daughters why would they? They seen them all the time. Lot though knew if a stranger or anyone is under your roof you act as if they are one of your own. You protect them the best you can.Its the Law of Righteousness of Putting others 1st. Some of the sins of Sodom and Gommorah was thier Pride and everything goes as we want, when we want it.. Not Hospitable If you read more of the scriptures around where Effeminate and Soft are found. You will find in all of them its saying those who think they are 2 good are out. Its as simple as that... Blessings of Shalom..Miles Female characteristics and homosexuality have a whole lot to do with one another. Most male homosexuals tend to have a lot of female characteristics in the way they talk, their everyday desires, their sexual desires, quite a bit of similarities between male homosexuals and females. |
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It's not just old testament that God looks down on homosexuality. Jude 1:7 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Notice going after strange flesh ------------------ 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Notice effeminate. Effeminate is feminine characteristics. And homosexuals generally have those, they speak like a woman, they present themselves like a woman, and so much more. ---------------------- 1 Timothy 1:9-10 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Again with defiling themselves with mankind, this falls into the category of strange flesh. ----------------------- Can find more if you wish but I think this is enough to show homosexuality being sinful. Unless you're one that has to be told a million times before you start to listen. God has told us many upon many times homosexuality is wrong in both the old and new testament. The exercise of stretching the mind is a frivolous and fruitless waste of time. For a real mind work out, try learning something for the sake of knowledge instead of making something up for the sake of reinforcing a bias. Try reaching into the historic record and finding the original translation of the word effeminate and how it related to the cultural view of those who used it in the biblical times in which it was written. For a much easier brain workout, try looking into the difference between the two definitions of the word ‘Theory”. That way it can be applied more appropriately if future discussions. \ Shalom Glad you all brought this up as it is strange what the wording is and means as... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of Yahweh? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites NKJV as you can see Homosexual is translated for Effeminate... at least in the NKJV curious as I am lets see what a few other versions say ... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV 1 Cor 6:9 nor adulterers, nor effeminate, Seems the old used Effeminate and the New version used Homosexuals.. yet niether add up.... malakos NT:3120 malakos (mal-ak-os'); of uncertain affinity; soft, i.e. fine (clothing); figuratively, a catamite: KJV - effeminate, soft. From the Greek interlinier text.. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.) Effimate seems to clothing or something soft. How did they get to basically from reading this Homosexual from soft clothing? The word is used 4x according to the Englishmans concordance. The Englishmans concordance takes the actual Greek or Hebrew word and shows you everywhere that Greek word in this case is and how it was translated into English. Gives alot of insite to phrases and uses of words. Like these 3 verses for Effeminate.. Matt 11:8 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. KJV Luke 7:25 25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts. KJV 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV and the NKJV says HOMOSEXUAL The word Effeminate and Homosexual does not seem to fit. How are those 4 uses of the same Greek word equal to each other? Homosexual and Soft Clothing. Something is arye I will agree. If we look at some scripture before and after we may see more... One thing to notice its Disciple getting onto another Disciple not everyone else... 1 Cor 6:1-12 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the assembly. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of Master Yahshua, and by the Spirit of Yahweh. 12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. KJV One thing he is Scolding them... You can not even get along yourselves how can you justify the word? A very true reasoning.. Live what you Preach... Also if you are wronged what is it to you? If you really are the children of Yahweh why do you even care? Let it be.. Do what your Heart and mind tells you is right, to do and all will be fine.. Just as Yahshua said... Matt 5:39-40 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. KJV Resist not evil.. Its nothing to you let it go.. Even speaks of sueing somebody.Why? All this makes since with why Efferinate was used.. Soft..Royalty,Men with more than they need the rich. remember ... where Effeminate was used for soft when Yahshua asked what did u come here to see? Matt 11:7-9 7 And as they departed, Yahshua began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT (Effeminate) raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. 9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. Effeminate by Scriptual use is the Ones Who are in control.. The leaders those who look down on you and have no Hospitality. It should never of been translated like it was.. Its Traditional Scribing. Matt 19:23-24 23 Then said Yahshua unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. KJV This is who Effeminate refers to not Homosexuals but possibly Sodom and Gormorrah. Why? Remember Lot is Abrahams nephew. Lot chose to live where he did.. He did not have to. Abraham had 323 servents that worked for him.. Lot could of been with his uncle but he chose not to. Lots 2 daughters were used too the way it was thier.. They saw life everyday. Lot though when the 2 Angels came he was sitting outside the city and i am sure many more were. He though was Hospitable and humbling to the stranger. Yahweh talks alot about the Stranger the Homeless the Widow and the orphan.. He says when you run across these you are to Humble yourself and pay Homage. This is why you have extra to help when the need is thier. The rich worries about themselves they have respect to themselves.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall Love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV Lot is called righteous and alot of people have a hard time with this. He was going to turn his daughters over to the town mob.. Lot was following the Law of Righteousness.. thats why he is called Righteous. The Law of Righteousness we just read.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV He knew that they did not want his daughters why would they? They seen them all the time. Lot though knew if a stranger or anyone is under your roof you act as if they are one of your own. You protect them the best you can.Its the Law of Righteousness of Putting others 1st. Some of the sins of Sodom and Gommorah was thier Pride and everything goes as we want, when we want it.. Not Hospitable If you read more of the scriptures around where Effeminate and Soft are found. You will find in all of them its saying those who think they are 2 good are out. Its as simple as that... Blessings of Shalom..Miles Female characteristics and homosexuality have a whole lot to do with one another. Most male homosexuals tend to have a lot of female characteristics in the way they talk, their everyday desires, their sexual desires, quite a bit of similarities between male homosexuals and females. I CORINTHIANS 6:9-10 reads: Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. I placed two words in brackets. The first one, "malakoi", Scroggs (p. 14) says "literally means 'soft' and is no technical term for a homosexual." It apparently refers to young boys who would take the "recepient" position in anal sex, often for money. It's also translated in some Bibles as "morally weak". "Aresenokoitai", on the other hand, is clearly a sexual term but, according to Scroggs: Since... the New Testament occurrences are the earliest appearances of the word, it is not easy for us to be sure what it means. John Boswell in his recent study denies that it refers to a homosexual person in general but rather specifically to the male prostitute who could serve heterosexual or homosexual clients. At any rate, the sin is prostitution, not homosexuality in itself. (p. 14) These words are the words used both in Corinthians and in I Timothy 1:10 which are commonly translated into modern bibles as "homosexual", "effeminate," and "self-indulgent." In these enlightened times, however,there is no indication that such terms are in any way connected to homosexuality in itself. In fact, according to Is the Homosexual my Neighbor by Letha Scanzoni and Virginia Ramey Mollenkott: the idea of a lifelong homosexual orientation or "condition" is never mentioned in the Bible... Bible writers assumed that everyone was heterosexual and that in times of moral decay, some heterosexuals peopled did some strange and unnatural things with each other. Since the Bible is silent about the homosexual condition, those who want to understand it must rely on the findings of modern behavorial science research... (p. 71) ----------------------------------------------------------------- reference for this article can be given. Not sure if it is to be put in the post or not. I believe their was mention a while ago not to do as such as to not promote any form of religious websites. So if source needs to be given, please inform and I will give. |
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It's not just old testament that God looks down on homosexuality. Jude 1:7 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Notice going after strange flesh ------------------ 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Notice effeminate. Effeminate is feminine characteristics. And homosexuals generally have those, they speak like a woman, they present themselves like a woman, and so much more. ---------------------- 1 Timothy 1:9-10 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Again with defiling themselves with mankind, this falls into the category of strange flesh. ----------------------- Can find more if you wish but I think this is enough to show homosexuality being sinful. Unless you're one that has to be told a million times before you start to listen. God has told us many upon many times homosexuality is wrong in both the old and new testament. The exercise of stretching the mind is a frivolous and fruitless waste of time. For a real mind work out, try learning something for the sake of knowledge instead of making something up for the sake of reinforcing a bias. Try reaching into the historic record and finding the original translation of the word effeminate and how it related to the cultural view of those who used it in the biblical times in which it was written. For a much easier brain workout, try looking into the difference between the two definitions of the word ‘Theory”. That way it can be applied more appropriately if future discussions. \ Shalom Glad you all brought this up as it is strange what the wording is and means as... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of Yahweh? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites NKJV as you can see Homosexual is translated for Effeminate... at least in the NKJV curious as I am lets see what a few other versions say ... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV 1 Cor 6:9 nor adulterers, nor effeminate, Seems the old used Effeminate and the New version used Homosexuals.. yet niether add up.... malakos NT:3120 malakos (mal-ak-os'); of uncertain affinity; soft, i.e. fine (clothing); figuratively, a catamite: KJV - effeminate, soft. From the Greek interlinier text.. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.) Effimate seems to clothing or something soft. How did they get to basically from reading this Homosexual from soft clothing? The word is used 4x according to the Englishmans concordance. The Englishmans concordance takes the actual Greek or Hebrew word and shows you everywhere that Greek word in this case is and how it was translated into English. Gives alot of insite to phrases and uses of words. Like these 3 verses for Effeminate.. Matt 11:8 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. KJV Luke 7:25 25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts. KJV 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV and the NKJV says HOMOSEXUAL The word Effeminate and Homosexual does not seem to fit. How are those 4 uses of the same Greek word equal to each other? Homosexual and Soft Clothing. Something is arye I will agree. If we look at some scripture before and after we may see more... One thing to notice its Disciple getting onto another Disciple not everyone else... 1 Cor 6:1-12 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the assembly. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of Master Yahshua, and by the Spirit of Yahweh. 12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. KJV One thing he is Scolding them... You can not even get along yourselves how can you justify the word? A very true reasoning.. Live what you Preach... Also if you are wronged what is it to you? If you really are the children of Yahweh why do you even care? Let it be.. Do what your Heart and mind tells you is right, to do and all will be fine.. Just as Yahshua said... Matt 5:39-40 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. KJV Resist not evil.. Its nothing to you let it go.. Even speaks of sueing somebody.Why? All this makes since with why Efferinate was used.. Soft..Royalty,Men with more than they need the rich. remember ... where Effeminate was used for soft when Yahshua asked what did u come here to see? Matt 11:7-9 7 And as they departed, Yahshua began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT (Effeminate) raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. 9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. Effeminate by Scriptual use is the Ones Who are in control.. The leaders those who look down on you and have no Hospitality. It should never of been translated like it was.. Its Traditional Scribing. Matt 19:23-24 23 Then said Yahshua unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. KJV This is who Effeminate refers to not Homosexuals but possibly Sodom and Gormorrah. Why? Remember Lot is Abrahams nephew. Lot chose to live where he did.. He did not have to. Abraham had 323 servents that worked for him.. Lot could of been with his uncle but he chose not to. Lots 2 daughters were used too the way it was thier.. They saw life everyday. Lot though when the 2 Angels came he was sitting outside the city and i am sure many more were. He though was Hospitable and humbling to the stranger. Yahweh talks alot about the Stranger the Homeless the Widow and the orphan.. He says when you run across these you are to Humble yourself and pay Homage. This is why you have extra to help when the need is thier. The rich worries about themselves they have respect to themselves.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall Love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV Lot is called righteous and alot of people have a hard time with this. He was going to turn his daughters over to the town mob.. Lot was following the Law of Righteousness.. thats why he is called Righteous. The Law of Righteousness we just read.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV He knew that they did not want his daughters why would they? They seen them all the time. Lot though knew if a stranger or anyone is under your roof you act as if they are one of your own. You protect them the best you can.Its the Law of Righteousness of Putting others 1st. Some of the sins of Sodom and Gommorah was thier Pride and everything goes as we want, when we want it.. Not Hospitable If you read more of the scriptures around where Effeminate and Soft are found. You will find in all of them its saying those who think they are 2 good are out. Its as simple as that... Blessings of Shalom..Miles Female characteristics and homosexuality have a whole lot to do with one another. Most male homosexuals tend to have a lot of female characteristics in the way they talk, their everyday desires, their sexual desires, quite a bit of similarities between male homosexuals and females. I CORINTHIANS 6:9-10 reads: Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. I placed two words in brackets. The first one, "malakoi", Scroggs (p. 14) says "literally means 'soft' and is no technical term for a homosexual." It apparently refers to young boys who would take the "recepient" position in anal sex, often for money. It's also translated in some Bibles as "morally weak". "Aresenokoitai", on the other hand, is clearly a sexual term but, according to Scroggs: Since... the New Testament occurrences are the earliest appearances of the word, it is not easy for us to be sure what it means. John Boswell in his recent study denies that it refers to a homosexual person in general but rather specifically to the male prostitute who could serve heterosexual or homosexual clients. At any rate, the sin is prostitution, not homosexuality in itself. (p. 14) These words are the words used both in Corinthians and in I Timothy 1:10 which are commonly translated into modern bibles as "homosexual", "effeminate," and "self-indulgent." In these enlightened times, however,there is no indication that such terms are in any way connected to homosexuality in itself. In fact, according to Is the Homosexual my Neighbor by Letha Scanzoni and Virginia Ramey Mollenkott: the idea of a lifelong homosexual orientation or "condition" is never mentioned in the Bible... Bible writers assumed that everyone was heterosexual and that in times of moral decay, some heterosexuals peopled did some strange and unnatural things with each other. Since the Bible is silent about the homosexual condition, those who want to understand it must rely on the findings of modern behavorial science research... (p. 71) ----------------------------------------------------------------- reference for this article can be given. Not sure if it is to be put in the post or not. I believe their was mention a while ago not to do as such as to not promote any form of religious websites. So if source needs to be given, please inform and I will give. So what are you saying? We know 1Tim. 1:10 does not contain the Greek word for Effeminate. The word has great value to what the scriptures are saying and relating the words of Yahshua. We know soft clothing and the rich have little in common with the word Homosexual. Where it is translated other than Soft ( kings houses are in) raiment.It shows Yahshua's beginning of him Teaching and what he taught about just as James 1:27 says and Jer. So what do u mean? Blessings...Miles |
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It's not just old testament that God looks down on homosexuality. Jude 1:7 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Notice going after strange flesh ------------------ 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Notice effeminate. Effeminate is feminine characteristics. And homosexuals generally have those, they speak like a woman, they present themselves like a woman, and so much more. ---------------------- 1 Timothy 1:9-10 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Again with defiling themselves with mankind, this falls into the category of strange flesh. ----------------------- Can find more if you wish but I think this is enough to show homosexuality being sinful. Unless you're one that has to be told a million times before you start to listen. God has told us many upon many times homosexuality is wrong in both the old and new testament. The exercise of stretching the mind is a frivolous and fruitless waste of time. For a real mind work out, try learning something for the sake of knowledge instead of making something up for the sake of reinforcing a bias. Try reaching into the historic record and finding the original translation of the word effeminate and how it related to the cultural view of those who used it in the biblical times in which it was written. For a much easier brain workout, try looking into the difference between the two definitions of the word ‘Theory”. That way it can be applied more appropriately if future discussions. \ Shalom Glad you all brought this up as it is strange what the wording is and means as... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of Yahweh? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites NKJV as you can see Homosexual is translated for Effeminate... at least in the NKJV curious as I am lets see what a few other versions say ... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV 1 Cor 6:9 nor adulterers, nor effeminate, Seems the old used Effeminate and the New version used Homosexuals.. yet niether add up.... malakos NT:3120 malakos (mal-ak-os'); of uncertain affinity; soft, i.e. fine (clothing); figuratively, a catamite: KJV - effeminate, soft. From the Greek interlinier text.. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.) Effimate seems to clothing or something soft. How did they get to basically from reading this Homosexual from soft clothing? The word is used 4x according to the Englishmans concordance. The Englishmans concordance takes the actual Greek or Hebrew word and shows you everywhere that Greek word in this case is and how it was translated into English. Gives alot of insite to phrases and uses of words. Like these 3 verses for Effeminate.. Matt 11:8 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. KJV Luke 7:25 25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts. KJV 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV and the NKJV says HOMOSEXUAL The word Effeminate and Homosexual does not seem to fit. How are those 4 uses of the same Greek word equal to each other? Homosexual and Soft Clothing. Something is arye I will agree. If we look at some scripture before and after we may see more... One thing to notice its Disciple getting onto another Disciple not everyone else... 1 Cor 6:1-12 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the assembly. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of Master Yahshua, and by the Spirit of Yahweh. 12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. KJV One thing he is Scolding them... You can not even get along yourselves how can you justify the word? A very true reasoning.. Live what you Preach... Also if you are wronged what is it to you? If you really are the children of Yahweh why do you even care? Let it be.. Do what your Heart and mind tells you is right, to do and all will be fine.. Just as Yahshua said... Matt 5:39-40 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. KJV Resist not evil.. Its nothing to you let it go.. Even speaks of sueing somebody.Why? All this makes since with why Efferinate was used.. Soft..Royalty,Men with more than they need the rich. remember ... where Effeminate was used for soft when Yahshua asked what did u come here to see? Matt 11:7-9 7 And as they departed, Yahshua began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT (Effeminate) raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. 9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. Effeminate by Scriptual use is the Ones Who are in control.. The leaders those who look down on you and have no Hospitality. It should never of been translated like it was.. Its Traditional Scribing. Matt 19:23-24 23 Then said Yahshua unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. KJV This is who Effeminate refers to not Homosexuals but possibly Sodom and Gormorrah. Why? Remember Lot is Abrahams nephew. Lot chose to live where he did.. He did not have to. Abraham had 323 servents that worked for him.. Lot could of been with his uncle but he chose not to. Lots 2 daughters were used too the way it was thier.. They saw life everyday. Lot though when the 2 Angels came he was sitting outside the city and i am sure many more were. He though was Hospitable and humbling to the stranger. Yahweh talks alot about the Stranger the Homeless the Widow and the orphan.. He says when you run across these you are to Humble yourself and pay Homage. This is why you have extra to help when the need is thier. The rich worries about themselves they have respect to themselves.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall Love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV Lot is called righteous and alot of people have a hard time with this. He was going to turn his daughters over to the town mob.. Lot was following the Law of Righteousness.. thats why he is called Righteous. The Law of Righteousness we just read.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV He knew that they did not want his daughters why would they? They seen them all the time. Lot though knew if a stranger or anyone is under your roof you act as if they are one of your own. You protect them the best you can.Its the Law of Righteousness of Putting others 1st. Some of the sins of Sodom and Gommorah was thier Pride and everything goes as we want, when we want it.. Not Hospitable If you read more of the scriptures around where Effeminate and Soft are found. You will find in all of them its saying those who think they are 2 good are out. Its as simple as that... Blessings of Shalom..Miles Female characteristics and homosexuality have a whole lot to do with one another. Most male homosexuals tend to have a lot of female characteristics in the way they talk, their everyday desires, their sexual desires, quite a bit of similarities between male homosexuals and females. I CORINTHIANS 6:9-10 reads: Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. I placed two words in brackets. The first one, "malakoi", Scroggs (p. 14) says "literally means 'soft' and is no technical term for a homosexual." It apparently refers to young boys who would take the "recepient" position in anal sex, often for money. It's also translated in some Bibles as "morally weak". "Aresenokoitai", on the other hand, is clearly a sexual term but, according to Scroggs: Since... the New Testament occurrences are the earliest appearances of the word, it is not easy for us to be sure what it means. John Boswell in his recent study denies that it refers to a homosexual person in general but rather specifically to the male prostitute who could serve heterosexual or homosexual clients. At any rate, the sin is prostitution, not homosexuality in itself. (p. 14) These words are the words used both in Corinthians and in I Timothy 1:10 which are commonly translated into modern bibles as "homosexual", "effeminate," and "self-indulgent." In these enlightened times, however,there is no indication that such terms are in any way connected to homosexuality in itself. In fact, according to Is the Homosexual my Neighbor by Letha Scanzoni and Virginia Ramey Mollenkott: the idea of a lifelong homosexual orientation or "condition" is never mentioned in the Bible... Bible writers assumed that everyone was heterosexual and that in times of moral decay, some heterosexuals peopled did some strange and unnatural things with each other. Since the Bible is silent about the homosexual condition, those who want to understand it must rely on the findings of modern behavorial science research... (p. 71) ----------------------------------------------------------------- reference for this article can be given. Not sure if it is to be put in the post or not. I believe their was mention a while ago not to do as such as to not promote any form of religious websites. So if source needs to be given, please inform and I will give. So what are you saying? We know 1Tim. 1:10 does not contain the Greek word for Effeminate. The word has great value to what the scriptures are saying and relating the words of Yahshua. We know soft clothing and the rich have little in common with the word Homosexual. Where it is translated other than Soft ( kings houses are in) raiment.It shows Yahshua's beginning of him Teaching and what he taught about just as James 1:27 says and Jer. So what do u mean? Blessings...Miles Ok ya'll want a verse God tells us straight up homosexuality is wrong? Leviticus 18:22 22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. |
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It's not just old testament that God looks down on homosexuality. Jude 1:7 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Notice going after strange flesh ------------------ 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Notice effeminate. Effeminate is feminine characteristics. And homosexuals generally have those, they speak like a woman, they present themselves like a woman, and so much more. ---------------------- 1 Timothy 1:9-10 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Again with defiling themselves with mankind, this falls into the category of strange flesh. ----------------------- Can find more if you wish but I think this is enough to show homosexuality being sinful. Unless you're one that has to be told a million times before you start to listen. God has told us many upon many times homosexuality is wrong in both the old and new testament. The exercise of stretching the mind is a frivolous and fruitless waste of time. For a real mind work out, try learning something for the sake of knowledge instead of making something up for the sake of reinforcing a bias. Try reaching into the historic record and finding the original translation of the word effeminate and how it related to the cultural view of those who used it in the biblical times in which it was written. For a much easier brain workout, try looking into the difference between the two definitions of the word ‘Theory”. That way it can be applied more appropriately if future discussions. \ Shalom Glad you all brought this up as it is strange what the wording is and means as... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of Yahweh? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites NKJV as you can see Homosexual is translated for Effeminate... at least in the NKJV curious as I am lets see what a few other versions say ... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV 1 Cor 6:9 nor adulterers, nor effeminate, Seems the old used Effeminate and the New version used Homosexuals.. yet niether add up.... malakos NT:3120 malakos (mal-ak-os'); of uncertain affinity; soft, i.e. fine (clothing); figuratively, a catamite: KJV - effeminate, soft. From the Greek interlinier text.. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.) Effimate seems to clothing or something soft. How did they get to basically from reading this Homosexual from soft clothing? The word is used 4x according to the Englishmans concordance. The Englishmans concordance takes the actual Greek or Hebrew word and shows you everywhere that Greek word in this case is and how it was translated into English. Gives alot of insite to phrases and uses of words. Like these 3 verses for Effeminate.. Matt 11:8 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. KJV Luke 7:25 25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts. KJV 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV and the NKJV says HOMOSEXUAL The word Effeminate and Homosexual does not seem to fit. How are those 4 uses of the same Greek word equal to each other? Homosexual and Soft Clothing. Something is arye I will agree. If we look at some scripture before and after we may see more... One thing to notice its Disciple getting onto another Disciple not everyone else... 1 Cor 6:1-12 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the assembly. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of Master Yahshua, and by the Spirit of Yahweh. 12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. KJV One thing he is Scolding them... You can not even get along yourselves how can you justify the word? A very true reasoning.. Live what you Preach... Also if you are wronged what is it to you? If you really are the children of Yahweh why do you even care? Let it be.. Do what your Heart and mind tells you is right, to do and all will be fine.. Just as Yahshua said... Matt 5:39-40 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. KJV Resist not evil.. Its nothing to you let it go.. Even speaks of sueing somebody.Why? All this makes since with why Efferinate was used.. Soft..Royalty,Men with more than they need the rich. remember ... where Effeminate was used for soft when Yahshua asked what did u come here to see? Matt 11:7-9 7 And as they departed, Yahshua began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT (Effeminate) raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. 9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. Effeminate by Scriptual use is the Ones Who are in control.. The leaders those who look down on you and have no Hospitality. It should never of been translated like it was.. Its Traditional Scribing. Matt 19:23-24 23 Then said Yahshua unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. KJV This is who Effeminate refers to not Homosexuals but possibly Sodom and Gormorrah. Why? Remember Lot is Abrahams nephew. Lot chose to live where he did.. He did not have to. Abraham had 323 servents that worked for him.. Lot could of been with his uncle but he chose not to. Lots 2 daughters were used too the way it was thier.. They saw life everyday. Lot though when the 2 Angels came he was sitting outside the city and i am sure many more were. He though was Hospitable and humbling to the stranger. Yahweh talks alot about the Stranger the Homeless the Widow and the orphan.. He says when you run across these you are to Humble yourself and pay Homage. This is why you have extra to help when the need is thier. The rich worries about themselves they have respect to themselves.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall Love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV Lot is called righteous and alot of people have a hard time with this. He was going to turn his daughters over to the town mob.. Lot was following the Law of Righteousness.. thats why he is called Righteous. The Law of Righteousness we just read.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV He knew that they did not want his daughters why would they? They seen them all the time. Lot though knew if a stranger or anyone is under your roof you act as if they are one of your own. You protect them the best you can.Its the Law of Righteousness of Putting others 1st. Some of the sins of Sodom and Gommorah was thier Pride and everything goes as we want, when we want it.. Not Hospitable If you read more of the scriptures around where Effeminate and Soft are found. You will find in all of them its saying those who think they are 2 good are out. Its as simple as that... Blessings of Shalom..Miles Female characteristics and homosexuality have a whole lot to do with one another. Most male homosexuals tend to have a lot of female characteristics in the way they talk, their everyday desires, their sexual desires, quite a bit of similarities between male homosexuals and females. I CORINTHIANS 6:9-10 reads: Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. I placed two words in brackets. The first one, "malakoi", Scroggs (p. 14) says "literally means 'soft' and is no technical term for a homosexual." It apparently refers to young boys who would take the "recepient" position in anal sex, often for money. It's also translated in some Bibles as "morally weak". "Aresenokoitai", on the other hand, is clearly a sexual term but, according to Scroggs: Since... the New Testament occurrences are the earliest appearances of the word, it is not easy for us to be sure what it means. John Boswell in his recent study denies that it refers to a homosexual person in general but rather specifically to the male prostitute who could serve heterosexual or homosexual clients. At any rate, the sin is prostitution, not homosexuality in itself. (p. 14) These words are the words used both in Corinthians and in I Timothy 1:10 which are commonly translated into modern bibles as "homosexual", "effeminate," and "self-indulgent." In these enlightened times, however,there is no indication that such terms are in any way connected to homosexuality in itself. In fact, according to Is the Homosexual my Neighbor by Letha Scanzoni and Virginia Ramey Mollenkott: the idea of a lifelong homosexual orientation or "condition" is never mentioned in the Bible... Bible writers assumed that everyone was heterosexual and that in times of moral decay, some heterosexuals peopled did some strange and unnatural things with each other. Since the Bible is silent about the homosexual condition, those who want to understand it must rely on the findings of modern behavorial science research... (p. 71) ----------------------------------------------------------------- reference for this article can be given. Not sure if it is to be put in the post or not. I believe their was mention a while ago not to do as such as to not promote any form of religious websites. So if source needs to be given, please inform and I will give. So what are you saying? We know 1Tim. 1:10 does not contain the Greek word for Effeminate. The word has great value to what the scriptures are saying and relating the words of Yahshua. We know soft clothing and the rich have little in common with the word Homosexual. Where it is translated other than Soft ( kings houses are in) raiment.It shows Yahshua's beginning of him Teaching and what he taught about just as James 1:27 says and Jer. So what do u mean? Blessings...Miles Ok ya'll want a verse God tells us straight up homosexuality is wrong? Leviticus 18:22 22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Leviticus 20:13 13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. |
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It's not just old testament that God looks down on homosexuality. Jude 1:7 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Notice going after strange flesh ------------------ 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Notice effeminate. Effeminate is feminine characteristics. And homosexuals generally have those, they speak like a woman, they present themselves like a woman, and so much more. ---------------------- 1 Timothy 1:9-10 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Again with defiling themselves with mankind, this falls into the category of strange flesh. ----------------------- Can find more if you wish but I think this is enough to show homosexuality being sinful. Unless you're one that has to be told a million times before you start to listen. God has told us many upon many times homosexuality is wrong in both the old and new testament. The exercise of stretching the mind is a frivolous and fruitless waste of time. For a real mind work out, try learning something for the sake of knowledge instead of making something up for the sake of reinforcing a bias. Try reaching into the historic record and finding the original translation of the word effeminate and how it related to the cultural view of those who used it in the biblical times in which it was written. For a much easier brain workout, try looking into the difference between the two definitions of the word ‘Theory”. That way it can be applied more appropriately if future discussions. \ Shalom Glad you all brought this up as it is strange what the wording is and means as... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of Yahweh? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites NKJV as you can see Homosexual is translated for Effeminate... at least in the NKJV curious as I am lets see what a few other versions say ... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV 1 Cor 6:9 nor adulterers, nor effeminate, Seems the old used Effeminate and the New version used Homosexuals.. yet niether add up.... malakos NT:3120 malakos (mal-ak-os'); of uncertain affinity; soft, i.e. fine (clothing); figuratively, a catamite: KJV - effeminate, soft. From the Greek interlinier text.. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.) Effimate seems to clothing or something soft. How did they get to basically from reading this Homosexual from soft clothing? The word is used 4x according to the Englishmans concordance. The Englishmans concordance takes the actual Greek or Hebrew word and shows you everywhere that Greek word in this case is and how it was translated into English. Gives alot of insite to phrases and uses of words. Like these 3 verses for Effeminate.. Matt 11:8 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. KJV Luke 7:25 25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts. KJV 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV and the NKJV says HOMOSEXUAL The word Effeminate and Homosexual does not seem to fit. How are those 4 uses of the same Greek word equal to each other? Homosexual and Soft Clothing. Something is arye I will agree. If we look at some scripture before and after we may see more... One thing to notice its Disciple getting onto another Disciple not everyone else... 1 Cor 6:1-12 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the assembly. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of Master Yahshua, and by the Spirit of Yahweh. 12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. KJV One thing he is Scolding them... You can not even get along yourselves how can you justify the word? A very true reasoning.. Live what you Preach... Also if you are wronged what is it to you? If you really are the children of Yahweh why do you even care? Let it be.. Do what your Heart and mind tells you is right, to do and all will be fine.. Just as Yahshua said... Matt 5:39-40 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. KJV Resist not evil.. Its nothing to you let it go.. Even speaks of sueing somebody.Why? All this makes since with why Efferinate was used.. Soft..Royalty,Men with more than they need the rich. remember ... where Effeminate was used for soft when Yahshua asked what did u come here to see? Matt 11:7-9 7 And as they departed, Yahshua began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT (Effeminate) raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. 9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. Effeminate by Scriptual use is the Ones Who are in control.. The leaders those who look down on you and have no Hospitality. It should never of been translated like it was.. Its Traditional Scribing. Matt 19:23-24 23 Then said Yahshua unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. KJV This is who Effeminate refers to not Homosexuals but possibly Sodom and Gormorrah. Why? Remember Lot is Abrahams nephew. Lot chose to live where he did.. He did not have to. Abraham had 323 servents that worked for him.. Lot could of been with his uncle but he chose not to. Lots 2 daughters were used too the way it was thier.. They saw life everyday. Lot though when the 2 Angels came he was sitting outside the city and i am sure many more were. He though was Hospitable and humbling to the stranger. Yahweh talks alot about the Stranger the Homeless the Widow and the orphan.. He says when you run across these you are to Humble yourself and pay Homage. This is why you have extra to help when the need is thier. The rich worries about themselves they have respect to themselves.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall Love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV Lot is called righteous and alot of people have a hard time with this. He was going to turn his daughters over to the town mob.. Lot was following the Law of Righteousness.. thats why he is called Righteous. The Law of Righteousness we just read.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV He knew that they did not want his daughters why would they? They seen them all the time. Lot though knew if a stranger or anyone is under your roof you act as if they are one of your own. You protect them the best you can.Its the Law of Righteousness of Putting others 1st. Some of the sins of Sodom and Gommorah was thier Pride and everything goes as we want, when we want it.. Not Hospitable If you read more of the scriptures around where Effeminate and Soft are found. You will find in all of them its saying those who think they are 2 good are out. Its as simple as that... Blessings of Shalom..Miles Female characteristics and homosexuality have a whole lot to do with one another. Most male homosexuals tend to have a lot of female characteristics in the way they talk, their everyday desires, their sexual desires, quite a bit of similarities between male homosexuals and females. I CORINTHIANS 6:9-10 reads: Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. I placed two words in brackets. The first one, "malakoi", Scroggs (p. 14) says "literally means 'soft' and is no technical term for a homosexual." It apparently refers to young boys who would take the "recepient" position in anal sex, often for money. It's also translated in some Bibles as "morally weak". "Aresenokoitai", on the other hand, is clearly a sexual term but, according to Scroggs: Since... the New Testament occurrences are the earliest appearances of the word, it is not easy for us to be sure what it means. John Boswell in his recent study denies that it refers to a homosexual person in general but rather specifically to the male prostitute who could serve heterosexual or homosexual clients. At any rate, the sin is prostitution, not homosexuality in itself. (p. 14) These words are the words used both in Corinthians and in I Timothy 1:10 which are commonly translated into modern bibles as "homosexual", "effeminate," and "self-indulgent." In these enlightened times, however,there is no indication that such terms are in any way connected to homosexuality in itself. In fact, according to Is the Homosexual my Neighbor by Letha Scanzoni and Virginia Ramey Mollenkott: the idea of a lifelong homosexual orientation or "condition" is never mentioned in the Bible... Bible writers assumed that everyone was heterosexual and that in times of moral decay, some heterosexuals peopled did some strange and unnatural things with each other. Since the Bible is silent about the homosexual condition, those who want to understand it must rely on the findings of modern behavorial science research... (p. 71) ----------------------------------------------------------------- reference for this article can be given. Not sure if it is to be put in the post or not. I believe their was mention a while ago not to do as such as to not promote any form of religious websites. So if source needs to be given, please inform and I will give. So what are you saying? We know 1Tim. 1:10 does not contain the Greek word for Effeminate. The word has great value to what the scriptures are saying and relating the words of Yahshua. We know soft clothing and the rich have little in common with the word Homosexual. Where it is translated other than Soft ( kings houses are in) raiment.It shows Yahshua's beginning of him Teaching and what he taught about just as James 1:27 says and Jer. So what do u mean? Blessings...Miles Ok ya'll want a verse God tells us straight up homosexuality is wrong? Leviticus 18:22 22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Leviticus 20:13 13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Sorry wasn't thinking. Those are from old testament. Here's some from new testament. I apologize for the misunderstanding. I know some of these verses have already been referenced I just wanted to put them in a collection. If you take the bible as a whole and not a verse here and there you'll get a much better understanding of it. With the collection of the following verses you can see homosexuality to be wrong. It is unproductive. The reason for sexual action is purely for reproduction and filling the world as God instructed us to do. This can not be done with homosexuality. Homosexuality is purely for physical please. We are specifically told not to be sexually immoral. And in all technicality homosexuality is immoral. It's becoming more and more accepted in the society, but nevertheless is still looked upon as immoral. That is why they are fighting for gay rights and so on. Romans 1:26-27 26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. --------------------------- 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. ------------------------------- 1 Timothy 1:8-11 8But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. |
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It's not just old testament that God looks down on homosexuality. Jude 1:7 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Notice going after strange flesh ------------------ 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Notice effeminate. Effeminate is feminine characteristics. And homosexuals generally have those, they speak like a woman, they present themselves like a woman, and so much more. ---------------------- 1 Timothy 1:9-10 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Again with defiling themselves with mankind, this falls into the category of strange flesh. ----------------------- Can find more if you wish but I think this is enough to show homosexuality being sinful. Unless you're one that has to be told a million times before you start to listen. God has told us many upon many times homosexuality is wrong in both the old and new testament. The exercise of stretching the mind is a frivolous and fruitless waste of time. For a real mind work out, try learning something for the sake of knowledge instead of making something up for the sake of reinforcing a bias. Try reaching into the historic record and finding the original translation of the word effeminate and how it related to the cultural view of those who used it in the biblical times in which it was written. For a much easier brain workout, try looking into the difference between the two definitions of the word ‘Theory”. That way it can be applied more appropriately if future discussions. \ Shalom Glad you all brought this up as it is strange what the wording is and means as... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of Yahweh? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites NKJV as you can see Homosexual is translated for Effeminate... at least in the NKJV curious as I am lets see what a few other versions say ... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV 1 Cor 6:9 nor adulterers, nor effeminate, Seems the old used Effeminate and the New version used Homosexuals.. yet niether add up.... malakos NT:3120 malakos (mal-ak-os'); of uncertain affinity; soft, i.e. fine (clothing); figuratively, a catamite: KJV - effeminate, soft. From the Greek interlinier text.. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.) Effimate seems to clothing or something soft. How did they get to basically from reading this Homosexual from soft clothing? The word is used 4x according to the Englishmans concordance. The Englishmans concordance takes the actual Greek or Hebrew word and shows you everywhere that Greek word in this case is and how it was translated into English. Gives alot of insite to phrases and uses of words. Like these 3 verses for Effeminate.. Matt 11:8 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. KJV Luke 7:25 25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts. KJV 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV and the NKJV says HOMOSEXUAL The word Effeminate and Homosexual does not seem to fit. How are those 4 uses of the same Greek word equal to each other? Homosexual and Soft Clothing. Something is arye I will agree. If we look at some scripture before and after we may see more... One thing to notice its Disciple getting onto another Disciple not everyone else... 1 Cor 6:1-12 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the assembly. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of Master Yahshua, and by the Spirit of Yahweh. 12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. KJV One thing he is Scolding them... You can not even get along yourselves how can you justify the word? A very true reasoning.. Live what you Preach... Also if you are wronged what is it to you? If you really are the children of Yahweh why do you even care? Let it be.. Do what your Heart and mind tells you is right, to do and all will be fine.. Just as Yahshua said... Matt 5:39-40 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. KJV Resist not evil.. Its nothing to you let it go.. Even speaks of sueing somebody.Why? All this makes since with why Efferinate was used.. Soft..Royalty,Men with more than they need the rich. remember ... where Effeminate was used for soft when Yahshua asked what did u come here to see? Matt 11:7-9 7 And as they departed, Yahshua began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT (Effeminate) raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. 9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. Effeminate by Scriptual use is the Ones Who are in control.. The leaders those who look down on you and have no Hospitality. It should never of been translated like it was.. Its Traditional Scribing. Matt 19:23-24 23 Then said Yahshua unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. KJV This is who Effeminate refers to not Homosexuals but possibly Sodom and Gormorrah. Why? Remember Lot is Abrahams nephew. Lot chose to live where he did.. He did not have to. Abraham had 323 servents that worked for him.. Lot could of been with his uncle but he chose not to. Lots 2 daughters were used too the way it was thier.. They saw life everyday. Lot though when the 2 Angels came he was sitting outside the city and i am sure many more were. He though was Hospitable and humbling to the stranger. Yahweh talks alot about the Stranger the Homeless the Widow and the orphan.. He says when you run across these you are to Humble yourself and pay Homage. This is why you have extra to help when the need is thier. The rich worries about themselves they have respect to themselves.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall Love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV Lot is called righteous and alot of people have a hard time with this. He was going to turn his daughters over to the town mob.. Lot was following the Law of Righteousness.. thats why he is called Righteous. The Law of Righteousness we just read.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV He knew that they did not want his daughters why would they? They seen them all the time. Lot though knew if a stranger or anyone is under your roof you act as if they are one of your own. You protect them the best you can.Its the Law of Righteousness of Putting others 1st. Some of the sins of Sodom and Gommorah was thier Pride and everything goes as we want, when we want it.. Not Hospitable If you read more of the scriptures around where Effeminate and Soft are found. You will find in all of them its saying those who think they are 2 good are out. Its as simple as that... Blessings of Shalom..Miles Female characteristics and homosexuality have a whole lot to do with one another. Most male homosexuals tend to have a lot of female characteristics in the way they talk, their everyday desires, their sexual desires, quite a bit of similarities between male homosexuals and females. I CORINTHIANS 6:9-10 reads: Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. I placed two words in brackets. The first one, "malakoi", Scroggs (p. 14) says "literally means 'soft' and is no technical term for a homosexual." It apparently refers to young boys who would take the "recepient" position in anal sex, often for money. It's also translated in some Bibles as "morally weak". "Aresenokoitai", on the other hand, is clearly a sexual term but, according to Scroggs: Since... the New Testament occurrences are the earliest appearances of the word, it is not easy for us to be sure what it means. John Boswell in his recent study denies that it refers to a homosexual person in general but rather specifically to the male prostitute who could serve heterosexual or homosexual clients. At any rate, the sin is prostitution, not homosexuality in itself. (p. 14) These words are the words used both in Corinthians and in I Timothy 1:10 which are commonly translated into modern bibles as "homosexual", "effeminate," and "self-indulgent." In these enlightened times, however,there is no indication that such terms are in any way connected to homosexuality in itself. In fact, according to Is the Homosexual my Neighbor by Letha Scanzoni and Virginia Ramey Mollenkott: the idea of a lifelong homosexual orientation or "condition" is never mentioned in the Bible... Bible writers assumed that everyone was heterosexual and that in times of moral decay, some heterosexuals peopled did some strange and unnatural things with each other. Since the Bible is silent about the homosexual condition, those who want to understand it must rely on the findings of modern behavorial science research... (p. 71) ----------------------------------------------------------------- reference for this article can be given. Not sure if it is to be put in the post or not. I believe their was mention a while ago not to do as such as to not promote any form of religious websites. So if source needs to be given, please inform and I will give. So what are you saying? We know 1Tim. 1:10 does not contain the Greek word for Effeminate. The word has great value to what the scriptures are saying and relating the words of Yahshua. We know soft clothing and the rich have little in common with the word Homosexual. Where it is translated other than Soft ( kings houses are in) raiment.It shows Yahshua's beginning of him Teaching and what he taught about just as James 1:27 says and Jer. So what do u mean? Blessings...Miles Ok ya'll want a verse God tells us straight up homosexuality is wrong? Leviticus 18:22 22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Leviticus 20:13 13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Sorry wasn't thinking. Those are from old testament. Here's some from new testament. I apologize for the misunderstanding. I know some of these verses have already been referenced I just wanted to put them in a collection. If you take the bible as a whole and not a verse here and there you'll get a much better understanding of it. With the collection of the following verses you can see homosexuality to be wrong. It is unproductive. The reason for sexual action is purely for reproduction and filling the world as God instructed us to do. This can not be done with homosexuality. Homosexuality is purely for physical please. We are specifically told not to be sexually immoral. And in all technicality homosexuality is immoral. It's becoming more and more accepted in the society, but nevertheless is still looked upon as immoral. That is why they are fighting for gay rights and so on. Romans 1:26-27 26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. --------------------------- 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. ------------------------------- 1 Timothy 1:8-11 8But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. This finalizes that homosexuality to be immoral, sinful, and not accepted by God. Notice "no sodomites". A sodomite is one that practices sodomy and sodomy is anal sex. And that is exactly what homosexuality is. Thank you for your time my friends, may God be with you. "Can you not realize that the unholy will not fall heir to the kingdom of God? Do not deceive yourselves: no fornicators, idolaters, or adulterers, no sodomites, thieves, misers, drunkards, no drunkards, no slanderers or robbers will inherit God's kingdom." 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 |
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It's not just old testament that God looks down on homosexuality. Jude 1:7 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Notice going after strange flesh ------------------ 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Notice effeminate. Effeminate is feminine characteristics. And homosexuals generally have those, they speak like a woman, they present themselves like a woman, and so much more. ---------------------- 1 Timothy 1:9-10 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Again with defiling themselves with mankind, this falls into the category of strange flesh. ----------------------- Can find more if you wish but I think this is enough to show homosexuality being sinful. Unless you're one that has to be told a million times before you start to listen. God has told us many upon many times homosexuality is wrong in both the old and new testament. The exercise of stretching the mind is a frivolous and fruitless waste of time. For a real mind work out, try learning something for the sake of knowledge instead of making something up for the sake of reinforcing a bias. Try reaching into the historic record and finding the original translation of the word effeminate and how it related to the cultural view of those who used it in the biblical times in which it was written. For a much easier brain workout, try looking into the difference between the two definitions of the word ‘Theory”. That way it can be applied more appropriately if future discussions. \ Shalom Glad you all brought this up as it is strange what the wording is and means as... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of Yahweh? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites NKJV as you can see Homosexual is translated for Effeminate... at least in the NKJV curious as I am lets see what a few other versions say ... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV 1 Cor 6:9 nor adulterers, nor effeminate, Seems the old used Effeminate and the New version used Homosexuals.. yet niether add up.... malakos NT:3120 malakos (mal-ak-os'); of uncertain affinity; soft, i.e. fine (clothing); figuratively, a catamite: KJV - effeminate, soft. From the Greek interlinier text.. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.) Effimate seems to clothing or something soft. How did they get to basically from reading this Homosexual from soft clothing? The word is used 4x according to the Englishmans concordance. The Englishmans concordance takes the actual Greek or Hebrew word and shows you everywhere that Greek word in this case is and how it was translated into English. Gives alot of insite to phrases and uses of words. Like these 3 verses for Effeminate.. Matt 11:8 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. KJV Luke 7:25 25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts. KJV 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV and the NKJV says HOMOSEXUAL The word Effeminate and Homosexual does not seem to fit. How are those 4 uses of the same Greek word equal to each other? Homosexual and Soft Clothing. Something is arye I will agree. If we look at some scripture before and after we may see more... One thing to notice its Disciple getting onto another Disciple not everyone else... 1 Cor 6:1-12 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the assembly. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of Master Yahshua, and by the Spirit of Yahweh. 12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. KJV One thing he is Scolding them... You can not even get along yourselves how can you justify the word? A very true reasoning.. Live what you Preach... Also if you are wronged what is it to you? If you really are the children of Yahweh why do you even care? Let it be.. Do what your Heart and mind tells you is right, to do and all will be fine.. Just as Yahshua said... Matt 5:39-40 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. KJV Resist not evil.. Its nothing to you let it go.. Even speaks of sueing somebody.Why? All this makes since with why Efferinate was used.. Soft..Royalty,Men with more than they need the rich. remember ... where Effeminate was used for soft when Yahshua asked what did u come here to see? Matt 11:7-9 7 And as they departed, Yahshua began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT (Effeminate) raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. 9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. Effeminate by Scriptual use is the Ones Who are in control.. The leaders those who look down on you and have no Hospitality. It should never of been translated like it was.. Its Traditional Scribing. Matt 19:23-24 23 Then said Yahshua unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. KJV This is who Effeminate refers to not Homosexuals but possibly Sodom and Gormorrah. Why? Remember Lot is Abrahams nephew. Lot chose to live where he did.. He did not have to. Abraham had 323 servents that worked for him.. Lot could of been with his uncle but he chose not to. Lots 2 daughters were used too the way it was thier.. They saw life everyday. Lot though when the 2 Angels came he was sitting outside the city and i am sure many more were. He though was Hospitable and humbling to the stranger. Yahweh talks alot about the Stranger the Homeless the Widow and the orphan.. He says when you run across these you are to Humble yourself and pay Homage. This is why you have extra to help when the need is thier. The rich worries about themselves they have respect to themselves.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall Love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV Lot is called righteous and alot of people have a hard time with this. He was going to turn his daughters over to the town mob.. Lot was following the Law of Righteousness.. thats why he is called Righteous. The Law of Righteousness we just read.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV He knew that they did not want his daughters why would they? They seen them all the time. Lot though knew if a stranger or anyone is under your roof you act as if they are one of your own. You protect them the best you can.Its the Law of Righteousness of Putting others 1st. Some of the sins of Sodom and Gommorah was thier Pride and everything goes as we want, when we want it.. Not Hospitable If you read more of the scriptures around where Effeminate and Soft are found. You will find in all of them its saying those who think they are 2 good are out. Its as simple as that... Blessings of Shalom..Miles Female characteristics and homosexuality have a whole lot to do with one another. Most male homosexuals tend to have a lot of female characteristics in the way they talk, their everyday desires, their sexual desires, quite a bit of similarities between male homosexuals and females. I CORINTHIANS 6:9-10 reads: Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. I placed two words in brackets. The first one, "malakoi", Scroggs (p. 14) says "literally means 'soft' and is no technical term for a homosexual." It apparently refers to young boys who would take the "recepient" position in anal sex, often for money. It's also translated in some Bibles as "morally weak". "Aresenokoitai", on the other hand, is clearly a sexual term but, according to Scroggs: Since... the New Testament occurrences are the earliest appearances of the word, it is not easy for us to be sure what it means. John Boswell in his recent study denies that it refers to a homosexual person in general but rather specifically to the male prostitute who could serve heterosexual or homosexual clients. At any rate, the sin is prostitution, not homosexuality in itself. (p. 14) These words are the words used both in Corinthians and in I Timothy 1:10 which are commonly translated into modern bibles as "homosexual", "effeminate," and "self-indulgent." In these enlightened times, however,there is no indication that such terms are in any way connected to homosexuality in itself. In fact, according to Is the Homosexual my Neighbor by Letha Scanzoni and Virginia Ramey Mollenkott: the idea of a lifelong homosexual orientation or "condition" is never mentioned in the Bible... Bible writers assumed that everyone was heterosexual and that in times of moral decay, some heterosexuals peopled did some strange and unnatural things with each other. Since the Bible is silent about the homosexual condition, those who want to understand it must rely on the findings of modern behavorial science research... (p. 71) ----------------------------------------------------------------- reference for this article can be given. Not sure if it is to be put in the post or not. I believe their was mention a while ago not to do as such as to not promote any form of religious websites. So if source needs to be given, please inform and I will give. So what are you saying? We know 1Tim. 1:10 does not contain the Greek word for Effeminate. The word has great value to what the scriptures are saying and relating the words of Yahshua. We know soft clothing and the rich have little in common with the word Homosexual. Where it is translated other than Soft ( kings houses are in) raiment.It shows Yahshua's beginning of him Teaching and what he taught about just as James 1:27 says and Jer. So what do u mean? Blessings...Miles Ok ya'll want a verse God tells us straight up homosexuality is wrong? Leviticus 18:22 22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. I never said Homosexuality was not wrong.. Just that where Effeminate was is not speaking of it.. But instead of the Privelidged and and those who are self indulgent.. a Me Me Me personality. Yahshua said if he would of come when Sodom and Gommorah was here they would of repented.. But the high and Powerful pharasees would not. Just like the ministers of sin today point the finger yet break the covenent willingly.. Are they somehow better? Yahshua says no they are worse. whats an Abomination? Isa 66:17 7 "Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves, To go to the gardens After an idol in the midst, Eating swine's flesh and the abomination and the mouse, Shall be consumed together," says Yahweh. . NKJV sheqets OT:8263 sheqets (sheh'-kets); from OT:8262; filth, i.e. (figuratively and specifically) an idolatrous object sheqets OT:8262 shaqats (shaw-kats'); a primitive root; to be filthy, i.e. (intensively) to loathe, pollute: KJV - abhor, make abominable, have in abomination, detest, utterly. filth to Pollute. The Holy Spirit can not live where thier is filth or in one who is polluted. 8263 says its..an idolatrous object also.. or they are a combination to be Abominable. yet in Isa 66:17 is future tense when Yahshua returns and he speaks of eating Swines flesh. The Ministers of sin say its been cleansed. How? Yet where Abomionable and Idol worship is we have eating SWINES FLESH with it. Before we can tell the world this is a sin we need to know what sin is. Rom 7:7-12 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law . For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet." 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law , but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. NKJV Here it says The Commandment and Law are Holy. Its what killed us made us understand its justice is good and saved us or woke us up to the Beauty of it and it became Holy in us. Heb 8:10-11 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts ; and I will be their Elohim, and they shall be My people. NKJV Isa 66:17 will happen and those who do not have Heb 8:10-11 written in them are the same ministers who convict themselves on the Platform they Judged and preached to others Do not sin willingly when they themselves sin openly and proudly making the Commandments of Yahweh of No Effect.. Shalom...Miles |
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It's not just old testament that God looks down on homosexuality. Jude 1:7 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Notice going after strange flesh ------------------ 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Notice effeminate. Effeminate is feminine characteristics. And homosexuals generally have those, they speak like a woman, they present themselves like a woman, and so much more. ---------------------- 1 Timothy 1:9-10 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Again with defiling themselves with mankind, this falls into the category of strange flesh. ----------------------- Can find more if you wish but I think this is enough to show homosexuality being sinful. Unless you're one that has to be told a million times before you start to listen. God has told us many upon many times homosexuality is wrong in both the old and new testament. The exercise of stretching the mind is a frivolous and fruitless waste of time. For a real mind work out, try learning something for the sake of knowledge instead of making something up for the sake of reinforcing a bias. Try reaching into the historic record and finding the original translation of the word effeminate and how it related to the cultural view of those who used it in the biblical times in which it was written. For a much easier brain workout, try looking into the difference between the two definitions of the word ‘Theory”. That way it can be applied more appropriately if future discussions. \ Shalom Glad you all brought this up as it is strange what the wording is and means as... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of Yahweh? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites NKJV as you can see Homosexual is translated for Effeminate... at least in the NKJV curious as I am lets see what a few other versions say ... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV 1 Cor 6:9 nor adulterers, nor effeminate, Seems the old used Effeminate and the New version used Homosexuals.. yet niether add up.... malakos NT:3120 malakos (mal-ak-os'); of uncertain affinity; soft, i.e. fine (clothing); figuratively, a catamite: KJV - effeminate, soft. From the Greek interlinier text.. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.) Effimate seems to clothing or something soft. How did they get to basically from reading this Homosexual from soft clothing? The word is used 4x according to the Englishmans concordance. The Englishmans concordance takes the actual Greek or Hebrew word and shows you everywhere that Greek word in this case is and how it was translated into English. Gives alot of insite to phrases and uses of words. Like these 3 verses for Effeminate.. Matt 11:8 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. KJV Luke 7:25 25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts. KJV 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV and the NKJV says HOMOSEXUAL The word Effeminate and Homosexual does not seem to fit. How are those 4 uses of the same Greek word equal to each other? Homosexual and Soft Clothing. Something is arye I will agree. If we look at some scripture before and after we may see more... One thing to notice its Disciple getting onto another Disciple not everyone else... 1 Cor 6:1-12 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the assembly. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of Master Yahshua, and by the Spirit of Yahweh. 12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. KJV One thing he is Scolding them... You can not even get along yourselves how can you justify the word? A very true reasoning.. Live what you Preach... Also if you are wronged what is it to you? If you really are the children of Yahweh why do you even care? Let it be.. Do what your Heart and mind tells you is right, to do and all will be fine.. Just as Yahshua said... Matt 5:39-40 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. KJV Resist not evil.. Its nothing to you let it go.. Even speaks of sueing somebody.Why? All this makes since with why Efferinate was used.. Soft..Royalty,Men with more than they need the rich. remember ... where Effeminate was used for soft when Yahshua asked what did u come here to see? Matt 11:7-9 7 And as they departed, Yahshua began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT (Effeminate) raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. 9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. Effeminate by Scriptual use is the Ones Who are in control.. The leaders those who look down on you and have no Hospitality. It should never of been translated like it was.. Its Traditional Scribing. Matt 19:23-24 23 Then said Yahshua unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. KJV This is who Effeminate refers to not Homosexuals but possibly Sodom and Gormorrah. Why? Remember Lot is Abrahams nephew. Lot chose to live where he did.. He did not have to. Abraham had 323 servents that worked for him.. Lot could of been with his uncle but he chose not to. Lots 2 daughters were used too the way it was thier.. They saw life everyday. Lot though when the 2 Angels came he was sitting outside the city and i am sure many more were. He though was Hospitable and humbling to the stranger. Yahweh talks alot about the Stranger the Homeless the Widow and the orphan.. He says when you run across these you are to Humble yourself and pay Homage. This is why you have extra to help when the need is thier. The rich worries about themselves they have respect to themselves.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall Love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV Lot is called righteous and alot of people have a hard time with this. He was going to turn his daughters over to the town mob.. Lot was following the Law of Righteousness.. thats why he is called Righteous. The Law of Righteousness we just read.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV He knew that they did not want his daughters why would they? They seen them all the time. Lot though knew if a stranger or anyone is under your roof you act as if they are one of your own. You protect them the best you can.Its the Law of Righteousness of Putting others 1st. Some of the sins of Sodom and Gommorah was thier Pride and everything goes as we want, when we want it.. Not Hospitable If you read more of the scriptures around where Effeminate and Soft are found. You will find in all of them its saying those who think they are 2 good are out. Its as simple as that... Blessings of Shalom..Miles Female characteristics and homosexuality have a whole lot to do with one another. Most male homosexuals tend to have a lot of female characteristics in the way they talk, their everyday desires, their sexual desires, quite a bit of similarities between male homosexuals and females. I CORINTHIANS 6:9-10 reads: Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. I placed two words in brackets. The first one, "malakoi", Scroggs (p. 14) says "literally means 'soft' and is no technical term for a homosexual." It apparently refers to young boys who would take the "recepient" position in anal sex, often for money. It's also translated in some Bibles as "morally weak". "Aresenokoitai", on the other hand, is clearly a sexual term but, according to Scroggs: Since... the New Testament occurrences are the earliest appearances of the word, it is not easy for us to be sure what it means. John Boswell in his recent study denies that it refers to a homosexual person in general but rather specifically to the male prostitute who could serve heterosexual or homosexual clients. At any rate, the sin is prostitution, not homosexuality in itself. (p. 14) These words are the words used both in Corinthians and in I Timothy 1:10 which are commonly translated into modern bibles as "homosexual", "effeminate," and "self-indulgent." In these enlightened times, however,there is no indication that such terms are in any way connected to homosexuality in itself. In fact, according to Is the Homosexual my Neighbor by Letha Scanzoni and Virginia Ramey Mollenkott: the idea of a lifelong homosexual orientation or "condition" is never mentioned in the Bible... Bible writers assumed that everyone was heterosexual and that in times of moral decay, some heterosexuals peopled did some strange and unnatural things with each other. Since the Bible is silent about the homosexual condition, those who want to understand it must rely on the findings of modern behavorial science research... (p. 71) ----------------------------------------------------------------- reference for this article can be given. Not sure if it is to be put in the post or not. I believe their was mention a while ago not to do as such as to not promote any form of religious websites. So if source needs to be given, please inform and I will give. So what are you saying? We know 1Tim. 1:10 does not contain the Greek word for Effeminate. The word has great value to what the scriptures are saying and relating the words of Yahshua. We know soft clothing and the rich have little in common with the word Homosexual. Where it is translated other than Soft ( kings houses are in) raiment.It shows Yahshua's beginning of him Teaching and what he taught about just as James 1:27 says and Jer. So what do u mean? Blessings...Miles Ok ya'll want a verse God tells us straight up homosexuality is wrong? Leviticus 18:22 22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. I never said Homosexuality was not wrong.. Just that where Effeminate was is not speaking of it.. But instead of the Privelidged and and those who are self indulgent.. a Me Me Me personality. Yahshua said if he would of come when Sodom and Gommorah was here they would of repented.. But the high and Powerful pharasees would not. Just like the ministers of sin today point the finger yet break the covenent willingly.. Are they somehow better? Yahshua says no they are worse. whats an Abomination? Isa 66:17 7 "Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves, To go to the gardens After an idol in the midst, Eating swine's flesh and the abomination and the mouse, Shall be consumed together," says Yahweh. . NKJV sheqets OT:8263 sheqets (sheh'-kets); from OT:8262; filth, i.e. (figuratively and specifically) an idolatrous object sheqets OT:8262 shaqats (shaw-kats'); a primitive root; to be filthy, i.e. (intensively) to loathe, pollute: KJV - abhor, make abominable, have in abomination, detest, utterly. filth to Pollute. The Holy Spirit can not live where thier is filth or in one who is polluted. 8263 says its..an idolatrous object also.. or they are a combination to be Abominable. yet in Isa 66:17 is future tense when Yahshua returns and he speaks of eating Swines flesh. The Ministers of sin say its been cleansed. How? Yet where Abomionable and Idol worship is we have eating SWINES FLESH with it. Before we can tell the world this is a sin we need to know what sin is. Rom 7:7-12 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law . For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet." 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law , but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. NKJV Here it says The Commandment and Law are Holy. Its what killed us made us understand its justice is good and saved us or woke us up to the Beauty of it and it became Holy in us. Heb 8:10-11 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts ; and I will be their Elohim, and they shall be My people. NKJV Isa 66:17 will happen and those who do not have Heb 8:10-11 written in them are the same ministers who convict themselves on the Platform they Judged and preached to others Do not sin willingly when they themselves sin openly and proudly making the Commandments of Yahweh of No Effect.. Shalom...Miles Sin is the result of disobeying our father. Sin is a plague that infects us until forgiveness is sought after. Sin is going against the commandments we have been given, not just the 10 commandments but all the commandments given to us in the new testament. That is the covenant between man and God. And sorry about the verse you replied to here being from the old testament, wasn't thinking. But if you'll look above your response I have shown a better more direct commandment God has given us about homosexuality. |
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It's not just old testament that God looks down on homosexuality. Jude 1:7 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Notice going after strange flesh ------------------ 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Notice effeminate. Effeminate is feminine characteristics. And homosexuals generally have those, they speak like a woman, they present themselves like a woman, and so much more. ---------------------- 1 Timothy 1:9-10 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Again with defiling themselves with mankind, this falls into the category of strange flesh. ----------------------- Can find more if you wish but I think this is enough to show homosexuality being sinful. Unless you're one that has to be told a million times before you start to listen. God has told us many upon many times homosexuality is wrong in both the old and new testament. The exercise of stretching the mind is a frivolous and fruitless waste of time. For a real mind work out, try learning something for the sake of knowledge instead of making something up for the sake of reinforcing a bias. Try reaching into the historic record and finding the original translation of the word effeminate and how it related to the cultural view of those who used it in the biblical times in which it was written. For a much easier brain workout, try looking into the difference between the two definitions of the word ‘Theory”. That way it can be applied more appropriately if future discussions. \ Shalom Glad you all brought this up as it is strange what the wording is and means as... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of Yahweh? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites NKJV as you can see Homosexual is translated for Effeminate... at least in the NKJV curious as I am lets see what a few other versions say ... 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV 1 Cor 6:9 nor adulterers, nor effeminate, Seems the old used Effeminate and the New version used Homosexuals.. yet niether add up.... malakos NT:3120 malakos (mal-ak-os'); of uncertain affinity; soft, i.e. fine (clothing); figuratively, a catamite: KJV - effeminate, soft. From the Greek interlinier text.. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.) Effimate seems to clothing or something soft. How did they get to basically from reading this Homosexual from soft clothing? The word is used 4x according to the Englishmans concordance. The Englishmans concordance takes the actual Greek or Hebrew word and shows you everywhere that Greek word in this case is and how it was translated into English. Gives alot of insite to phrases and uses of words. Like these 3 verses for Effeminate.. Matt 11:8 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. KJV Luke 7:25 25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts. KJV 1 Cor 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, KJV and the NKJV says HOMOSEXUAL The word Effeminate and Homosexual does not seem to fit. How are those 4 uses of the same Greek word equal to each other? Homosexual and Soft Clothing. Something is arye I will agree. If we look at some scripture before and after we may see more... One thing to notice its Disciple getting onto another Disciple not everyone else... 1 Cor 6:1-12 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the assembly. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate , nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of Master Yahshua, and by the Spirit of Yahweh. 12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. KJV One thing he is Scolding them... You can not even get along yourselves how can you justify the word? A very true reasoning.. Live what you Preach... Also if you are wronged what is it to you? If you really are the children of Yahweh why do you even care? Let it be.. Do what your Heart and mind tells you is right, to do and all will be fine.. Just as Yahshua said... Matt 5:39-40 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. KJV Resist not evil.. Its nothing to you let it go.. Even speaks of sueing somebody.Why? All this makes since with why Efferinate was used.. Soft..Royalty,Men with more than they need the rich. remember ... where Effeminate was used for soft when Yahshua asked what did u come here to see? Matt 11:7-9 7 And as they departed, Yahshua began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in SOFT (Effeminate) raiment? behold, they that wear SOFT clothing are in kings' houses. 9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. Effeminate by Scriptual use is the Ones Who are in control.. The leaders those who look down on you and have no Hospitality. It should never of been translated like it was.. Its Traditional Scribing. Matt 19:23-24 23 Then said Yahshua unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. KJV This is who Effeminate refers to not Homosexuals but possibly Sodom and Gormorrah. Why? Remember Lot is Abrahams nephew. Lot chose to live where he did.. He did not have to. Abraham had 323 servents that worked for him.. Lot could of been with his uncle but he chose not to. Lots 2 daughters were used too the way it was thier.. They saw life everyday. Lot though when the 2 Angels came he was sitting outside the city and i am sure many more were. He though was Hospitable and humbling to the stranger. Yahweh talks alot about the Stranger the Homeless the Widow and the orphan.. He says when you run across these you are to Humble yourself and pay Homage. This is why you have extra to help when the need is thier. The rich worries about themselves they have respect to themselves.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall Love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV Lot is called righteous and alot of people have a hard time with this. He was going to turn his daughters over to the town mob.. Lot was following the Law of Righteousness.. thats why he is called Righteous. The Law of Righteousness we just read.. Lev 19:33-34 33'And if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him. 34 The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am Yahweh your Elohim. NKJV He knew that they did not want his daughters why would they? They seen them all the time. Lot though knew if a stranger or anyone is under your roof you act as if they are one of your own. You protect them the best you can.Its the Law of Righteousness of Putting others 1st. Some of the sins of Sodom and Gommorah was thier Pride and everything goes as we want, when we want it.. Not Hospitable If you read more of the scriptures around where Effeminate and Soft are found. You will find in all of them its saying those who think they are 2 good are out. Its as simple as that... Blessings of Shalom..Miles Female characteristics and homosexuality have a whole lot to do with one another. Most male homosexuals tend to have a lot of female characteristics in the way they talk, their everyday desires, their sexual desires, quite a bit of similarities between male homosexuals and females. I CORINTHIANS 6:9-10 reads: Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. I placed two words in brackets. The first one, "malakoi", Scroggs (p. 14) says "literally means 'soft' and is no technical term for a homosexual." It apparently refers to young boys who would take the "recepient" position in anal sex, often for money. It's also translated in some Bibles as "morally weak". "Aresenokoitai", on the other hand, is clearly a sexual term but, according to Scroggs: Since... the New Testament occurrences are the earliest appearances of the word, it is not easy for us to be sure what it means. John Boswell in his recent study denies that it refers to a homosexual person in general but rather specifically to the male prostitute who could serve heterosexual or homosexual clients. At any rate, the sin is prostitution, not homosexuality in itself. (p. 14) These words are the words used both in Corinthians and in I Timothy 1:10 which are commonly translated into modern bibles as "homosexual", "effeminate," and "self-indulgent." In these enlightened times, however,there is no indication that such terms are in any way connected to homosexuality in itself. In fact, according to Is the Homosexual my Neighbor by Letha Scanzoni and Virginia Ramey Mollenkott: the idea of a lifelong homosexual orientation or "condition" is never mentioned in the Bible... Bible writers assumed that everyone was heterosexual and that in times of moral decay, some heterosexuals peopled did some strange and unnatural things with each other. Since the Bible is silent about the homosexual condition, those who want to understand it must rely on the findings of modern behavorial science research... (p. 71) ----------------------------------------------------------------- reference for this article can be given. Not sure if it is to be put in the post or not. I believe their was mention a while ago not to do as such as to not promote any form of religious websites. So if source needs to be given, please inform and I will give. So what are you saying? We know 1Tim. 1:10 does not contain the Greek word for Effeminate. The word has great value to what the scriptures are saying and relating the words of Yahshua. We know soft clothing and the rich have little in common with the word Homosexual. Where it is translated other than Soft ( kings houses are in) raiment.It shows Yahshua's beginning of him Teaching and what he taught about just as James 1:27 says and Jer. So what do u mean? Blessings...Miles Ok ya'll want a verse God tells us straight up homosexuality is wrong? Leviticus 18:22 22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. I never said Homosexuality was not wrong.. Just that where Effeminate was is not speaking of it.. But instead of the Privelidged and and those who are self indulgent.. a Me Me Me personality. Yahshua said if he would of come when Sodom and Gommorah was here they would of repented.. But the high and Powerful pharasees would not. Just like the ministers of sin today point the finger yet break the covenent willingly.. Are they somehow better? Yahshua says no they are worse. whats an Abomination? Isa 66:17 7 "Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves, To go to the gardens After an idol in the midst, Eating swine's flesh and the abomination and the mouse, Shall be consumed together," says Yahweh. . NKJV sheqets OT:8263 sheqets (sheh'-kets); from OT:8262; filth, i.e. (figuratively and specifically) an idolatrous object sheqets OT:8262 shaqats (shaw-kats'); a primitive root; to be filthy, i.e. (intensively) to loathe, pollute: KJV - abhor, make abominable, have in abomination, detest, utterly. filth to Pollute. The Holy Spirit can not live where thier is filth or in one who is polluted. 8263 says its..an idolatrous object also.. or they are a combination to be Abominable. yet in Isa 66:17 is future tense when Yahshua returns and he speaks of eating Swines flesh. The Ministers of sin say its been cleansed. How? Yet where Abomionable and Idol worship is we have eating SWINES FLESH with it. Before we can tell the world this is a sin we need to know what sin is. Rom 7:7-12 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law . For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet." 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law , but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. NKJV Here it says The Commandment and Law are Holy. Its what killed us made us understand its justice is good and saved us or woke us up to the Beauty of it and it became Holy in us. Heb 8:10-11 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts ; and I will be their Elohim, and they shall be My people. NKJV Isa 66:17 will happen and those who do not have Heb 8:10-11 written in them are the same ministers who convict themselves on the Platform they Judged and preached to others Do not sin willingly when they themselves sin openly and proudly making the Commandments of Yahweh of No Effect.. Shalom...Miles Sin is the result of disobeying our father. Sin is a plague that infects us until forgiveness is sought after. Sin is going against the commandments we have been given, not just the 10 commandments but all the commandments given to us in the new testament. That is the covenant between man and God. And sorry about the verse you replied to here being from the old testament, wasn't thinking. But if you'll look above your response I have shown a better more direct commandment God has given us about homosexuality. Oh ok, I see what you're saying. Sorry for the misunderstanding. |
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Cowboy wrote: This finalizes that homosexuality to be immoral, sinful, and not accepted by God. Notice "no sodomites". A sodomite is one that practices sodomy and sodomy is anal sex. And that is exactly what homosexuality is. Thank you for your time my friends, may God be with you. What you are doing here is jumping to huge conclusions based on your own personal imagination of what homosexual people might be doing when they engage in physical intimacy. You have absolutely no clue how same-gender partners might express their their "sexual intimacy" for each other. You're jumping to huge conclusions based on total ignorance and obvious bigotries that you have been taught to believe. You say that you don't judge people, but not only do you judge them, but you ASSUME things about them that you cannot possibly know. ~~~~ So what are you saying here? Are you saying that if a same-gender couple told you that they wanted to get married, kiss and hug each other, and show their affection for each other in the normal ways that heterosexual people do when in public without being ridiculed for it, and they that they have absolutely no interest in anal sex, you could then have no objections to this because it would no longer be a violation of your the laws of your egotistical god? Evidently so. Because that's clearly the root of your objection. ~~~~ You've just opened the door and rolled out the red carpet for same-gender couples and same-gender marriage. All the Gay and Lesbian communities need to do is to change their "label" from "Homosexual" to "Same-gender lovers". Because, kissing, hugging, fondling, and even mutual masturbation are basically NOT sex if you demand that sex is only defined as either penis/vaginal penetration, or penis/anal penetration. In fact, in the case of lesbians, that's not even possible since women don't have penis to insert into each other. So Lesbians are already exempt from your accusations of sodomy. Even if they used a plastic penis or BOB, they could still insert that into the vagina and it wouldn't be sodomy. Maybe same-gender males are physically intimate in ways that don't require penetration of any kind. Who are you to say how they might be physical intimate with each other to express their feelings of love for one another? ~~~~~ The only thing that gays and lesbians need to do to is reject your label of "homosexuality" and simply demand that they be referred to as "Same-Gender Lovers". Then all or your bigotry fails. Your guesses and imagination of how they might be expressing their love for each other falls away and holds no merit. So you have absolutely nothing to object to if all they do is change their label to "Same-Gender Lovers" Perhaps "homosexuality" is a misleading label to start with because different people define "sex" in different ways. Not everyone require "penetration", and as I've said, in the case of Lesbians your charges fail anyway because they don't even have a penis to penetrate anything. They can't perform sodomy even if they wanted to. So by your accusations lesbians are free to marry. Only gay males are in question now. |
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Cowboy wrote: This finalizes that homosexuality to be immoral, sinful, and not accepted by God. Notice "no sodomites". A sodomite is one that practices sodomy and sodomy is anal sex. And that is exactly what homosexuality is. Thank you for your time my friends, may God be with you. What you are doing here is jumping to huge conclusions based on your own personal imagination of what homosexual people might be doing when they engage in physical intimacy. You have absolutely no clue how same-gender partners might express their their "sexual intimacy" for each other. You're jumping to huge conclusions based on total ignorance and obvious bigotries that you have been taught to believe. You say that you don't judge people, but not only do you judge them, but you ASSUME things about them that you cannot possibly know. ~~~~ So what are you saying here? Are you saying that if a same-gender couple told you that they wanted to get married, kiss and hug each other, and show their affection for each other in the normal ways that heterosexual people do when in public without being ridiculed for it, and they that they have absolutely no interest in anal sex, you could then have no objections to this because it would no longer be a violation of your the laws of your egotistical god? Evidently so. Because that's clearly the root of your objection. ~~~~ You've just opened the door and rolled out the red carpet for same-gender couples and same-gender marriage. All the Gay and Lesbian communities need to do is to change their "label" from "Homosexual" to "Same-gender lovers". Because, kissing, hugging, fondling, and even mutual masturbation are basically NOT sex if you demand that sex is only defined as either penis/vaginal penetration, or penis/anal penetration. In fact, in the case of lesbians, that's not even possible since women don't have penis to insert into each other. So Lesbians are already exempt from your accusations of sodomy. Even if they used a plastic penis or BOB, they could still insert that into the vagina and it wouldn't be sodomy. Maybe same-gender males are physically intimate in ways that don't require penetration of any kind. Who are you to say how they might be physical intimate with each other to express their feelings of love for one another? ~~~~~ The only thing that gays and lesbians need to do to is reject your label of "homosexuality" and simply demand that they be referred to as "Same-Gender Lovers". Then all or your bigotry fails. Your guesses and imagination of how they might be expressing their love for each other falls away and holds no merit. So you have absolutely nothing to object to if all they do is change their label to "Same-Gender Lovers" Perhaps "homosexuality" is a misleading label to start with because different people define "sex" in different ways. Not everyone require "penetration", and as I've said, in the case of Lesbians your charges fail anyway because they don't even have a penis to penetrate anything. They can't perform sodomy even if they wanted to. So by your accusations lesbians are free to marry. Only gay males are in question now. Homosexual sex and marriage has nothing to do with one another. The bible tells us straight forward marriage is for a man and a woman. Doesn't say it's for a man and a man, a woman and a woman, or anything of such. Says it is for a man and a woman. And you're gonna tell me there are homosexuals that don't involve themselves in homosexual sex activities. If they do not involve themselves with sex of the same gender then they are not "homosexual". Homosexual is sex with people of the same gender. Just because one may be attracted to another of the same gender does not make them homosexual. They become homosexual when a sexual action is taken between the two. And as I've shown anal sex is a sin. Thus male sex amongst one another would be sinful, less you wish to enlighten us on how two males can have sex without it being done anally. |
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Cowboy wrote: This finalizes that homosexuality to be immoral, sinful, and not accepted by God. Notice "no sodomites". A sodomite is one that practices sodomy and sodomy is anal sex. And that is exactly what homosexuality is. Thank you for your time my friends, may God be with you. What you are doing here is jumping to huge conclusions based on your own personal imagination of what homosexual people might be doing when they engage in physical intimacy. You have absolutely no clue how same-gender partners might express their their "sexual intimacy" for each other. You're jumping to huge conclusions based on total ignorance and obvious bigotries that you have been taught to believe. You say that you don't judge people, but not only do you judge them, but you ASSUME things about them that you cannot possibly know. ~~~~ So what are you saying here? Are you saying that if a same-gender couple told you that they wanted to get married, kiss and hug each other, and show their affection for each other in the normal ways that heterosexual people do when in public without being ridiculed for it, and they that they have absolutely no interest in anal sex, you could then have no objections to this because it would no longer be a violation of your the laws of your egotistical god? Evidently so. Because that's clearly the root of your objection. ~~~~ You've just opened the door and rolled out the red carpet for same-gender couples and same-gender marriage. All the Gay and Lesbian communities need to do is to change their "label" from "Homosexual" to "Same-gender lovers". Because, kissing, hugging, fondling, and even mutual masturbation are basically NOT sex if you demand that sex is only defined as either penis/vaginal penetration, or penis/anal penetration. In fact, in the case of lesbians, that's not even possible since women don't have penis to insert into each other. So Lesbians are already exempt from your accusations of sodomy. Even if they used a plastic penis or BOB, they could still insert that into the vagina and it wouldn't be sodomy. Maybe same-gender males are physically intimate in ways that don't require penetration of any kind. Who are you to say how they might be physical intimate with each other to express their feelings of love for one another? ~~~~~ The only thing that gays and lesbians need to do to is reject your label of "homosexuality" and simply demand that they be referred to as "Same-Gender Lovers". Then all or your bigotry fails. Your guesses and imagination of how they might be expressing their love for each other falls away and holds no merit. So you have absolutely nothing to object to if all they do is change their label to "Same-Gender Lovers" Perhaps "homosexuality" is a misleading label to start with because different people define "sex" in different ways. Not everyone require "penetration", and as I've said, in the case of Lesbians your charges fail anyway because they don't even have a penis to penetrate anything. They can't perform sodomy even if they wanted to. So by your accusations lesbians are free to marry. Only gay males are in question now. Homosexual sex and marriage has nothing to do with one another. The bible tells us straight forward marriage is for a man and a woman. Doesn't say it's for a man and a man, a woman and a woman, or anything of such. Says it is for a man and a woman. And you're gonna tell me there are homosexuals that don't involve themselves in homosexual sex activities. If they do not involve themselves with sex of the same gender then they are not "homosexual". Homosexual is sex with people of the same gender. Just because one may be attracted to another of the same gender does not make them homosexual. They become homosexual when a sexual action is taken between the two. And as I've shown anal sex is a sin. Thus male sex amongst one another would be sinful, less you wish to enlighten us on how two males can have sex without it being done anally. There's always oral sex. If that counts. |
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