that would actually make you become religious (if you don't follow a religion) or drop your religion (if you have one) in favor of another or none?

Just wondering if anyone actually thinks they could be changed in that sense, or if it's really just about the fun of the debate.

I know i couldn't be changed and it's not about the debate there is no fun in that. Fun is in the uplifting God and trying to open people's eyes to the truth.

if I became an Exorcist ...

Nope..been there, done that. Never again!!

I suppose the authors could tell me they made it up,, if they were still living...


or Jesus himself could come back and discredit the Bible,,,,



otherwise,, there is nothing I can think of that another mortal,flawed, human could say to me to make my faith any less or my love of God and respect for his laws wane,,,

Just wondering. I thought that "no" would be the consensus.

Much love.

Actually I've changed courses quite frequently over the course of my life. I always keep an open mind, and I still do.

I was originally raised and brainwashed in Sunday Schools to believe in Christianity. I believed in it so much that I actually began to study the Bible myself in order to become a preacher. After all, who wouldn't want to teach ther "Word of God" if that's what the Bible really was?

There were quite a few things that people have said that have changed my mind about that religion. Mostly it was what was actually printed in the Bible that convinced me that the stories can't possibly be true. However, I should also add that several of my uncles were preachers, and so I often saw preachers debating amoung themsleves on various topics. It quickly became clear to me that even preachers don't agree on what the Bible has to say. And these were preachers from the very same protestant demonination.

Of course, watching how Protestant sect disagree (often quite drastially) concerning Biblical teachings (I mean, just look at the Amish for example who believe drastiacally different from mainstream Christainity). Then of course, the Protestants had protested against Catholicism, and Catholicism had protested against Judaism. The Muslims broke off even before that. Etc., etc.

So yes, I was convinced by a lot of people to change my mind about my religious views about the Bible.

Once I realize that the Bible held no more merit than ancient Greek Mythology I began to study other religions. Alan Watts, was a person who wrote a lot of books that convinced me that Eastern Mysticism holds far more merit than the Middle Eastern Religions.

So once again, I was pursuaded by something someone worte to look more deeply into a belief system. I confess though, that studying the Eastern Mystical religoins lead to a path not unlike the path that the Abrahamic Religions had taken. There was also much diversity there, from Hinduism, to a Myriad of different forms of Buddhism which eventually led to Zen Buddhism (a modern form of Buddhism that is FAR REMOVED from the original Buddhism from India.

Ironically, during my studies of Buddhism I found a version of Buddhism that matches the moral values and abstract concepts that Jesus had supposedly taught. It is called Mahayana Buddhism and was at it's PEAK precisely at the time when Jesus would have lived.

In any case, I found it quite difficult to actually "believe in" Buddhism for particular specific reasons.

Then I found a really great teacher in Deepak Chopra. He expounds on the foundational ideas of Eastern Mysticism without really getting bogged down in the gory details of any one particular dogmaic version of it. He presents the pure abstract concept in its natural nakeness. I can honestly say that his teachings have been a great insight for me. He is my 'Buddha'.

Although, having said that, I didn't stop there. I went on to explore even other religious ideologies. Including the American Indian views of Wanka Tanka. Again, that's close to an Eastern Mystical view actually.

A person on these forums named Ruth also opened my eyes to the value of traditions of Witchcraft, which I had never seriously considered previously. I was always taught that Witchcraft was just silly fairytales. But after reading books by Christopher Penzak (and several other authors) I see where these religions have serious spiritual depth. In fact, I personally found many of their teachings to be of far more practical value than anything I ever learned from Christianity.

From there, I learned about the Faery Teachings. These are some of the most beautiful spiritual stories of them all.

All in all, I've learned that if there is such a thing as a "magic god" he/she/it must indeed be far more benevolent than any of the authors of any of these religions can even begin to imagine.

I have since created my own religion I call "The Labyrinth Way". I feel that it's the most beautiful of all religions. But then I confess that I created it to be that way. After all, if I'm going to create a religion that is based on a benevolent "God" then the religion istelf must be as benevolent as I can possibly imagine, even then it would fall SHORT of describing the true nature of God. But at least it is my best attempt. I gave it may all.

Finally, in all seriousness, no one has ever told me anything that has even remotely convinced me that atheism is even a possiblity. I've been a scientist all my life. These atheists who act like science supports atheism must truly be lacking in their understanding of science because I've studied science all my life and as far as I'm concerned it has done nothing but imply the opposite.

I see absolutely no reason to "believe" in atheism. It simple makes no sense to me at all. I can't imagine anyone saying anything that could convince me of atheism. Although, I would certainly be interested in any such arguments. But in truth, I think I've heard most of them, and they are just as lame as the arguments that Christians give for their mythology.

So my current religion is "The Laybrinth Way". I made it up. Only because I couldn't find any other religion that was "worthy" of God.

I would be open to considering a better religion. But as if yet, I haven't heard of one.

being in a foxhole?

..only if it were God himself and he could prove it...

I'm an atheist, and was deployed. Being "in a foxhole" didn't make me change my mind.

I dropped both of mine. I was raised Catholic on one side of my family and Baptist on the other. Baptized twice and saved once. Sunday school and communion. I did not like it much though mainly because I had questions that noone could answer to my satisfaction.

I searched for a new religion believing that we are supposed to have one. I came across some interesting religions and I believe the one that struck me most was Wiccan and the reason is that you do not have to convert to be a Wiccan. They accept all religions or non.

But even Wiccan did not satisfy me.

Then I became sick with MS and in the misery of the disease, I started to pray to die. It was during this time that I realized religion actually shackles a person and stifles their spirit. I stopped praying to die and started really reaching into myself for the answers to these question noone could answer and I found them. I found the peace and honesty that each of us has to find to be one with ourselves. Religion actually separates us from this side of ourselves, trying to govern it with man made rules and stipulations.

Morality doesn't come from religion.
Kindness doesn't come from religion.
Humbleness doesn't come from religion.
Fairness definitely doesn't come from religion.
Charity doesn't come from religions.
Etc...
All that we attribute to religion is actually that part of us, the spirit or inner self that gives us all these many beautiful human attributes.

Morality doesn't come from religion.
Kindness doesn't come from religion.
Humbleness doesn't come from religion.
Fairness definitely doesn't come from religion.
Charity doesn't come from religions.
Etc...
All that we attribute to religion is actually that part of us, the spirit or inner self that gives us all these many beautiful human attributes.


Hear Hear!!!
A couple of the worst, most spiritually lacking people I've known were 'devout' Christians.

Religions "acquired" those the same way they got everything else attributed to them. They stole it.

being on death row?

I agree, and it's quite unfortunate that religions do tend to spiritually cripple people. Of course, it's mainly the Abrahamic religions that are spiritually crippling. They give "religion" in general a bad rap.

There are genuinely spiritual religions. But most of those are far too abstract for the masses to comprehend. The vast majority of people seem to need a daddy and so they are attracted to religions that claim to have a daddy type God. Even if that God is demented. That's how desperate they are for a daddy. Of course some people are attracted to a jealous bigoted godhead just so they can be jealous and bigoted in God's name.

in the concept of BALANCE, which I was raised with at home and taught about in church,,,,how can religion be so clearly not responsible for the good things in people but yet blamed so often for the bad,,,,it either causes people to have traits or it doesnt,,,

I agree to a point with you there. I know some who keep that balance that you referring to very well...and their religion (and we all know which I refer to as per my location) brings out the best in them. Then there are always the extremists, as in all religions also. So it's not so much the people that most are referring to here...I think. More the entire concept of organized religion. The teaching of Jesus, Buddha...etc. were taken and institutionalized...organized. I steer clear of ANY organized religion because there is a 'group mentality'. I personally know some here who want to ask questions, want to be stronger in their beliefs, understand better....they want spirituality, they want to feel spirit. But it's social suicide to move out of the 'group'.
The religion is a hindrance to actually experiencing 'God'. The rules are more important than actually experiencing spirit...

if I found 666 on my scalp ...so far I only found 66 ...that's why I never cut my hair ... because then I might find the other 6

I feel that from a very pragmatic point of view, religion would naturally be used to support bad things far more often than it would be used to support good things, and I believe that we've seen this throughout history. Especially in terms of magnitude of the events.

In other words, people who lust to do bad things seek ways to excuse their behavior. One of the very best ways to excuse bad behavior is to convince yourself that you're doing it in the name of God.

Look at how religion was used to support entire armies during the crusades. Look at how religion was used to support the prosecution torture and burning to death of innocent people as 'witches'.

Where have we ever seen such well-organized efforts where religion was used as an 'excuse' to do good on such grand scales as it was used to do bad?

We haven't. One reason is probably because people who want to do good things don't feel a need to excuse them by demanding that they are doing the will of God.

Even today, where do we see religion being used to rally the masses to do good things? We don't. Instead we see religion being used to rally the masses to be prejudiced against same-gender love, or science education in schools, or against the science of doing stem cell research in the name of medicine.

I really don't see religion being used (on a large scale) to encourge people to live together peacefully and accept each other's differnces and beliefs.

After all, face it, Christianity is entirely predjudiced against any belief that doesn't INCLUDE the Belief that Jesus is the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, and the Savior of all mankind. Moreover, this includes the demand that the entire Bible is indeed the WORD OF GOD, both New and OLD testaments, which takes us right back to being predjudiced against same-gender love, scientific findings that contradic scriptures, and doing any medical research that even remotely has anything to do with human DNA.

So, in short, I really don't see where the religion can even truly be used to rally people behind a GOOD cause without also dragging with it all of these negative predjudices.

Maybe some individuals may use their own 'personal walk with God' in ways that might be good. But that's a far cry from being able to use the religion as an institution to rally the masses to do good works without also dragging in all the negative predjudices and judgements.

So, no, not only do I not see a BALANCE with this religion, but I see now possible way where it could ever be used in a well-balanced way on a large scale. It's just not designed for that. It's founded on three main principles.

1. There is only one God - the God of Abraham!
2. Only one BOOK contains HIS WORD - The Holy Bible!
3. Jesus is LORD and SAVIOR of all mankind and MUST BE accepted as such!

As long as it continues to demand these three things, it's never going to amount to anything good, and it can never become an institution of good on a large scale.

Even if everyone on planet Earth were to convert to Chistianity today, that would only be the beginning of the real religious wars, because Christianity itself is a protesting religion. Christians protest against each other's interpretations.

And we've already seen what would happen if Catholicism tried to convert the Protestants to Catholicism. That would become the battle to end all battles for sure!

As a large-scale institution Christianity is a highly confrontational and divisive religion. Let's face it.