If what the ministries that you quoted here say is true, then the God they support would be a God who punishes sincere decent people for merely being "confused" about how to find their way to God.

IMHO, that is utterly absurd.

Why would any God set out to confuse people who are sincerely interested in seeking God. That would be a very cruel and mean thing for a God to do to his sincere loving childern.

Also, they claim the following: "Mankind has replaced Him with gods that are more to their liking."

That's clearly false on at least two counts:

1. Most religious people who do not worship Christianity do so simply because they were taught or raised to believe that another religion is true. They did not "replace" a God that they did not like. In fact, the Christians are the ones who are guilty of that. They replaced the God of the Old Testament with Jesus.

2. Secondly, if other religions actually have "better Gods" then we should definitely turn to those religions anyway. What would make anyone choose a religion that has a "lesser" God?

Why would God itself expect humans to believe in a picture of a lesser God when there are "better" pictures of God out there?

To even suggest as much is to imply that Christian God is obviously NOT GOOD, and here we even have the Christian ministries themselves confessing this very thing.

Sometimes they shoot themselves in their own foot with their over-zealous proselytizing that only their religion is the only true religion. It's that very sentiment that makes Christianity so obnoxious to begin with.

Here you are posting copies of Christian Ministries that BASH, every other religion on Planet Earth, and then when people point out the absurdities and hypocrisies of Christianity you scream "FOUL!" and claim that they are "bashing" Christianity. Well, is it any WONDER?

Why is it that Christians feel they have the right to BASH all other religions with a sweeping blanket, and then still feel they have the right to scream "FOUL" when people of those other faiths point out the absurdities and lies of Christianity?

If you throw stones at all other religions, those people are going to throw stones back at you. What else can you expect?

Christianity and Christians represent one of the most arrogant religions on planet Earth. The only other religions that even come close to it are also based on the same Abrahamic Jealous God.

The God you proselytize is a hateful God if he is going to be mean to people who actually prefer to believe that God is actually NICE.

Just like your ministries say:

"Mankind has replaced Him with gods that are more to their liking."

So you're saying that God hates people who actually prefer to think that God might be nice?

If I go to hell because I thought God was NICE and it turns out that God is really a jerk, I won't mind going to hell anyway, because who in their right mind would want to worship and serve an evil God for the rest of eternity anyway?

A NICE God would NEVER be so CRUEL and HEARTLESS, IMHO.

I'm absolutely convinced that if a God exists at all, it's got to be better than the God of the Christians. The God you speak of is a demon who evidently hates SINCERE LOVING PEOPLE simply because they prefer to believe that God might actually be NICE.

Sorry Cerise,

Either God truly is NICE, or I want no parts of God. A God who isn't nice is a DEMON.

So evidently the Christians worship a demonic God based on the what the ministries you've just posted are saying.

Your God condemns those who believe that God is actually NICE.

Well, I guess I'm a condemned man in that case. What a horrible sin I've committed.

I thought God was NICE.

Evidently I'll go straight to hell for my horrible sin of thinking that God might have actually been NICE.

SHAME ON ME!

A good analogy for this is found in a book called "The case for faith"
God is like a man at a party. Let's say you go to this party and spot this man. He is the best dressed,the best looking,and quite frankly awesome. He is the life of the party and is constantly surrounded by people.
You have two choices, Choice 1. You approach this man and talk with him fellowship with him and at the end of the party go for drinks at his place.
Choice number 2. You do not talk to this man. You avoid him. You do not join him for drinks later because you do not know him nor does he know you.
Would you want to be forced against your will to go to his place? A man you don't even know? Of course not.

It's the same way with God. He's not going to force you to do things his way. If you serve another then that is your choice. God did not send you to Hell, you sent yourself there by the life YOU CHOOSE to live.
Besides that, why would you want to go to heaven and be with God if you don't even know the guy? Honestly, evreone in heaven would think the same way. They would all love and talk about God. You would be totally out of place there. You would not belong. You would be like a wedding crasher.

The man at the party argument is ENTIRELY different! In that case, you are free to talk to the guy or not, and your soul is not gonna depend on that choice. With God, or at least the Bible's God, you either do it or you die. That's hardly free will when you're being threatened with hell if you don't comply. It screams of a control tactic that.

Religion controls in 2 ways to me:

1. It gives people something to hold onto as far as an afterlife.

2. It keeps them from thinking differently by fear and threat of what will happen if you do.

Combine those 2 together, and you have a well designed controlled system of thinking, and a way to easily bend the people to your will.

As for the wedding crasher thing goes, I find that rather insulting. Of course I would want to be with God, and as His child do you really think He's gonna view anyone that way? If he's truly loving somehow I think not.

Well it's up to you if you go to heaven or hell depending on your actions.

That's not meant to be an insult! Why be forced to serve God in the afterlife if you did not serve him here and now?

Do you not see how religion reigns by fear like this though? Of course people are gonna be more inclined to believe if they're threatened!

You speak as though you know the mind of God, when you only know what you've been told of Him by man. How do you know He is demanding such worship? If He's so loving, would he be as demanding and spiteful as the Bible portrays Him? I don't quite think so.

And besides, upon seeing God do you not think you are gonna see things different then you do down here now?

I would compare your learning of the God of the Bible as taking an academic College course, receiving full credit upon entry level.
God Himself being your professor

If anyone wants to be with the God of the Bible...He invites them to come unto Him and learn of Him...I would say you'd have to have a very strong desire to know Him and what He has to say first of all.

He that cometh unto Him He will in no wise cast out.

It is important that you seek HIM with all your heart, earnestly. There is no other God who invites you to seek him with the promise to reward you. So, it's worth it to humble yourself...accept the invitation. He will keep His promise.

Isa_55:6, Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

I would compare your learning of the God of the Bible as taking an academic College course, receiving full credit upon entry level.
God Himself being your professor

If anyone wants to be with the God of the Bible...He invites them to come unto Him and learn of Him...I would say you'd have to have a very strong desire to know Him and what He has to say first of all.

He that cometh unto Him He will in no wise cast out.

It is important that you seek HIM with all your heart, earnestly. There is no other God who invites you to seek him with the promise to reward you. So, it's worth it to humble yourself...accept the invitation. He will keep His promise.

Isa_55:6, Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

Quite honestly I DON'T want to be with the God of the Bible, because it's not the true God. It's a misrepresentation of what God really is. What loving parent would hold a threat of eternal pain just to get their way? No truly loving parent would, and yet God does? It doesn't pass the smell test.

Truly.

And we're really not even talking about a "god" here. What we are talking about is a religion that claims that God will hate anyone who refuses to climb on board with the religion.

And I agree, that doesn't smell right at all, IMHO.

I don't believe that any genuine God would have anything at all to do with any such religion. A real God would make itself available through ALL RELIGIONS. This way, everyone who seeks God will find God no matter what religion they follow.

How much wiser could a God be?

If we expect that God is truly infinitely wise, then we should start taking that concept a little more seriously and recognize that everyone who seeks God will find God no matter what religion they seek God through.

And a truly infinitely wise God would even find a way to make it possible for atheists to find God, even if it's only through their appreciation and love of God's creation itself. That's really all that should be required.

Many secular scientists are far more intimately in love with God than many religious people are, IMHO.

You have chosen.

You made the choice...

How is the situation in the analogy relative to an individual questioning the God of the Bible?



What does it mean “to serve” another, how would one serve the God of the Bible?

In the Quote:



The conclusion drawn never indicates how an individual is supposed to ‘Know God’.

If people can know God through dreams – then no one’s dreams can be totally discounted.
If people can know God through visions – then all visions must be acknowledged.
If people can know God through human communication – then all ideas of God are well communicated.

However, if anyone would deny any or all such claims, to knowledge of God, then there must be a reason for doing so – What is that reason?

To repeat from my last post:


If people can know God through dreams – then no one’s dreams can be totally discounted.
If people can know God through visions – then all visions must be acknowledged.
If people can know God through human communication – then all ideas of God are well communicated.

However, if anyone would deny any or all such claims, to knowledge of God, then there must be a reason for doing so – What is that reason?

God doesn't threaten anyone. Does your child not know that if he disobeys you he will be grounded and or punished in some way? Are you threatening your child? Or are you merely telling them of the outcome of such actions? Hell isn't a threat, only information on what happens with our disobedience.

Absolutely.

Also, it makes absolutely no sense to quote certain versus out of a cannon of fables and even remotely suggest that the author who wrote those verses even had a CLUE that such a cannon of fables was every going to be constructed.

In other words, if a person wrote that all we need to do is seek God and we will find God, then that has absolutely nothing to do with any cannon of fables, even if that ideal was one of the thoughts within the cannon.

That ideal is pretty typical of all spiritual philosophies.

In other words, if a person seeks God through Buddhism, they'll find God because they were indeed seeking God.

If they seek God through a Celtic legend or Wicca, then again they'll clearly find God.

If they seek God through a native American Indian spiritual tradition, then they'll find God.

If they seek God through Greek mythology they will find God. And that doesn't need to mean that needs to become Zeus.

If they seek God through the biblical mythology they will find God, but again, that doesn't mean that God needs to be the God of Abraham, nor Jesus.

It doesn't matter how you envision God. If you seek God you will find God.

In fact, scientists seek God through the observing and discovering of the language of nature. Maybe they even call God "nature". It's totally irrelevant. Many scientists feel that they have observed the "mind of God" in nature, and they aren't referring to Zeus, or any other egotistical godhead of mythology.

I have no doubt that *some* spiritual truths ended up in the biblical cannon. How could they not?

But that doesn't make everything that ended up in the cannon the 'verbatim word of God'.

That is where Christianity (and many other Abrahamic religions) lose it. They start to worship a particular cannon of myths as the "word of God" and lose sight of the real God altogether.

I don't think the creator of the universe would hold anything against anyone who likes to think that Jesus is the son of God. I imagine that's viewed as God as a pretty nice gesture.

But this idea that God hates everyone who refuses to worship the Bible as the verbatim word of God, is just utter nonsense. No genuinely intelligent being could ever expect everyone to buy into the Hebrew picture of God. And those who reject that picture as being unholy do so for perfectly legitimate reasons.

This whole idea that the Christian God hates everyone who refuses to bow down and worship Christianity is simply nonsense. Especially when the religion and it's followers are often holding the religion up to support religious bigotry, lifestyle bigotry, and even ignorance against scientific knowledge! That's just totally uncalled for.

I'll never believe in a God who actually prefers that we be ignorant. Of all the things that God created, our ability to reason and think intelligently is one of the greatest things I know of.

In fact, take that away from us and what would we be but a bunch of ignorant monkeys. Our ability to reason and actually understand things is the very thing that separates us from monkeys. So why would God want humans to act like monkeys? If he was satisfied with monkeys he could have just halted evolution at that stages. No need to even create intelligent sentient beings if he's dead set against intelligence and reason.

Nope, God must necessarily appreciate intelligence and reason. And it's both intelligent and reasonable to reject many things that are contained within the stories of the biblical cannon as being both unwise, and ungodly. That's totally reasonable, and it doesn't require any concept of 'evil' or a desire to 'reject God'. Those accusations are simply untenable. They aren't reasonable. Period.

To not believe that the Hebrew folklore represents the "word of God" cannot in any way be construed as "disobedience".

Disobedience is to not listen to that of which you're being disobedient to. And not believing in the law in the first place then places you in the position of not being obedient. Therefore yes to not believe is being disobedient.

Matthew 10:33

33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

But how do you know God made the law? You're trusting men to tell you the truth, when they may well have motives of their own for saying what they do.

Temporary punishments are one thing, eternal punishment with NO chance for forgiveness is downright cruel. And if God is more loving then we, He is not cruel.