I will give you my ideas on the above first, then take another look at the rest of your post.

I would say yes, "time" is a location. This is true for the "time traveler" operating from outside of the matrix. The reason this is true is because time (within a given three dimensional holographic matrix) does depend upon the position of objects within the matrix and the positions of objects within the matrix depend upon events happening within the matrix.

1. There are many matrices.
2. I believe that they are connected in that they (many of them) exist within each other. One matrix (or many) exist within another matrix. Each one has its own space-time.
3. A matrix can appear to "emerge" from one state to another but you are going to need an observer to see that emergence.
4. "Holographic" loosely describes the infinite nature of a reflected three dimensional world/reality.

The important thing within a matrix are the events. The events determine the position of the holographic (reflected) objects, and the objects determine the "time" or location of the events.

Jeanniebean:






Some people, (like myself) have become aware of many persona's or psyche's(ego's) existing within my own current "ego" even inside of this present body I am in. I have even given names to a few of mine. This is not a 'split' personality, because we are very much a 'group.' We acknowledge and cooperate with each other.

So the true YOU is probably splitting into many different 'egos' just as your higher self has split into many 'egos' and incarnated into many different locations in time. Each higher self is thought to have about 1500 life streams working at the same time in this matrix and some also in the the astral world.

I am not sure if I understand all of the above. But I will try to express how simultaneous incarnations might work. From the point of view of the higher self (soul) doing the incarnating, the incarnations are "sequential," one after another. So they will have a first and last incarnation. BUT they are projecting into a matrix with a different space-time where they can choose any location in time with each and every incarnation. They are outside of the time lines here, in regards to this matrix. These 'birth' locations do not have to be in order as they are not subject to the time here. (They are like time travelers, or maybe like probes with fingers in many different time lines.)

The only reason for calling them "simultaneous" is because they can have many life streams living different lives -throughout time- in this matrix, while the galaxy aliens can only have a single life stream going into the matrix at one time, --or probably because from where they project their space-time is similar or confined within this matrix.

The only way this can happen is if everything is happening at once -- or because time is meaningless outside of a particular space-time environment.

Imagine a holographic movie full of many events and stories that you could project yourself into at any point of the plot. The beginning, the middle or the end. It is difficult to think in multiple dimensions but this is what we are dealing with.

It is all mind stuff, memories, and events, with observers.

JB wrote:


Yes – I like the idea of matrix within matrix – in fact it may be more consistent with my idea of an ever emerging (matrix) which we might call emergent matrices to identify that some have developed around previously formed matrix – as in my example of Adam and Eve pre-existing dinosaurs.

In our current frame of reference in which (human) time must be sequential and events must have these same characteristics, such an idea would be absurd. But in a constantly emerging matrix (human) time is not a sequence of events but a series of events at a location. We might even consider that such events are causes for the location to emerge from the matrix? This would most definitely make events the important (determining factor) within a matrix.

So at this point I see only one real dilemma – that of “simultaneous incarnation”. If our matrices consist of other dimensions and even those that are not physical and so on, trying to fit them into frame of reference for time and space seems illogical – but then I’m not sure if you mean time as in human terms or if you mean time as location. Certainly all parts of the existing matrices are currently active – in other words all locations which exist on the matrix are occupied by the events that created them.

So if we consider multiple incarnations we cannot imagine going BACK to the PAST because we inherently know it can’t be done – so we think we go forward. But do we really? It’s not a question of going forward (to the future) or back (to the past) it is much more simple than that – we simply create a new location which is most likely influenced by the spirits (needs, desires,) based on past experiences (which are probably known to the spirit in its natural form.

Am I making sense?

Anyway,
I think that comes together nicely - but I’m thinking maybe the term “holographic” is too confining – unless we actually are confining our thought to locations within the matrix that are necessarily physical.

I JUST NOTICED - you and I overposted JB. I still have to read your last post (the one before this one) So I may or may not seem to be agreeing with you. I'll get back (to this past)

Yes, I think I understand this – but I think maybe we can take it further. You are always talking about how we “create” – it seems to me your support for this theory lies in this matrix idea. As I was mentioning in my previous post – I don’t think we are born into an existing part of the matrix, I think we might actually be “creating” the matrix with our incarnation. Yes? No?



MMM – I think I understand but I’m still getting hung up on some terms like “throughout time”. In human terms I know what throughout time means –( EX. Throughout time man has wondered…) man has existed throughout time but we know (in human terms) that is not what the sentence means. The sentence confines time to a known/perceived history of events inclusive of humans. But we cannot project this kind of thought into our matrix because we may not always be human or have any (human) known/understood physical form.

Actually I’m not considering aliens in this idea because I have no concept of these beings so you have to give me a little leeway as anything you could tell me about them would be unverifiable for me (in this existence anyway). I’m just talking about beings that might be inclusive of our own spiritual nature.



Yes I do understand your idea but it offers some limitation which influenced my first post. You see if it all exists and is concurrent then it is a closed system and cannot change. When we put those limitations of very specific locations – those locations cannot be occupied by different incarnations at different times because there is no time – there are only locations and the events occurring in those locations. That is what led me to the idea that we are ‘creating’ new locations, projecting the nature of our events – which adds to the matrix.

Jeannie said ,I understand that based on that premise the idea of simultaneous lives makse sense The simultaneity would be relative to that “completely different spacetime”, not the spacetime in which the current life is being lived (otherwise it could not be simultaneous).

But I’m starting with a different premise – that the “soul” does not come from a different spacetime. It does not come from any spacetime at all. It is inherently independent of any and all spacetimes. It is, in fact, the creator of spacetimes.

Just a matter of different premises, that’s all.

Not necessarily. You see, today you can get a movie on a DVD that has alternate endings. This is a very tiny example of how a matrix can contain alternate probable events which, as you suggest, are 'created' by the participants. (I call it "manifested, not created.")

This is where "infinity" comes in handy and what I mean by a multi-dimensional matrix. There is no limit to the number of alternate event probabilities that can manifest within a given matrix. We are definitely NOT restricted by space or time. The matrix 'expands' according to what is "created" or "manifested" by the inhabitants/participants. It is the participants who manifest the matrix because they are the "thinking centers" and the matrix is a thought created environment.



I'm a little confused by the above statement about limitations, but I agree that we are 'creating' events (locations). All locations are in relation to both the event and the other participants.

That is very possible, and I am in agreement, but each individual 'soul' --free of any space-time-- also has its own unified field which manifests its own space-time matrix.

If a group of individual souls are creating a community outside of this space-time environment, they together will create a GROUP environment with its agreed upon space-time properties in which they will all inhabit.

It also goes away if we simply differeniate between the bodies and the souls. If the bodies are compared to "vehicles" and the souls are compared to "passengers", then it's simply a matter of there not being enough vehicles to accomodate all the passengers.

"Where the passengers came from" is really irrelevant. Just like it is irrelevant to how many passengers can ride in a plane.

So do you and your persona’s have discussions about all of your concurrent incarnations? You see, I don’t understand how your various “split egos” come together in such an intimate way while you are all subjects of very different events in your own individual locations. How do you know they are all YOU or you are part of them? And why do you all need to cooperate – cooperate with what? Do you all get together to determine what incarnation one of you will have next? I’m confused. Actually I’m not even sure how this relates to the philosophical ideas of the matrix?



In human terms – does this mean he is giving life to new and unique “spirits”? If we are eternal what need to we have of such procreation. It seems to me that multiple incarnations for an eternal spirit is a bit redundant.



Please compete this thesis by supplying your supporting arguments – because I can’t see how this fits into the conversation to this point.

I was addressing your inquiry (along with Abra's) about multiple 'egos.'

The splitting is how spirit expands.

My other incarnations are the splitting of my higher self.

My other inner psyche's are confined in my current body and this life only. My body is a matrix with its own unified field and with its own space-time.

Like a cell splits and divides to expand and grow, so do I. I don't consider this to be "procreation." I consider it to be "growth."

(We "cooperate" so we can have inner peace and find balance and clarity.)




I recognize them. That's the only way I can explain it.
Their voice is my voice.

The number cannot be 'supported' but it represents the approximate number of 'human' incarnations emerging from the entity incarnating here.

Forgive me if I’m misunderstanding you. This is a difficult subject to discuss easily, what with the built-in limitations of a natural language. So, keeping that in mind…

I don’t think of “soul” as necessarily having any sort of field. I would view such a field as being a creation of the soul, not an inherent part of the soul. I think of such a field as a sort of “intermediary”. Much as a factory would be created, which would in turn, create uniform automobiles, the field is created, which in turn creates the spacetime matrix (or whatever) with it’s uniform properties.

In other words, if the “but” and the “also” are removed from your statement I quoted, I would consider it an exact description of my view.

It is that “but” and “also” that I’m a little confused about.

I agree.

edit:
Also remember that we have differnt premises regarding the "splitting of souls".

Thank-you for your responses JB. I'm afraid I can't go further for now. I have a ton of studying, but your topic was one of interest to me and I just couldn't pass it up.

I know you well enough and I should have known this would develop into a very thought provoking and time consuming subject. Sorry for my abrupt leave of absence.

I will continue to follow updates to see what other ideas come up.
Be well everyone!

I agree that the 'soul' is the source that manifested the "unified field" which is basically a "body" or sheath for it and it contains its own space-time matrix. I don't understand what your problem is with my "but" and "also." I don't see as how it changes the meaning of what I am saying. But consider them 'removed.'

Yes I believe you have an objection to being part of a larger entity, is that correct?

You want to be completely separate from the one alleged prime source, completely independent. (Just like a rebellious teenager perhaps?.. )

I do understand that. Yet I believe we can have BOTH. You can have both or EITHER. And you can believe both or either. That is the way it is set up. You create your own reality on all levels. You believe what you want in your own private matrix. You can eventually create your own universe and matrix that will house many inhabitants... or not.

I see that larger entity as being me, my higher self, and I see this sort of division and individualization of spirit proceeding to infinity in all directions.

From here in the physical, I see myself to be the "larger entity" or "higher self" to my inner psyches."

While they seem different and individual, they are still part of me and they are like my children... and yet they are more than that. They are also me!

I too have had dreams of out-of-body experiences and an odd assortment of things which may or may not be related to other times or worlds or both. I used to lucid dream, which is another story.

If you start to break down the possibilities of multidimensional existence, the possibilities WITHIN the dimension multiply exponentially. You really don't need a lot of dimensions to create a lot of possibilities. If we throw out all the dimensions where uninteresting events occur and we are just left with the ones which may affect the focus of this thread, certain things come to mind. If time and space are at the bottom of the chart (matrix if you will) then the movement of souls could only be one layer up. A soul could pass as easily (or not) through one dimension as another.

Consider our current four dimensional world as a piece of land where we live and die. All events occur on its two dimensional surface. Add another dimension and the surface becomes a plane within an ocean of unseen creatures and events. Some pass through us and some do not. Like fish in the ocean, some are devoured by larger fish and some are not. Some of us may reincarnate and some may not, at least till a bigger fish comes along.

Eastern religion's view of reincarnation has a theory of us traveling in time gaining from each life. We may start out as a roach and climb up the spiritual ladder to ever higher spiritual beings. The multidimensional ocean I described might be something similar requiring you to be eaten by a bigger fish in order to be swallowed, metaphorically speaking of course.

Yes I believe that we have incarnated through all manner of creatures including earth worms and rocks. I am mainly talking about human incarnations in this thread.

Oh come on Jeannie. Why’d you have to go there?

I’m like a rebellious teenager because I don’t believe what you believe? And I understand that as well.

The main reason I don’t believe that way is simply because it appears to be based on circular dependencies.

The main unanswered question in my mind is: If spirits are created by spirits, then how did the first spirit come into being, and why don’t other spirits come into being via the same means?

The only reasonable explanation I can see for that is the pantheistic one – what appear to be separate spirits are really only “viewpoints” adopted by the one-and-only-spirit. And I acknowledge that as being a perfectly valid premise.

All I’m saying is that I work from a different premise: That all spirits are inherently independent of everything – including other spirits, and that my premise and the pan-theistic premise are mutually exclusive.

I don't see it as spirits creating other spirits. I see it as spirit growing and dividing as a cell grows and divides. I see it as spirit manifesting itself and fracturing itself into parts that are identical to itself to include having a will of their own... should they chose to use it. (they don't have to use it.)



Yes, and they are viewpoints with their own Will. I call them "The eyes of infinity." because they "see" from their own point of view and they are infinite.



I don't see how that is at all possible or plausible. If all spirits are inherently independent, who created them? What would even be the purpose of being completely independent and how did they get to be that way? Are you completely independent? I don't think so.

I do believe that a soul (spirit) can at some point chose to live completely independent of others, creating their own reality, not having to live with others in an agreed upon matrix, but I think that might get kind of lonely.