I read this story on the news today and I was appalled.

Is that really the way you treat the men you sent to war?????


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19267926/


Is this the way the US find the money to finance the war?

Yep, that's the way they do it! At this point, I'm ashamed to call
myself an American.

I read that article right now.. yes its a shame... I will never be
embarrassed to call myself an american..went thru all this crap in the
60s... but what we neeed to do, all of us, that care, is write your
congreeman, senators, all state politician, and shout it out to them..
we need more funding for the trooops as far as mental health!!!!!!

I'm not American, so I can't be embarrassed that way, but I'm
embarrassed for the human race as such.

well it looks like a nuke hit this place !!

bump.




maybe the enormity of what we are all actually IN and have to DEAL with
is finally taking it's much needed role as a priority....

but i doubt it.

this soldier is one that made some headlines, and represents the
thousands, yep THOUSANDS that are coming home even worse...

professionally speaking, i am often at a loss when faced with
facilitating a coping mechanism for these soldiers...i have some tricks
of the trade, but the damage is often so traumatic, whatever i offer
them is something more like a management program ... sometimes the
person is unable to maintain a dicipline with this and a rollercoaster
ride ensues....

they are far from the person who left the home and friends and family
far from anyone they recognize including themselves

the price of this war

everyones a goddamned victim.

life is a series of traumatic events leaving us all with some form of
this candy coated mental illness called PTSD.

Listen folks- war sucks, death and destruction that comes from it sucks,
trust me I know first hand of holding a dying friend.

does this mean that the world for soldiers is coming apart because the
people of the world doesnt give a hoot about us? only if the soldier is
a weak mental case to begin with---oh oh oh wait a minute, this is the
new instant gratification sony playstation generation of a lot of over
sissyfied people. but to put in to context,,,with a military that has
about one million people in it, the fact that there are some real
problems is real, is it every one of us, NO. thousands- maybe a stretch
too.

but whatever speculate all you want.

never embarrassed to be an AMERICAN Best freaking group of people on the
planet.

heres another headline for you;

American Soldier tired of all the Politically Correct Paperdoll
compassion. thanks/ no thanks.

doc

ps. hi alex

Uummhhhhhhhhh

Are you telling me that all these people coming back from war and having
problems have been nutcases before.

You might think again armydoc.

our country has a long history of ignoring our returning veterans needs.
this is nothing new. the soldiers ive talked with say its getting better
however. it doesent help a bit when they arrive to read the news about
how bad things are going over there, when they have fought, bled and
sometimes died in the heat, sand, and dust fighting for us. at a
personal level we can all shake hands thank any vet we encounter in
life. they are all heroes and deserve our prayers, support and help.
this is our little part we can do for them for the great sacrifice they
have made for us. Anytime i see someone wearing a veteran hat or driving
a car with vetren plate, i always make a special effort to thank them.
ive been in the military, though not in combat, and have the greatest
respect for all our vets.

let me tell you my ex-wifes story and you tell me if this is nt how the
government treats its home-coming soldiers...

January 3, 2003: Four months and one day after the birth of our
second son, Amy was mobilized. She left on the 17th of January.

January 5-10: Brigade General issued an order stating soldiers with
a child underneath four years of age were exempt from deployment. This
was given only to the command officials; not one singel troop was
informed.

January 17: Amy left for Wisconsin to begin training for Iraq.

March 2003: Amy left for Kuwait; about a week after she arrived she
started seeing a spychiatrist for deep depression and anxiety, was
diagnosed with major depression and put on paxil.

April 2003: Amy was nt allowed to leave with her company due to new
medication, had to wait one week; Her company packed up ans went into
Iraq proper, leaving Amy with no shelter, and no accomodations for her
to receive meals or anything. She had to go through her Pyschiatrist to
get a barracks room.

May/June 2003: Amy is felt up and pawed over by an Iraqi contractor.
She copmlains to her squad learder and is told to ignore it and drive
on.

June 2003: mp sergeant makes pass at amy, she turns him down and she
gets written up for fraternization. She starts cutting herself.

July: Amy is still cutting herself and still in Iraq, cause her
chain of command will not send her back

August: Amy is finally sent back to Kuwait then to germany, to
outprocess fromt he army reserves due to "borderline personlity
disorder"

August 8th 2003: Amy is raped by a fellow soldier while staying at
Walter Reed waiting to go back to Wisconsin to finish outprocessing.
CID accuses AMY of looking for a good time after deployment and refuses
to do anything. Amy signs herself back in to the high security ward
until I can arrive the morning of the ninth, when I am required to sign
her out stating I would be responsible for her safety and such. She is
told she will leave the twelveth to go to Wisconsin, and I leave on the
eleventh (had to leave boys with the neighbor whom I had just met three
months prior).

August 12th: Amy is told she is at walter reed indefinitely

August 25 or so: Amy finally arrives in Wisconsin

THANKSGIVING WEEKEND: Amy is finally released form Wisconsin to go
home. Her discharge paperwork states dischrged due to not meeting army
standards.


Since Thanksgiving weekend 2003, Amy has been in and out of at least
eight different mental health institutes for issues ranging from simpole
depression all the way through severe bipolar. Right now she has a
diagnosis os severe bipolar folowed by sever anziety and self mutilation
along with being considered passively suicidal, and is in the va
hospital again.

her treatments consist of group therapy, aa and na meetings even though
she does not have issues with either, and a five minutes session with a
psychiatrist opnce a week.

She filed for compensation and disability back in early 2004, and here
it is 2007 and she is still being told "we do not have enough
oinformation to even hold a review".

At this point the army/va owes her somwhere around 100 g's in back
compensation, because she should have had this put on her discharge
papers and instead they discharged her generally for not meeting Army
Standards, same as they would for someone who was to heavy, or who could
not pass the pt. test.

Now you tell me: Is the governemt really trying tohelp our troops or
are they just trying to brush them under the rug and forget about them?

"we need more funding for the trooops as far as mental health!!!!!! "

Trizar, the funding is there, but the governemt refuses to diagnose a
disability or anything even temporary cause then they have to keep
paying the soldier.

ii at least have a foundation for my views. ive been there, ive seen
what combat is. i know how many and what units are actually fighting,
which by the way is nowhere close to the 138000 that are there. its
abvout one for every seven (army stat not mine).
so out of that almost 20000 men who are in the fighting, how many of
those are claiming PTSD? how many of the other guys and gals?

funny how when i was there most of those cases came from people who were
so far removwed from any combat that they had to read about what was
going on.

you people think that since they are in iraq that thewy are all fighting
and that simply is the farthest thing from the truth.

so yeah, i think a lot of the claims are just for the sake of being a
victim, getting special treatment or attention. people give sympathy to
you when they think that youve been through "hell" or "war" when all
your doing is playing on the dollar someone else laid down on the table.
its actually pretty damn sad.

doc

daniel that is the most awful thing i have ever heard. that makes me
feel ashamed of our american so called leadership. my heart bleeds for
you and your babies because of this. god bless you.

Dont get me wronf Doc, I agree their are people jumping ont he
bandwagonover ptsd and other issues. however, there are enough genuine
cases that it is disgusting how our government treats tehm. I had a
friend in basic who lost his leg in iraq the first time we were there.
It took him a year and a lawsuit to get the army to pay him. va
literally told him they did nt have enough proof that he lost his leg in
iraq etc etc etc.
Now I grant in his case it was an extreme case of someone f*cking with
him, but still.

And also keep in mind that you do not have to have seen combat or have
been in danger to suffer from ptsd. That is why it is call post
TRAUMATIC stress... ANYTHING traumatic can cause it, and that is where
a big problem lies. What is traumatic to you or me, could be nothing
but a worm in the apple to someone else, and vice verse. And the excuse
the government uses to say "well you suffered this before you came in"
is bull**** as well cause you have to go through screening and everythig
to make sure you are mentally sound enough that you shuld be able to
handle the stress and tramau of being in the military. So if you werent
sound enough then the military screwed up by letting you in which leads
back to themilitary being responsible still. You know what I mean?

But like I said I DO agree that people are trying to jump on the
bandwagon in order to not work again or to have pity and sympathy or
whatever. But they are no where evennear the numbers of people actually
suffering.

Doc, did you actually read the story in the link or did you just jump in
for the sake of it?

well the united states has a history of

missed concern for those that have served in

any form of employment the military may be worse

but anytime you have a disabiltating problem the u s govt wants to send
ya of on the ice for polar bear food*

*yes a slight exaggeration

but i have known Korean and Vietnam veterains that have come back
with physical problems and mental problems and for them to get
help was harder than pulling teeth

i know a vietnam vet now tha if he misses a doc appt (when he can get
it) at the va it takes months to get a reschedule
regaurdless of the reason he missed it

am i ashamed to be a yankee --no-- but there are a lot of times
i am ashamed of the u s govt and the u s people for letting it continue

just a thought

maybe in the year 2525 if mankind can survive
if man is still alive

yep i read it, still dont believe that all those people have real ptsd.
now you are correct when you say different things effect different
people different ways. but honestly- lets be real here, getting ptsd
when you are in the safe zone simply because the PX ran out of xboxes to
sell is not a real case of ptsd.

getting blown up in a IED attack watching your friends head bounce from
your lap to someone elses , yeah ptsd.


well my kids back so im getting off this thing for now. talk to you
peoples later,


peace


doc

your right about the lack of comodities doc, but keep i nmind that the
people that were only suport ad never saw action also had issues going
on bacv home. Like with my ex having to leave her four month old baby.
Now, I for one am of the mind that there was nothing wrong with a mother
being made to deploy when the baby is four months odl. if she doesnt
want to do so, she should not have signed up. This goes for men with
fanilies as well.
And as extreme as watching a friends head bounce from lap to lap, I can
not sit back and state that it has to be something of that seriousness
in order to get help if you truly need it. aAnd that is the key phrase
isnt it: "if you truly need it".
No a pet cat dying while your gone is no reason to need help with ptsd.
however, say your wife lost the baby at child birth and you could not
get home to be with her or to bury the child. Peronally that would be
cause for problems dont you think? And yet it has nothing to do with
the war other than the fact that thats where you were at the time. And
then the mother herself would have problems, and understandably as well
and she isnt even in the army or combat or naything. See my point here?

PTSD can also be a buildup of a bunch of little things as well that
don't necessarily give you symptoms right away... I'm not exactly sure
how it's done in the military but isn't there any sort of stress
debriefing or anything like that?

They just started looking at debriefing sessions after war and what not
maybe ten years ago palhaco. It ws made mandatory for some cases but
not all cases I think.
And in my ex-wifes case you would think it would have been mandatory
(read above if yuo missed it) but not once did she get any kind of
debriefing or counseling until AFTER she got home for good and we got
her into the va. And then all it was was a support group for battered
women the first time, and since then just a patient therapy group where
every one supposedly talks for five minutes ad then listens to what the
group says about it.

Hmm... yeah they should implement it more, and not after you get back
from the war either. Not sure how it would work over there... but
around here in the EMS system they have CISD critical incident stress
debriefing for anyone involved in the incident, whatever it may be, and
your supposed to go within 48hrs. It helps people to not crack up and
develop PTSD.