'When to die' must always be a decision to the person involved. However,
I think that HOW this key principle is to be implemented raises
difficult secondary questions. For example:

1. 'Pressure' by people who do not have the individual's best interests
at heart

2. The difficulty of predicting whether a person might recover from a
bad medical situation

3. The capacity of a person who is under heavy sedation to make such a
decision

4. The mechanics of the act

All of these secondary questions have to be satisfactorily answered
before we have a viable policy and practice through which to implement
the key principle.

Good thread, Oldsage!

To your question: the role of doctors in this. It seems to me that the
purpose of a doctor is to prolong life, not to prolong death. And it
seems to me that doctors, as such, have little to do with the decision
to end one's life after they have contributed what they have to
contribute: an honest assessment of the patient's chances at recovery
and a quality life. After they have provided this information, they have
played their part.

We should not expect doctors to also carry the burden of executing the
decision. They know how to do so, their advice can be asked, or they can
provide drugs to do it, but they should not be expected to take on the
burden of carrying out the deed, any more so than the corner baker
should.

At some point, we will all have available the means to carry out our
decisions without external help. Most of us will want to confer with
friends and family, but after that is done, we should have devices that
we can trigger ourselves.

Hospice is wonderful, I can't say enough about the courage and strength,
love and compassion that these folks have. (I know this from personal
experience....). Perhaps this will be a natural role for hospice to take
on formally. In some key ways, it already is, and the people involved
seemed best placed to help, and far better than the average doctor.
Hospice already helps the terminally ill -- it will not be a big stretch
for them to embrace those who have decided that they have reached their
end.

But for this to happen formally and well, the secondary issues I listed
above will have to be decided by society as a whole.

Death is too important -- and too prevalent -- to be left in some dark
and secretive corner of our social conscience.

My two cents.....

To all those for whom this issue has gone beyond the
theoretical...

And to those who are already, in one way or the other, helping...


Oceans

We all face death of our bodies in the end...

Suicide is suicide- even when assisted. It's wrong.

Some of us have to go through more than others.

Leave it to the natural way. Use pain medications for

pain,etc... but no one has the right to end anyones life.

That is my belief and opinion... Help that person be as

comfortable as possible and be there for them in thier

journey through death...

I do not think that suicide should be encouraged,
but I also do not agree with prolonging
someone's poor quality of life unnecessarily.

We put animals down so they dont suffer, why shouldnt humans with a
clear mind not have that choice?

MsTeddyBear, a couple of question...

Why is suicide "wrong"?
What does "natural" mean, as in 'natural death'?

Thanks,
Oceans

I believe life is a great gift that is given to us...

I don't believe we have a right to take it away.

I don't think we should prolong things either- just make them

comfortable till they pass on.

Yes I meant as in the natural process...

We are all born and we all die...

TeddyBear....
I am still unclear what you mean when you say that suicide is "wrong".
Wrong in terms of what? By what standard is it "wrong"?

And I still don't understand what you mean by "natural". Yes, we all
die. But what do you mean by a "natural" death. What makes something
natural, as opposed to unnatural?

This is my belief...


By un natural- I don't believe in putting people down like an

animal...to me that is not natural.

I am NOT going to argue or debate over my beliefs...

You believe what you want, and I will believe in what I want.

Have a good day everyone...

good for you....teddy bear...I think you stated it very well..We all the
have the right to believe the way we do...

and we don't have to go on and on defending our stance
or dissecting each other's every word...

and the lion shall lay down with the lamb.



love to all.....

"May the peace that passes all understanding
dwell in our hearts today and everyday"

Hi, Teddy Bear!
I was not challenging you or your beliefs--only trying to understand
them.

Sorry for the intensity with which I did so!



Oceans

Thanks, TeddyBear.

I really do apologize. I know my words sometimes miscommunicate what is
on my mind.


Oceans

We already have POLST forms that tell the doctors your wishes should you
suffer a life threatening event, i.e., continue your life on with life
support or allow you to die peacefully. These forms are filled out and
witnessed while you are of sound mind by your doctor with him in
agreement and explained by him.

I don't believe Kevorkian ever made arrangements with anyone who was
sedated, only those of sound mind. Some diseases are totally awful,
like Lou Gehrigs, where people lose the ability to swallow and drown in
their own saliva, and some of the others. I think people shoould be
allowed to make the decision, while of sound mind and non sedated if
they wish, to be helped to the other side peacefully, and painlessly.

If you have concerns, ask your doctor to fill out a POLST form also,
will be put in your file at the doctors office, and the hospital and you
put a copy on your refrigerator, and if you should have a heart attack,
the ambulance crew will search your house for a copy while they are
assessing you BEFORE starting CPR on you and you would be allowed to
pass in peace, if that is your wish. Do the form now before something
happens and it is too late, after you have had a stroke and your mind
may be altered for life you may not be allowed to complete the form.
Take care.

What does POLST stand for?

Thanks.

Oceans

Physticians Orders for Life Sustaining Treatment - POLST Form - sorry it
took me so long to answer = was at work. All the doctors offices and
Health Departments, nursing homes, etc., have them. Allows you to plan
ahead for how you want to be treated in a life-threatening emergency.