We're a leader in the national debt arena! :)

WHEN GOING GETS TOUGH, THE TOUGH GETS GOING!!!

In the midst of the worst economic recession since 1930's, its difficult justifying literally wasting billions of dollars for something that has only a potential return.

However, canceling some of the programs is the necessary measure for saving the most essential program itself!

Perhaps, moving the program into private financing might popularize (and even extend) the program...

Armed with the Hammer and a Cicle, Russia may only accomplish so much without the US assistance!

Actually, they could, but it will take them 10 times longer to accomplish anything on their own -- without "the yanky know-how"!!!

They still have't managed landing a man on the Moon -- although they've managed to put a mobile robot there back in the end of 60's!

I don't believe that privatized missions are realistic in the near future. This is from the perspective of someone living in an X-prize/Spaceport focused zone. Just my opinion.

The problem with privatization of the space program is that no private company has the money to risk what can't be replaced, i.e., the cost of a major spacecraft.

The space program is already largely privatized anyway. Companies like Boeing and Lockheed build NASA's gear, not NASA. Without a source of money for the original design, no private firm is going there in any real way.

The success of Burt Rutan in his Spaceship One design was the need and ability to keep it simple in the extreme. The fuel for the rocket engine was ground up old tires. The pressure relief valve in the spaceship was a cork in a hole. He may have make a successful flight into near earth space but the usefulness of the achievement is very limited... but still great.



Sadly, the manned space program is really not that expensive and only a few of the wasteful projects on which congress spends money could foot the bill.

LOL..and this is kinda painful of a laugh, but even Iran has a space program.

Iran fires satellite carrier into space
http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=117739&sectionid=3510208

Obama is not attempting to end the US Space program. He is attempting to end the MANNED space program. The Mars mission would surely have been a Bush legacy but the nine billion dollars already spent is being discarded.

the civilian space industry is cruising right along

construction has begun on America's first civilian spaceport

http://www.spaceportamerica.com/construction/construction-status.html



Virgin Galactic is the anchor tenant of Spaceport America. They are pre selling space flight tourist packages for $200,000. Just this last December they unveiled their new commercial space vehicle

http://www.virgingalactic.com/news/item/spaceshiptwo-roll-out/


it doesnt really matter what NASA does. the civilian space industry is gearing up and soon (20 yrs? 50yrs?) will eclipse NASA

Virgin Galactic's VSS Enterprise in Dec 2009


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKxDp5wZqlE


its a small step but an amazingly giant step

NASA may still have a place in research but when it comes to earth orbit and near earth industry the commercial space industry has the innovation and the ability to do what NASA cant do



Virgin Galactic booking for spaceflight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j21nZ3ewJno

I found more

aerial video of Spaceport America construction as of 2 months ago (November 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0NHE1WRi3s



and this update from Dec 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-it49i3vQo



NASA for all of its beauracracy and government red tape is old prehistoric and disfunctional. As for me I am glad to see NASA falling by the wayside. They have actually retarded the American space industry as if it were their own personal domain

The civilian and commercial space program is poised to bypass NASA and leave them in the dust as the non competitive dinosaur that they are

The Rutan designs (Spaceship One and Two) will eventually be supplemented with a vehicle capable of orbit and all are for the purpose of selling rides into near Earth space; $200,000 per ride on Spaceship Two.

The rockets being privately developed by the few other US firms are primarily to find a cheaper way to launch small satellites. Obama didn't cut the budget for unmanned space science, just the manned part.

Russia is the only country left with heavy lift capability but the European union is expected to field a design. China is expected to catch up and pass everyone. No private firm of which I am aware is competing in heavy lifting such as needed to send a man to Mars, with the notable exception of SpaceX which has plans of a grander scale.

The situation is somewhat like building cars. If a US firm wanted to build an auto plant to build and sell cars but China was going to build their plant for free (cost not added to cost of launch), the US firms could not compete with the Chinese firm. If China was going to operate and sell the lift capability, one again, no US firm could compete.

I look at it more as the species getting off the planet and into space so I dont really care if it's Russians or Chinese or Americans

in the long view (200 years) it doesnt matter who it is as long as we get the species off the planet and into space

I dont think we'll survive as a species unless we do

The space shuttle uses a liquid oxygen/hydrogen propulsion system. CO2 is not an exhaust by product. Water is. NASA helped to develop the fuel cell technology. You might want to get your facts straight.

In any case, this is just a phase we're goinh through -- not the end of space exploration.

As the economy rebounds, so will the space exploration -- I bet my behind on it!!!

There was an exploration phase in the sailboat days too. Much of the new world was explored by only a few countries. When we explore Mars and the asteroid belt, we may not be much of a player.

a friend of mine that works at JPL was telling me all about this the other day.... damm near makes me regret voting for obama.

You should hear my friends at JSC. The campaign promises bear no semblance to the action taken.

My initial thoughts when I looked at Quietman's links re: Spaceport America were both:

"Wow! I've lived her 14 years and they are FINALLY getting something significant going!" followed by
"Bull...there is nothing over there but lots of open space and nothingness!"

I drove out to Upham yesterday afternoon to take a first hand look and took some photos, posted below (hopefully I've sized them to display well - if not, don't panic, I'll go fix them and edit this post! ) The point of this isn't to argue (and clearly there is SOME work going on if you drive far enough or have the means to take an aerial tour.) The purpose is just to remind people that flashy marketing photography on the internet is just that - an effort to "sell" an idea, draw investors, and advertise your own business/enterprise.

So here's a chance to take a virtual drive with me...
Go about 25 miles north on I-25, go through the Border Patrol Inspection Station and find this flashy sign at the exit to Upham, NM.


The first thing you'll see at the bottom of the 'ramp' is some of NM's finest pavement...


I got a little excited at the idea of a relatively fresh bladed road with fresh gravel...this is big stuff in terms of maintenance, so I was optimistic! (BTW - roads go a long, long way out into the desert!)


But all good things must come to an end and a couple miles later, it did...no more gravel! While this was still a pretty good road by our standards, there were plenty of places where it was like a washboard or otherwise torn up, standing water, etc. I drove about 10 miles. This is also heading into the Ag Research property and there are a couple ranches out there - notice the cow-crossing sign? Yep...also plenty of cattle-guards on the road, as well. Not exactly conducive to trailering in expensive & sensitive space exploration equipment.





Another issue in a remote area like this is the likelihood of vandals messing with things...here's a couple typical examples of signs having been shot up - the little one is a survey marker from when they bladed the road - you can not disturb anything of archeological or environmental significance, making construction of ANYTHING more difficult!



For all that "Uncle Bill" (Gov Richardson) is promoting economic development via this endeavor, you need to remember that NM is the 4th poorest state in the nation and the area is NOT where the big money is. This is located where there's big open space, cheap land, and agriculture (mostly ranching.) Sierra and Dona Anna counties approved the Spaceport tax referendum, Otero (my county) did not - but trust me, these counties can NOT build a facility like that through their tax base - go research demographic for the area and you'll understand why!

I'm all for privatization, but remember that it's taken many years to get as far as they have. This venture can't replace the NASA program and certainly isn't the future of manned space flight/scientific exploration for the USA.

Bottom line...if you believe everything you see and read on the internet, you are likely to get a big pile of...

Thanx for a wonderful scenery!!!
Though its hard to confuse the sight and smell of the "Grand Canyon" --

-- with everything I see and read on the Internet...