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Topic: god or whoever way exist
Milesoftheusa's photo
Fri 11/20/09 08:08 PM

Why does N and S America look like they used to be connected to Europe and Africa?

Catastrophic Plate Tectonics
The catastrophic plate tectonics model of Austin et al. described in this article begins with a pre-Flood supercontinent surrounded by cold ocean-floor rocks that were denser (heavier) per unit volume than the warm mantle rock beneath.7 To initiate motion, this model requires a sudden trigger large enough to “crack” the ocean floor adjacent to the supercontinent, so that zones of cold, heavy ocean-floor rock start sinking into the upper mantle.

In this model (Figures 3 and 4), as the ocean floor (in the areas of the ocean trenches) sinks into the mantle, it drags the rest of the ocean floor with it, in a conveyor-belt-like fashion. The sinking slabs of cold ocean floor produce stress in the surrounding hot mantle rock. These stresses, in turn, cause the rock to become hotter and more deformable, allowing ocean slabs to sink even faster. The ultimate result is a runaway process that causes the entire pre-Flood ocean floor to sink to the bottom of the mantle in a matter of a few weeks. As the slabs sink (at rates of feet-per-second) down to the mantle/core boundary, enormous amounts of energy are released.8

The rapidly sinking ocean-floor slabs cause large-scale convection currents, producing a circular flow throughout the mantle. The hot mantle rock displaced by these subducting slabs wells up to the mid-ocean rift zones where it melts and forms new ocean floor. Here, the liquid rock vaporizes huge volumes of ocean water to produce a linear curtain of supersonic steam jets along the entire 43,500 mi (70,000 km) of the seafloor rift zones. Perhaps this is what is meant by the “fountains of the great deep” in Genesis 7:11. These supersonic steam jets capture large amounts of water as they “shoot” up through the ocean into the atmosphere. Water is catapulted high above the earth and then falls back to the surface as intense global rain, which is perhaps the source for the “floodgates of heaven” in Genesis 7:11.

As the ocean floor warms during this process, its rock expands, displacing sea water, forcing a dramatic rise in sea level. Ocean water would have swept up onto and over the continental land surfaces, carrying vast quantities of sediments and marine organisms with them to form the thick, fossiliferous sedimentary rock layers we now find blanketing large portions of today’s continents. Rocks like this are magnificently exposed in the Grand Canyon, for example. Slow-and-gradual plate tectonics simply cannot account for such thick, laterally extensive sequences of sedimentary strata containing marine fossils over such vast interior continental areas high above sea level.


msharmony's photo
Fri 11/20/09 11:26 PM
Edited by msharmony on Fri 11/20/09 11:53 PM


Is there a bible scholar here who can tell me if the bible ever stated that it included EVERY detail of the ark?,,,,,just curious


as Scotty would say to Captain Kirk.."Captain you can't change the laws of physics"

in other words if Noah didn't reason out all the possible things that such an ark would need to deal with a flood but just relied on Divine Intervention then there is no point to the story, no point in Noah spending all those years building the ark ..it clearly cancel out free will ....but then again there was no free will anyway since God violated the Prime Directive and drown everyone


You are clearly still not understanding what free will is..as far as all the IFS , you are incorrect but the question I asked was Are there any biblical scholars(those who actually studied the whoe body of literature and the theories behind it) who know whether the bible suggested that it had listed EVERY element of the Ark or every element of how it was built?

no photo
Sat 11/21/09 05:20 AM

You are clearly still not understanding what free will is..


Msharmony...you recently said that animals have "Free Will" ..so what would the animals need to understand about "Free Will" to know how to use it...

what people don't understand about "Free Will" is that they don't have "Free Will" or better yet do not know how to activate it...this is why people only have "Choice" and even choice is not "Free"

"Choice" means you only get to choose from a limited set of options that are presented to you and you are not permitted to go beyond those options ...and it is the laws of physics that present these option in which these laws "force" you to choose ...that you are forced to choose is why the "Will" is not free therefore no "Free Will"

supposedly only a God has "Free Will" because it supposedly is not forced to do anything ...as long as you are forced to eat food and drink water to survive then your "Will" is under the jurisdiction of the laws of physics and you therefore have no "Free Will" you only have choice

jrbogie's photo
Sat 11/21/09 07:07 AM

Is there a bible scholar here who can tell me if the bible ever stated that it included EVERY detail of the ark?,,,,,just curious


i know almost every detail about the ark. i only have one question left unanswered. can anybody tell me what a cubit is? breaking my rule of never pasting a youtube link, this one is just too funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0KHt8xrQkk

msharmony's photo
Sat 11/21/09 08:00 AM


You are clearly still not understanding what free will is..


Msharmony...you recently said that animals have "Free Will" ..so what would the animals need to understand about "Free Will" to know how to use it...

what people don't understand about "Free Will" is that they don't have "Free Will" or better yet do not know how to activate it...this is why people only have "Choice" and even choice is not "Free"

"Choice" means you only get to choose from a limited set of options that are presented to you and you are not permitted to go beyond those options ...and it is the laws of physics that present these option in which these laws "force" you to choose ...that you are forced to choose is why the "Will" is not free therefore no "Free Will"

supposedly only a God has "Free Will" because it supposedly is not forced to do anything ...as long as you are forced to eat food and drink water to survive then your "Will" is under the jurisdiction of the laws of physics and you therefore have no "Free Will" you only have choice





seriously? Fine,, you call it choice, I will continue to call it free will,,if it is up to my discretion to choose it,,than it is free. I have the choice to survive or not(heard of suicide) so I am also not FORCED to eat or drink.

no photo
Sat 11/21/09 08:18 AM
Before there was a Bible, as we understand it, there were other manuscripts extant and one of these was the Epic of Gilgamesh, written some 1500 years before and there is also the story of the flood. Different words, different people but essentially very, very similar. The Bible does offer understandings of God's dealings with mankind, it would be a very foolish man who chose to assign God to a place of ridicule, or forgettingness.The Bible does offer one wonderful insight though, God invites you to come to a place where you are welcome to argue/discuss your concerns with Him.

no photo
Sat 11/21/09 09:28 AM

seriously? Fine,, you call it choice, I will continue to call it free will,,if it is up to my discretion to choose it,,than it is free. I have the choice to survive or not(heard of suicide) so I am also not FORCED to eat or drink.


Msharmony...as I said in the previous post... you are only supplied with a limited set of options to make a choice...the choices are that you must eat or you must die...and you have no choice but to pick one of the two...if you had "Free Will" you wouldn't have to choose

if you decide not to choose from these options presented to you then the laws of physics will choose an option for you and you have no choice but to comply ...

someone can hold you as a prisoner ...do you have the Free Will to leave ...


msharmony's photo
Sat 11/21/09 09:55 AM


seriously? Fine,, you call it choice, I will continue to call it free will,,if it is up to my discretion to choose it,,than it is free. I have the choice to survive or not(heard of suicide) so I am also not FORCED to eat or drink.


Msharmony...as I said in the previous post... you are only supplied with a limited set of options to make a choice...the choices are that you must eat or you must die...and you have no choice but to pick one of the two...if you had "Free Will" you wouldn't have to choose

if you decide not to choose from these options presented to you then the laws of physics will choose an option for you and you have no choice but to comply ...

someone can hold you as a prisoner ...do you have the Free Will to leave ...




so your argument is that by having to make choices , I have no free will. INteresting point of view,,,I disagree. Having to make a choice is a direct function of having a BRAIN. As long as my brain is working,,any action I take or dont take, involves me choosing unless it is an involuntary action which would not even fall under the category of choice or free will because its pre programmed into the body. The fact that I choose is an example of my free will and evidence of a working brain.

no photo
Sat 11/21/09 10:23 AM

so your argument is that by having to make choices , I have no free will. INteresting point of view,,,I disagree. Having to make a choice is a direct function of having a BRAIN. As long as my brain is working,,any action I take or dont take, involves me choosing unless it is an involuntary action which would not even fall under the category of choice or free will because its pre programmed into the body. The fact that I choose is an example of my free will and evidence of a working brain.


if a working brain is what you classify as having "Free Will" then that would mean that you could form an independent rational thought that no one in history ever utter ...can you

if the answer is no ...and you can not form your own independent rational thought apart from the human collective ....then how can you classify this as being "Free Will"

msharmony's photo
Sat 11/21/09 10:27 AM


so your argument is that by having to make choices , I have no free will. INteresting point of view,,,I disagree. Having to make a choice is a direct function of having a BRAIN. As long as my brain is working,,any action I take or dont take, involves me choosing unless it is an involuntary action which would not even fall under the category of choice or free will because its pre programmed into the body. The fact that I choose is an example of my free will and evidence of a working brain.


if a working brain is what you classify as having "Free Will" then that would mean that you could form an independent rational thought that no one in history ever utter ...can you

if the answer is no ...and you can not form your own independent rational thought apart from the human collective ....then how can you classify this as being "Free Will"


Excuse me, I am temporarily lost in your circular logic and my only reply is,,,,,,,what are you talking about?

RoamingOrator's photo
Sat 11/21/09 10:33 AM


Is there a bible scholar here who can tell me if the bible ever stated that it included EVERY detail of the ark?,,,,,just curious


i know almost every detail about the ark. i only have one question left unanswered. can anybody tell me what a cubit is? breaking my rule of never pasting a youtube link, this one is just too funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0KHt8xrQkk


A cubit is the average distance from your elbow to your fingertip.

no photo
Sat 11/21/09 10:52 AM

Excuse me, I am temporarily lost in your circular logic and my only reply is,,,,,,,what are you talking about?


if you are temporarily lost..then why would you claim that the logic is circular....

but anyway you claim that a working brain is what classify "Free Will" ...if this is true then it would be a simple task for you to form at least one independent rational thought all on your own that no one else ever said

you either can or you can't ...if you can then let's hear it...but if you can't... then why can't you

RoamingOrator's photo
Sat 11/21/09 10:53 AM
Genesis 1:1-3

(1)In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (2) And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of teh deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (3) And God said Let there be light, and there was light.



In most religious discussions, there is not enough emphasis put upon this passage. The notion of "light" is used all through the bible to describe the spirit of God, it is literally interupted to mean "good" or "love of God."

The one thing that must be pointed out, and so rarely is, is that before anything existed there was God. Before God was light, he was darkness. Therefore, the living spirit of God leans towards darkness (or evil as represented in the teachings) before it leans towards light.

Ask about that one in Sunday School.

Foliel's photo
Sun 12/06/09 04:01 AM
I view the bible as I do all books on mythology that I have read. A collection of stories to be read, enjoyed (if you enjoy those stories that is), and then let the moral of the story apply. That is all. I don't live my life according to the bible, nor do I live my life according to the other books of mythology I have read.

Without having actually been there, we can't know what happened in that time. So I will leave it up to religious people to believe in the bible, santa clause and whatever else they have faith in. (not being mean, just being honest)

jrbogie's photo
Sun 12/06/09 04:46 AM
Edited by jrbogie on Sun 12/06/09 04:47 AM

i believe certain things


well we've had folks discuss their beliefs often here. just what are your delusions?frustrated laugh

no photo
Sun 12/06/09 05:33 AM


i believe certain things


well we've had folks discuss their beliefs often here. just what are your delusions?frustrated laugh


My delusion is that I believe everyone is intelligent and open-minded.

I guess I'm just an un-informed, brainwashed, immature, absurd, non-sensical, delusional idiot who doesn't use my brain for believing such a rediculous, and preposterous absurdity. :wink:

no photo
Sun 12/06/09 06:46 AM


i believe certain things


well we've had folks discuss their beliefs often here. just what are your delusions?frustrated laugh


claiming a belief as being truth is discussing one's delusion

but all one has to do is utter the word faith and delusion magically turns into reality and faith turns into practicing witchcraft

faith is the thin line between reality and delusion and is the catalyst that helps make delusion acceptable within a given society

msharmony's photo
Sun 12/06/09 08:29 AM



i believe certain things


well we've had folks discuss their beliefs often here. just what are your delusions?frustrated laugh


My delusion is that I believe everyone is intelligent and open-minded.

I guess I'm just an un-informed, brainwashed, immature, absurd, non-sensical, delusional idiot who doesn't use my brain for believing such a rediculous, and preposterous absurdity. :wink:


I agree.. people can make up their own minds. I could choose to spend my days demanding proof of all the things they taught me in history class,,but I choose not to. I have faith that those teaching and those who wrote knew what they were talking about. People once thought the idea of man going to the moon was nonsense , but Man did it. I have the same faith in the Lord but I dont knock those who dont even though many christians do. Likewise , many non believers knock my faith and the faith of others,,,,,

its just the way of the world (no pun intended)

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