All very astute questions.

I believe the answer to all of them will depend on development. Brains develop in nature (we go from fetus to baby to toddler to child to young adult to adult . . ., I think if we try to skip that process we will not create a proper simulation.

The impulses from our sense are probably the easiest part to replicate, once you have a brain at the right stage of development with the proper form and function, give it the right stimulus for that stage of development, I see no reason it would not answer your questions in the affirmative.


Greg Egans book called Permutation city is a great fiction based on these concepts.

I am thinking they might have to create the illusion of a 'body' inside of the brain's 'reality' so it can actually feel and interact with the reality it creates. Kind of like these virtual reality games.

Like a hologram with its own reality and a body to operate inside of that reality.



After they accomplish this, and that brain thinks it is living in a real reality how do you suppose they will break the news to it that it is all a reality of its own making and that it is just a brain?

What if we are just a brain in some computer somewhere?

Something to think about.

Also, if that brain is all alone in that reality, won't it get lonely? Won't we need to give it some company and create more "people?"

Then, are we Gods?

If we can walk into that reality and occupy holographic icons or bodies, then aren't we like... sons of God?

These are the very concepts used in the fiction in the book I suggested. Its sci-fi now, but like many sci-fi concepts it may become sci-fact.

In fact when I finish school I really want to get involved with this kind of research. I may need to finish my CS degree to keep up on the tech side, but the physics of the very small is a large part of what I study and a large part of the brains communication system.

I actually saw a movie that addressed this kind of reality. The people in the computer were seemingly 'real' and 'conscious' but a user could plug in to the computer and assume any of their bodies as his own and live out any fantasy s/he wanted.

The people in the computer did not know they were in a computer simulation, or that they were not real people, and they would have 'missing time' and wake up in a lot of strange situations or in jail etc.

The people outside of the computer world had no idea at first that the people inside of it were conscious souls or 'real' people... sort of.

When they discovered what was going on, they stopped allowing users to possess the bodies in the computer and just maintained the computer world as they considered it to contain intelligent conscious life.

This same idea is addressed in the movie "matrix" but with a different twist or plot. I consider the movie "matrix" to be a rather dark and depressing story.

Jeremy:
Those steps may be necessary for humans...
But for computers, its just a matter of installing another memory card!!!

I tried real hard to communicate the meaning of 'non-physical' but the only way to convey was with my non-physical fingers... and they simply output that communication to a non-physical screen... soooo...

in order to receive that communication I reckon yall will have to tune into the non-physical internet and download it non-physically.

The problem I see with the blue brain project is if it does go beyond its intended purpose and gets into 'consciousness' etc, I think it would need to have a 'body' to operate inside of its delusional reality that it creates.

We know we exist because we have a body and we are self aware. We actually identify ourselves with our body. If a simulated computer 'brain' does not have a 'body' what will its self-awareness be like?

Well if it creates a delusional or 'virtual' reality...

It just might create itself a 'virtual' or delusional body...

Isn't it quite possible that we also do this on a different level?

I beg your pardon, but do you really think people (who are paralyzed from the neck down) are unconscious and not self aware?

Yes that is what I said.

I also asked the question... once this being becomes aware of itself in its own reality, how do we break the news to it that it is only a computer simulated character inside of its own self created reality?

We don't. We hope he figures it out for himself.

Nope...

from the neck up though?

No. Why do you ask?

... because of your earlier post:

As long as the brain is capable of acquiring an input and producing an output -- ITS ALIVE!!!

Well we were not talking about a person paralyzed from the neck down we were talking about the Blue Brain Project of building a brain similar to a human brain.

but since you invoked the analogy to people's self awareness based upon having a body, I meant to imply the body isn't really necessary for the purpose of being conscious...

True. But a person paralyzed from the neck down and conscious IS aware of their body. The computer brain, on the other hand is just a brain. No eye, no nose, no sense of touch, etc. Then, if it creates its own reality, it has no body. It is just a dis-embodied spirit floating through a dream world.

So, it must then manifest a dream body to interact with its reality.

As I mentioned yesterday,
As long as the brain is capable of acquiring an input and producing an output -- ITS ALIVE!!!

(a keyboard and a monitor -- that's all!

_______Computer has no concept of the body!!! -- and therefore No need for it! It's prime purpose (for now) is Thinking, i.e. performing computations according to the algorithms...

"Moving around is for those pathetic humans" LOL

P.S. However, Japan has already produced a dumb toy robot (full size) capable of performing simple tasks...
Unfortunately, current level of the technology doesn't allow for marrying the two together -- computer miniturialization has still a way to go! (though we're on the right track...)

I think that the computer analogy can provide some insight into the concept of "body".

With human bodies, there are senses that receive input. The eyes and ears are probably the most readily compared to the computer analogy. If we hook up a camera and a microphone to the computer, would tha not be equivalent to giving it "sight" and "hearing". And if we go further and put it into a robotic mechanism that is capabale of ambulation, we need to provide a whole complex system for sensing the relationship between the mechanism and the terrain over which it it ambulating.

So it seems to me that the whole system of mechanical and electronic input/output devices, which provide the "brain" with an interface to the external world, would be functionally equivalent to a "body".

Correct, an analog may be challenging to build but a finite task.

What exactly was the point? Not being rude but honestly curious, I love this topic.