------------------- EXACTLY!!!

what sick people?

It's just a standard fallacy of equivocation: the statement that "energy cannot be destroyed" only applies to the physical definition of "energy", not the colloquial use that refers to a person's enthusiasm or motivation.

misterwiggly

Hey, mister, as right as you are, do you really have to destroy my illusion with your materialistic BS?

After all, everything we're aware of is just the phisical stuff, but not the spiritual! (even though the latter is also a product of our phisical minds). Yet, no one has ever been to the other side...(although a Belgium scientist -- through the magnetic tamography -- has established the communication with people in coma!)

in the end, who cares......it seems like people "have to be right" and extinguish everything they can't explain, so they "feel" comfortable and right with the world, and their tiny surroundings, well, we are a tiny speck in huge space, and it can be wrecked at a moment's notice, so be comfortable with that. frankly i could care less about proof, and being filmed, because it's about advancing wisdom for me, not notoriety, or proving to the public, besides, if you don't get out of body, when you die, you'll find out that you're still here and standing over your body, or what's left of it when you die, and i'll be over in the corner, laughing my *** off, and making you laugh as well, for you're then, free, and i have endless patience on such matters, because, at that point....you ain't goin back ..... but for me, it's what i can get from this life....i have no reason to fib to anyone about what i've said here....there is no personal gain for me what so ever in trying to "make" anyone believe anything is or isn't...... but i love my experiences.

This is an excellent characterization of many non-evidence-based approaches to worldview development, especially the kinds which give rise to many of the 'spiritualist' worldview.



Apparently, its also not about gaining perspective on your own experience of our shared capacity for self deception.



First we fib to ourselves, then we think we are being honest when we pass those fibs on to others.

MisterW:



Sweet! Well said. There are many who fail to make this key distinction. Yes, enthusiasm and motivation are common uses for the word, as well as how pleasant or cheerful one's disposition is, how patient, calm, or understanding a person is, and more. And these are just those that are matters of thought and behavior. There are also uses of the word that are based on hypothetical models of the world which have nothing to do with any of the previous uses of the word; though some of the equivocation-inclined will think that 'the fact that we use the same word for these separate phenomena is evidence of a deeper link between them'.

If we want to think clearly about these matters, we must first learn not to equivocate.

yes, you are correct. i'm a huge liar, probably the worst on this site, totally delusional, and a total and complete idiot, and i do, don't forget, have an IQ of 16. and i love deceiving everyone i can, with all the BS attainable to this here and now, and i do it with the utmost underhanded thoughts, and.....i'm only 10, and i live in my mommy and daddy's basement,.....oh darn, i'll never get a date now. gee thanks mister. you made me cry. now i gotta tell my parents how bad i've been. yep, you caught me.....darn.

massage trade, i thought the same way as you at 35, that this is it, we die, and nothing. we rot and stop, right there, at that minute...... and the very next year, everything changed in my life. i had one of what you called "delusional experiences" on purpose, fully coherent.... not fitting! me! mister logic! wow. it was a pleasant wake-up call though, and gave me much, and what i thought was wrong, that my elders said, far eastern, and Native American alike, was right! i can't speak for christians though, for there are too many contradictions in their book, and it was re-written 4 times for man's control during King James time.


but fascinating! none-the-less.

i wonder what you think of Steven hawking's work. it's not proven either to a total fact. it does make sense, but since it's not absolutely proven, it's gotta be BS in your mind, and delusional too? dealing with other dimensions and all, and universes mirroring this one but different in many ways. and metaphysics has to be total bunk...... and with your immense learning of 35 worldly years...impossible.....


wow. that means you are able to box up and ship out far smarter men than you, that have been far more places than you, in this plane and beyond, including some scientists, WW2, and Vietnam vets that have seen very spiritual things,(oh, but that's the trauma of war, bunk! they're stronger than that, give em credit!) including many special forces officers i know that must be total flakes to you....including the entire Native American race.....

so.....all of us fib to ourselves???? wow! mass fibbing....(lying) incredible!....(remember, these aren't your religious, stick to the book, glassy-eyed followers here) these are people with high ideals and live on the word of truth.(other than when you call them fibbers ofcourse, then they are delusional, and don't know what's real....a dream of sorts)

i'm sure glad that you can dismiss all of them comfortably, and label us as what you have, and....good luck with that. really....good luck.

if energy retains memory then yes

Good on ya, DarkOwl ... right on, right on ...

What are you going on about? Is this comedy?

Yet another physicist, making a tiny contribution to the sum total of 'human knowledge'.



Are you showing us your best ability to reason? Do you think 'all that is not proven' is equally plausible?



This is not a matter of learning facts, this is a matter of learning to reason.



There are many aspects of intelligence, and having high intelligence is not guarantee of a sensible, sane, or reality-based worldview.

If someone makes a claim, I am interested in evidence for that claim and a conservative approach to declaring something true - not 'how smart' the person is who is making a claim. I assume 'box up and ship out' means something akin to 'disregard'. I don't disregard all those smart people, but I will gladly disregard some of their beliefs.



Do you have an emotional attachment to your belief?

Seems like anyone remotely connected to the field of Quantum Physics tends to pride him/er-self as somebody who knows "Everything"! But,even according to the world's leading scientists, the field is much too complex for the ordinary person to undestand. No wonder, those same world-reknown scientists cannot explain many mysterious phenomena that the field is "overcrowded" with -- that's why they've come up with such labels "Quantum Uncertainty", or "Quantum fuzziness", or EVEN "Quantum Weirdness"!!!

In other words, people, who pride themselve as knowing everything, operate with such values as ucertainty and fuzziness. Yet, most of them dare claiming to know everything!!! Boy, those falks are really weird -- in the quantum sence, of course!

Thus, I'd suggest they better ZIP IT before criticizing others from the scientific point of view!!! (because everything they know is either long outdated or quite Uncertain and Fuzzy, not to mention Weird!)

___________________________ BESIDES___________________
At the "10th International Conference on Science and Paranormal Phenomena" that took place 2 days ago at the Moscow Technical University , it was concluded that Quantum Mechanics -- developed in 1925/6 -- is incapable of explaining much of the paradoxes and phenomena, the existance of which requires the overhaul of the whole doctrine!!! (adding a temporal componnent, non-local interaction between the matterial objects -- the info-bio-energetic interaction between the objects)

Jane, I'm not clear exactly which demographic you are referring to - are you focused on formally educated people with a background in QM? People who have read a few popular books on the subject? Other?

As far as online forums go, I agree with you...in my experience, the people in online forums who claim knowledge of QM and then go on to make bizarre and absolutist statements about the nature of truth or reality are a completely different than the people you will find in academia who have actually studied QM.

Well, I appreciate your sense of humor.

i don't have.....beliefs. but thoughts, and awe at our universe, but unlike you, i can't can it or sum it up as neatly as you can with nice little bows, and chicken wire.

You got it right, MT -- the 2nd paragraph!!!