Topic: end of NASA manned space flight
metalwing's photo
Thu 04/15/10 02:23 PM

Looks like it's not over yet!

"President Barack Obama predicted today his new space exploration plans would lead American astronauts to Mars and back in his lifetime, a bold forecast relying on rockets and propulsion still to be imagined and built."

TBO.com


Wow! Talk about spin. I wonder what Niel Armstrong has to say?

metalwing's photo
Thu 04/15/10 02:32 PM
I found what Niel Armstrong and others had to say about Obama's plan.

Begin open letter.

The United States entered into the challenge of space exploration under President Eisenhower’s first term, however, it was the Soviet Union who excelled in those early years. Under the bold vision of Presidents Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon, and with the overwhelming approval of the American people, we rapidly closed the gap in the final third; of the 20th century, and became the world leader in space exploration.

America’s space accomplishments earned the respect and admiration of the world. Science probes were unlocking the secrets of the cosmos; space technology was providing instantaneous worldwide communication; orbital sentinels were helping man understand the vagaries of nature. Above all else, the people around the world were inspired by the human exploration of space and the expanding of man’s frontier. It suggested that what had been thought to be impossible was now within reach. Students were inspired to prepare themselves to be a part of this new age. No government program in modern history has been so effective in motivating the young to do “what has never been done before.”

World leadership in space was not achieved easily. In the first half-century of the space age, our country made a significant financial investment, thousands of Americans dedicated themselves to the effort, and some gave their lives to achieve the dream of a nation. In the latter part of the first half century of the space age, Americans and their international partners focused primarily on exploiting the near frontiers of space with the Space Shuttle and the International Space Station.

As a result of the tragic loss of the Space Shuttle Columbia in 2003, it was concluded that our space policy required a new strategic vision. Extensive studies and analysis led to this new mandate: meet our existing commitments, return to our exploration roots, return to the moon, and prepare to venture further outward to the asteroids and to Mars. The program was named "Constellation." In the ensuing years, this plan was endorsed by two Presidents of different parties and approved by both Democratic and Republican congresses.

The Columbia Accident Board had given NASA a number of recommendations fundamental to the Constellation architecture which were duly incorporated. The Ares rocket family was patterned after the Von Braun Modular concept so essential to the success of the Saturn 1B and the Saturn 5. A number of components in the Ares 1 rocket would become the foundation of the very large heavy lift Ares V, thus reducing the total development costs substantially. After the Ares 1 becomes operational, the only major new components necessary for the Ares V would be the larger propellant tanks to support the heavy lift requirements.

The design and the production of the flight components and infrastructure to implement this vision was well underway. Detailed planning of all the major sectors of the program had begun. Enthusiasm within NASA and throughout the country was very high.

When President Obama recently released his budget for NASA, he proposed a slight increase in total funding, substantial research and technology development, an extension of the International Space Station operation until 2020, long range planning for a new but undefined heavy lift rocket and significant funding for the development of commercial access to low earth orbit.

Although some of these proposals have merit, the accompanying decision to cancel the Constellation program, its Ares 1 and Ares V rockets, and the Orion spacecraft, is devastating.

America’s only path to low Earth orbit and the International Space Station will now be subject to an agreement with Russia to purchase space on their Soyuz (at a price of over 50 million dollars per seat with significant increases expected in the near future) until we have the capacity to provide transportation for ourselves. The availability of a commercial transport to orbit as envisioned in the President’s proposal cannot be predicted with any certainty, but is likely to take substantially longer and be more expensive than we would hope.

It appears that we will have wasted our current $10-plus billion investment in Constellation and, equally importantly, we will have lost the many years required to recreate the equivalent of what we will have discarded.

For The United States, the leading space faring nation for nearly half a century, to be without carriage to low Earth orbit and with no human exploration capability to go beyond Earth orbit for an indeterminate time into the future, destines our nation to become one of second or even third rate stature. While the President's plan envisages humans traveling away from Earth and perhaps toward Mars at some time in the future, the lack of developed rockets and spacecraft will assure that ability will not be available for many years.

Without the skill and experience that actual spacecraft operation provides, the USA is far too likely to be on a long downhill slide to mediocrity. America must decide if it wishes to remain a leader in space. If it does, we should institute a program which will give us the very best chance of achieving that goal.

Neil Armstrong
Commander, Apollo 11

James Lovell
Commander, Apollo 13

Eugene Cernan
Commander, Apollo 17

no photo
Thu 04/15/10 02:45 PM
Although some of these proposals have merit, the accompanying decision to cancel the Constellation program, its Ares 1 and Ares V rockets, and the Orion spacecraft, is devastating.


I believe The Orion spacecraft is going to be used as an escape pod on the ISS. But to me, it looks very similar to the Apollo and Soyuz crafts. So I don't know why NASA designed it in the first place.

no photo
Thu 04/15/10 03:24 PM
You know, this reminds me of the bargaining process at the market:
The Buyer: I give you $5 for this chicken!
The Seller: Are you kidding? this bird is practically an eagle!!! After all, your family's well-being depends on the propper nurishment! You need this "Eagle!!! I want at least $12!!! Otherwise, I have other buyers standing by..."
Other Buyers: Oh yeah, we're hungry too!!!

Eventually, they split the difference and the buyer leaves with the chicken, thinking: "What a luck -- a real eagle for just $8!!!"
The seller is happy too: I'm a genious -- passing that pigion for an eagle!!!

The president must've scared everybody with his short-sighted budget -- due to his iexperience... Thanxfully, Bill and the Congress must've set him straight Otherwise, the Congress would've never approved such a prepostorous budget!!!

(I guess,the "other buyers" deserve a gratitude also?)

metalwing's photo
Thu 04/15/10 04:14 PM
The mayor of Houston just blasted Obama on the evening news. Obama's speech was strangely given in Florida about Manned Spaceflight while the Manned Spaceflight Center is in Houston, which is looking to lay off about ten thousand workers including six thousand contract workers. Houston was not even mentioned.

The ten billion spent on the Constellation program is being wasted while much fewer funds are being given to multiple private firms to start from scratch.

One of the biggest complaints is that the infrastructure of NASA's manned spaceflight (Houston) is being dismantled and probably will never be resurrected leaving the US as a second or third class spacefaring nation. Although Mars was mentioned, no real progress on a Mars capable spacecraft is anticipated in the current plan for twenty years. Actually, there is no current plan, just vague comments.

no photo
Thu 04/15/10 04:32 PM
Strange, I just heard him approving $6 billion for the space program -- including the new type of spaceships (going much further and much faster). That hardly sounds like he's trying to kill the program! Nevertheless, the space program, obviously, is not his top priority!
Fortunately, the US political setup won't let him do as he pleases...

metalwing's photo
Thu 04/15/10 06:52 PM
It would appear that he was taking a lot of heat so he called this press conference to do some damage control.

He is ending the NASA manned space program. He is taking the Constellation program on which ten billion has been spent and is almost ready, and scraping it. There are no current manned NASA missions in the works.

He is taking six billion and spreading it around several different programs and some of the money is going to private firms to supply the space station etc. The final manned NASA flights to the space station will be on Russian rockets at very very very high prices.

His comment about 2500 jobs being added is probably why he didn't give the speech at the Houston facility where ten thousand are expected to lose their jobs as well as thousands in Georgia and Florida.

The fact of the matter is, his statement about being the president who most supports NASA and manned spaceflight simply is not true. The reality is that the US is about to lose top dog status in the space. Many who see what is happening, like Neil Armstrong, are speaking out.

no photo
Thu 04/15/10 07:40 PM
As I mentioned above, I don't think the Congress would approve such a prepostorous budget!!!


SkyHook5652's photo
Thu 04/15/10 11:09 PM
Edited by SkyHook5652 on Thu 04/15/10 11:10 PM
As I mentioned above, I don't think the Congress would approve such a prepostorous budget!!!
Hmmmmmm...

Congress???

Approve a preposterous budget???



Naw, they would never do anything like that now would they?


winking


no photo
Fri 04/16/10 12:15 AM
Edited by JaneStar1 on Fri 04/16/10 12:17 AM
oops Busted!
I admite, I'm no expert in US political system. But, if I'm not mistaken, the majority of Congress is Republican?

However, Obama fooled everybody with his scare of scrapping the space program off the budget. Then, following the general outcry, he turned around and offered $6 billion for the program! That was a pre-emptive strike: now, nobody would dare claiming that's too much!

Besides, such far reaching plans -- as landing on the asteroid, thus saving the fuel required for exploring the gallaxy -- should receive the approval... (not that he personally devised the idea, but still ingenious!)

no photo
Fri 04/16/10 07:55 AM
Edited by Kings_Knight on Fri 04/16/10 08:00 AM
As with every other 'project' this usurper has undertaken since his immaculation on 20 Jan '09, the planned destruction of NASA is one more step that will make America the 'begging boy' of the developed world. We'll need to go to China, Russia, India, or (wait for it) ... FRANCE (the ultimate humiliation) to ask, just like a little kid who's had his bike stolen by the thugs, if we can beg a ride ("We'll pay whatever you ask!") on THEIR rockets. This effectively puts about 5,000+ of the 'best and brightest' engineers and space scientists OUT OF WORK. You think that's gonna be easy for the NEXT president to rebuild? No. And it's INTENTIONAL on the part of this little Communist usurper. His statement about a 'bold new plan' is BS. His 'We'll put astronauts on asteroids!' crap is just so much smoke 'n mirrors and horsecrap. How are the 'astronauts' gonna GET there? WE won't be able to send 'em ... he's done away with OUR rockets, y' see ... The ancillary industries that SUPPLY the needs of NASA will also be gone. They'll switch to other manufacturing or just go out of business. What are their other choices when their largest (or only) client disappears overnight? There are none. Get used to being the 'poor kid on the block' who's always begging for a handout or food scraps ... it's 'The Way of 'The ONE'' ... planned destruction of the greatest nation on earth. This will, predictably, cause many (you know who you are) to rejoice and spooge themselves. I suggest you read (if you even have knowledge of its existence) Pastor Niemöller's poem ... google it. It's instructive - if you have the light to comprehend it.

no photo
Sat 04/17/10 07:49 PM
Edited by JaneStar1 on Sat 04/17/10 08:15 PM
Are running an Anti-Obama campaign?
So many words!!!

You could phrase it much nore eloquently:

I HATE HIM REGSRDLESS OF WHAT HE DOES, OR WILL DO!!!

And don't forget, none of his decisions will fly, unless the Congess spproves them!!! (especially regarding the National Security)

no photo
Sat 04/17/10 08:52 PM

Are running an Anti-Obama campaign?
So many words!!!

You could phrase it much nore eloquently:

I HATE HIM REGSRDLESS OF WHAT HE DOES, OR WILL DO!!!

And don't forget, none of his decisions will fly, unless the Congess spproves them!!! (especially regarding the National Security)


Goodness. Is that a personal attack? I thought we weren't supposed to do 'naughty stuff' like that on here. Haven't you read the rules? Looks and sounds pretty personal to me, tho' ...

no photo
Sat 04/17/10 09:24 PM
What are you talking about? Its just a general comment about a post I've seen.
If you take it personally, that's your own business -- I guess, you have a guilty conscience!!! LOL (If you find it necessary to resort to the "rules"!!!)

heavenlyboy34's photo
Sat 04/17/10 10:24 PM

Russia has just won the space program then.

Is there anything to look forward in USA beside a war with Iran?


Hopefully, we can look forward to the final collapse of the tyrannical federal government and more freedom! :banana: drinker

no photo
Sat 04/17/10 10:51 PM
First of all, its not a war, but a friendly competition!
(the war was with the Soviet Union that is no more, thanx god);

Second of all, its a temporary set back, a single battle, if you wish -- not the whole war!!!

And finally, MUCH MORE can be achieved with the friendly co-operation than with the foe-ish suspicion.

no photo
Sat 04/17/10 10:55 PM

What are you talking about? Its just a general comment about a post I've seen.
If you take it personally, that's your own business -- I guess, you have a guilty conscience!!! LOL (If you find it necessary to resort to the "rules"!!!)


Heh-heh-heh ... or should I say, heh-heh-heh-hehhhhhhhhhh ...

no photo
Sat 04/17/10 11:09 PM
That's OK -- I comprehend your EMBARRASSMENT!!! :laughing:

s1owhand's photo
Sun 04/18/10 12:39 AM
What a waste.

lovingboater's photo
Wed 04/21/10 07:43 AM
Back in the 60's, when NASA was gearing up for the flights to the moon, what most people do not know, is that for every dollar that was spent on NASA, ELEVEN dollars came back into the U.S. Economy... This is a fact.

NASA has always urged the transfer of technology from the main aerospace manufacturers to smaller start ups and other companies that have developed many products from that transfer. Even today, research that is done for the sake of NASA, is moved over to the business sector. It seems that no one is talking about any of this.

Where do you think your microwave oven came from...? NASA...
Where do you think your trusty remote came from...? NASA...
Where do you think the NET, really came from...? NASA... By-Product.
Where do you thing our communications capability is from...? NASA...

Even our GPS, has it's roots within the military, and too a smaller effect, NASA, which helped the transfer of technology from military applications to commercial applications...

Why was GPS developed...? How do you thing we guide our cruise missiles...? And why was the world mapped...?

Which today, people use that technology, using Google... And so many companies that help consumers to find their stores...

All of this has helped to create the economy we used to have. This is the story that Congress needs to hear. And NASA has "NEVER" known how to boast about what it has given back to our economy, which is understandable, because they are engineers, not marketing people...

NASA is absolutely necessary to the economy of this country and to our aerospace industry. And not just for jobs... How many problems have been solved by NASA engineers, sitting and having coffee with aerospace engineers at a conference. You wouldn't believe it...

I worked for over 40 years helping to protect this country. I cannot discuss my activities in full here. But suffice to say, that in order for me to accomplish what I did, I needed to know about projects within this country, so that we could understand information coming out of the old Soviet Union. And the effects of costing of projects in both countries. Essentially, to save the one and bankrupt the other... Which we did...