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| Topic: I so hope this is disproven,,, | |
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http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/09/21/georgia.pastor.abuse/?hpt=C2
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What is there to disprove? Religious beliefs are for the venerable and people who enjoy being in bondage.
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What is there to disprove? Religious beliefs are for the venerable and people who enjoy being in bondage. huh? |
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Will someone enlighten me as to why a pastor would take a young man out of the country for his 18th birthday? My view of religion is that its pastors/leaders are just people. Their guilt or innocence is irrelevent to me. Its the message of the institution not the messenger that I concern myself with. This is ultimately why I do not feel affiliation with any organised religion actually. I agree, but people will view a 'group' by what the worst of them do. It happens all the time. |
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Will someone enlighten me as to why a pastor would take a young man out of the country for his 18th birthday? My view of religion is that its pastors/leaders are just people. Their guilt or innocence is irrelevent to me. Its the message of the institution not the messenger that I concern myself with. This is ultimately why I do not feel affiliation with any organised religion actually. I agree, but people will view a 'group' by what the worst of them do. It happens all the time. what happens all the time is history keeps repeating it self. |
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I'm sorry, whether they're considered children or not, at 17 or 18 they should still know how to think. They were greedy for the "stuff" that they got from this guy and their parents cannot say they did not notice the games, electronics and cars, not to mention goig out of state and country those kids came home with. Certainly doesn't make it right, but they're all equally as culpable by this point in life. Obviously, they felt they were getting compensated well for what they allegedly had to do.
Greed rules all. |
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I'm sorry, whether they're considered children or not, at 17 or 18 they should still know how to think. They were greedy for the "stuff" that they got from this guy and their parents cannot say they did not notice the games, electronics and cars, not to mention goig out of state and country those kids came home with. Certainly doesn't make it right, but they're all equally as culpable by this point in life. Obviously, they felt they were getting compensated well for what they allegedly had to do. Greed rules all. I was referring to the inappropriateness of the pastors choices as a leader in his church, not at all about the choices of his alleged victims or their parents. Understood. Thats why I said that "Certainly doesn't make it right". However, I still maintain that the parents and the 17/18 year olds were equally at fault, and that it sounds like they were quite happy being "paid" for their services. |
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I believe in God...I believe in the bible...but I do not believe in following a religion. I listen to pastors for the deeper understanding I can get from them concerning the bible. They are usually held to higher standards but we must understand that they are also human - prone to temptation just as much as the rest of us and they will make mistakes.
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I'm sorry, whether they're considered children or not, at 17 or 18 they should still know how to think. They were greedy for the "stuff" that they got from this guy and their parents cannot say they did not notice the games, electronics and cars, not to mention goig out of state and country those kids came home with. Certainly doesn't make it right, but they're all equally as culpable by this point in life. Obviously, they felt they were getting compensated well for what they allegedly had to do. Greed rules all. I was referring to the inappropriateness of the pastors choices as a leader in his church, not at all about the choices of his alleged victims or their parents. Understood. Thats why I said that "Certainly doesn't make it right". However, I still maintain that the parents and the 17/18 year olds were equally at fault, and that it sounds like they were quite happy being "paid" for their services. sounds as if there is someone else can see the validity of 'responsibility' , instead of just 'blame' IF the allegations are true( its disturbing to me the trend in our culture to perceive allegations immediately as truth), there is responsibility to go around nice observation |
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I'm sorry, whether they're considered children or not, at 17 or 18 they should still know how to think. They were greedy for the "stuff" that they got from this guy and their parents cannot say they did not notice the games, electronics and cars, not to mention goig out of state and country those kids came home with. Certainly doesn't make it right, but they're all equally as culpable by this point in life. Obviously, they felt they were getting compensated well for what they allegedly had to do. Greed rules all. I was referring to the inappropriateness of the pastors choices as a leader in his church, not at all about the choices of his alleged victims or their parents. Understood. Thats why I said that "Certainly doesn't make it right". However, I still maintain that the parents and the 17/18 year olds were equally at fault, and that it sounds like they were quite happy being "paid" for their services. sounds as if there is someone else can see the validity of 'responsibility' , instead of just 'blame' IF the allegations are true( its disturbing to me the trend in our culture to perceive allegations immediately as truth), there is responsibility to go around nice observation I wasnt blaming anyone. The pastor is held to a standard as the head of the church, according to your article. Regardless of the choices of the young men (ie willingness or otherwise) it was the Pastor who's conduct broke the covenant. Nothing to do with blaming or not blaming. The Pastors behavior has nothing to do with the boys were willing or had the support of their parents either. apologies for the confusion, but my post was not directed at anyone in particular we are all held to standards, and though the pastor had the expectation to be 'better' and to know 'better' those boys also had a responsibility to to say no and to not accept gifts and presents in return, and so did their parents Ive been told since I was five that just because someone asked you to or because someone else did it,, is not an excuse |
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those boys also had a responsibility to to say no and to not accept gifts and presents in return, and so did their parents Ive been told since I was five that just because someone asked you to or because someone else did it,, is not an excuse My point was that, though another choice would surely have been moral, those boys did NOT have a responsibility to say no, they were free to do as they wish. The paster was not. I disagree, the question here is a legal one, not a moral one. Morally, what was 'wrong' for the pastor(as a human being) was just as 'wrong' for anyone else. He and the boys were equal in moral standard. The boys could have chosen to say no just as the pastor could have chose not to offer. Its like a pimp and prostitute situation, neither is morally above the other. |
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those boys also had a responsibility to to say no and to not accept gifts and presents in return, and so did their parents Ive been told since I was five that just because someone asked you to or because someone else did it,, is not an excuse My point was that, though another choice would surely have been moral, those boys did NOT have a responsibility to say no, they were free to do as they wish. The paster was not. I disagree, the question here is a legal one, not a moral one. Morally, what was 'wrong' for the pastor(as a human being) was just as 'wrong' for anyone else. He and the boys were equal in moral standard. The boys could have chosen to say no just as the pastor could have chose not to offer. Its like a pimp and prostitute situation, neither is morally above the other. this is from your article: "Everybody knows that a bishop or church pastor ... cannot have any sort of sexual relations or sexual relationship with one of your parishioners," the lawyer, B.J. Bernstein, said at a news conference Tuesday evening. and is that a moral code, a church code, or a legal code? morally, both actions were 'wrong' |
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And the boys are greedy, Equusdancer is right. And now they will use their greed to extort their pastor.
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those boys also had a responsibility to to say no and to not accept gifts and presents in return, and so did their parents Ive been told since I was five that just because someone asked you to or because someone else did it,, is not an excuse My point was that, though another choice would surely have been moral, those boys did NOT have a responsibility to say no, they were free to do as they wish. The paster was not. I disagree, the question here is a legal one, not a moral one. Morally, what was 'wrong' for the pastor(as a human being) was just as 'wrong' for anyone else. He and the boys were equal in moral standard. The boys could have chosen to say no just as the pastor could have chose not to offer. Its like a pimp and prostitute situation, neither is morally above the other. this is from your article: "Everybody knows that a bishop or church pastor ... cannot have any sort of sexual relations or sexual relationship with one of your parishioners," the lawyer, B.J. Bernstein, said at a news conference Tuesday evening. and is that a moral code, a church code, or a legal code? morally, both actions were 'wrong' He and the boys were NOT equal. The pastor is in a position of power above his parishoners. If he had been with young men who were not parishoners, the point is moot. The pastor was in a position of greater responsibility. This is why the quote resonates and is salient. in the eyes of some church members, possibly I see pastors as no less or more human than I am,,and teachers no more or less human than their students I was never taught in the bible of a higher standard of morals for anyone, I was taught we are all equally morally responsible PASTORS should definitely lead by example, but it doesnt make their wrongs 'more wrong' because they are a pastor |
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so are you still hoping?
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so are you still hoping? of course, I always hope such allegations are disproven just the allegation alone can ruin someones life |
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Honestly, these things are usually true, I still dont think Michael jackson is innocent, even though I think he is the greatest artist EVER. And so forth with the nuns and catholic priests and foster care parents and blah blah blah, regardless of religion, People are MENTAL and often hide behind their RELIGION or POWER and sometimes both to paint an illusion. They are no different than Escher.
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Honestly, these things are usually true, I still dont think Michael jackson is innocent, even though I think he is the greatest artist EVER. And so forth with the nuns and catholic priests and foster care parents and blah blah blah, regardless of religion, People are MENTAL and often hide behind their RELIGION or POWER and sometimes both to paint an illusion. They are no different than Escher. often, but not always and in this day and age there are more FALSE charges as well because of the paranoia surrounding the whole topic,,, I am hoping this is a false allegation |
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Honestly, these things are usually true, I still dont think Michael jackson is innocent, even though I think he is the greatest artist EVER. And so forth with the nuns and catholic priests and foster care parents and blah blah blah, regardless of religion, People are MENTAL and often hide behind their RELIGION or POWER and sometimes both to paint an illusion. They are no different than Escher. often, but not always and in this day and age there are more FALSE charges as well because of the paranoia surrounding the whole topic,,, I am hoping this is a false allegation well, it's not looking good for ya... i hope they hang him by his balls... |
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thank you
I am truly only noting a difference between MANS moral expectations and the moral expectations of God(who didnt have different standards of right and wrong based upon occupation) I agree, that man will consider some professions as more 'morally' culpable I am just more aligned with what I believe to be the biblical doctrines, where right and wrong dont depend upon occupational title |
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